Could being impaled on a spike be good?

probinson said:

However, if I read into the responses something that was not there, then I apologize for making the wrong assumption, while at the same time being absolutely thrilled to discover that there is no one here that thinks that being impaled on a spike is ever a good thing.

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Apology accepted.

Being impaled on a spike: BAD
Being impaled on a spike, for the sake of God: GOOD
Being impaled on a spike, and good comes out of it: GOOD
Being impaled on a spike, yet praise God or continue in faith: GOOD


peace,
Simon

probinson said:

Of course Romans 8:28 is true.

What Romans 8:28 DOES say is that God works all things together for the good or those that Love Him and are called according to His purpose.

What Romans 8:28 DOES NOT say is that all things that happen to us are good.

The simplest illustration of this is Joseph, who said;

Genesis 50:20 (AMP)
As for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring about that many people should be kept alive, as they are this day.
​

Note that Joseph acknowledges that what his brothers did to him was evil (i.e., not good). But God took that evil thing and used it for immense good.

That's what Romans 8:28 is talking about. It's not talking about some ethereal, undefinable concept called "good" in a world where good is bad, bad is good, up is down and left is right. It's simply saying that God works all things together, good or bad, for the good of those who Love Him and are called according to His purpose.

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My friend, you simply have a way with words. Don't think I have ever read a better post.

The absolutely best line ever:

It's not talking about some ethereal, undefinable concept called "good" in a world where good is bad, bad is good, up is down and left is right.

I don't know how many time I have been told on these boards that God does evil things, but it's not really evil you see, because God is doing it for the 'greater good'. Like Him allowing someone to rape an infant is good. Nothing but confusion and vanity, IMHO. How blind can people be?

Peace...

dkbwarrior said:

I don't know how many time I have been told on these boards that God does evil things, but it's not really evil you see, because God is doing it for the 'greater good'. Like Him allowing someone to rape an infant is good. Nothing but confusion and vanity, IMHO. How blind can people be?

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Can you show me even ONE post where someone has said that "to rape an infant is good"?


peace,
Simon

probinson said:

There is not another topic where Christians spout more holy sounding lip-service than when it comes to martyrdom.

Call me after you've been sawn in two and tell me how "good" it was.

Is it good for a person to be impaled on a spike? Of course not. I can say with absolute certainty that being impaled on a spike is never a "good" thing.

Scripture clearly says it is commendable for a person to bear up under unjust suffering for the sake of God. Read that carefully; the unjust suffering is not good. The person's willingness to endure unjust suffering for the sake of God is what is good.

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Hmmm. The Apostle Paul, while awiting execution (beheading) in Rome, said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain," Phil. 1.21. I thought gain was good--not as good as (by some's estimation) self-serving financial properity and a disease-free life but it is "gain" (biblically).

This post takes a cavalier attitude--"holy sounding lip-service" I think you called it--toward a very serious human tragedy. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe estimates 105,000 Christians are martyred for their faith every year. That's a dozen believers every hour of every day and I think we need to wait and ask them when we get on the other side if it was good or bad before we speak for them.

~Jim

Simon Peter said:

Being impaled on a spike: BAD
Being impaled on a spike, for the sake of God: GOOD
Being impaled on a spike, and good comes out of it: GOOD
Being impaled on a spike, yet praise God or continue in faith: GOOD

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Interesting.

You just listed 3 scenarios where you believe that being impaled on a spike is good. So apparently, my original gut feeling was correct, and you believe that there are scenarios where being impaled on a spike could be a good thing.

I don't.

And that's why I made my post. You seem to believe that if something good results, then the original thing that caused it automatically becomes good.

I don't.

I once sat in a church service where a very sincere man stood up and said something along the lines of, "I just want to praise God for making me wreck my car. Because of that wreck, I was in the hospital for a long time, and I was able to share the Gospel with people I would never had met otherwise." IOW, because something good resulted from his car accident, he surmised that not only was it a "good" thing, but that God actually CAUSED him to do it, as if God reached out of heaven and tossed his car off the road.

This, IMO, is a horrible misinterpretation of Romans 8:28, which says that God works all things together for the good of those that Love Him and are called according to His purpose. A car accident is not a good thing. Period. There simply is no scenario where wrecking your car is "good". But that does not preclude God from working that for good.

Joseph acknowledged that what his brothers did to him was "evil", but God used it for good. That's what Romans 8:28 is talking about. It's not suddenly a "good" thing because something good came from it. It simply means that God used that thing intended for evil for our good instead.

JimB said:

Hmmm. The Apostle Paul, while awiting execution (beheading) in Rome, said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain," Phil. 1.21. I thought gain was good--not as good as (by some's estimation) self-serving financial properity and a disease-free life but it is "gain" (biblically).

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Careful Jim, your agenda is showing again.

No one (except you) is talking about financial prosperity and/or a disease-free life.

JimB said:

This post takes a cavalier attitude--"holy sounding lip-service" I think you called it--toward a very serious human tragedy. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe estimates 105,000 Christians are martyred for their faith every year. That's a dozen believers every hour of every day and I think we need to wait and ask them when we get on the other side if it was good or bad before we speak for them.

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I think it's wonderful that there are people who are willing to die for their faith. I think it's commendable that these people refuse to deny Jesus Christ no matter what the cost. That does not mean that I think their murder is "good". It means I think their unwavering faith is "good".

probinson said:

*****

I think it's wonderful that there are people who are willing to die for their faith. I think it's commendable that these people refuse to deny Jesus Christ no matter what the cost. That does not mean that I think their murder is "good". It means I think their unwavering faith is "good".

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Well said. I agree.

~Jim

BenAdam said:

Maybe sometimes the destruction of the body is a good thing:

1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

(emphasis mine)

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True.

probinson said:

There is not another topic where Christians spout more holy sounding lip-service than when it comes to martyrdom.

Call me after you've been sawn in two and tell me how "good" it was.

Is it good for a person to be impaled on a spike? Of course not. I can say with absolute certainty that being impaled on a spike is never a "good" thing.

Scripture clearly says it is commendable for a person to bear up under unjust suffering for the sake of God. Read that carefully; the unjust suffering is not good. The person's willingness to endure unjust suffering for the sake of God is what is good.

Click to expand...

Lets try to put on our spiritual thinking caps here.

Why did Paul, prior to being fully killed, experience "small killings", and see that grace, and the spreading of the gospel come out of sufferings, and the dying of Jesus?

2 Corinthians 4:10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.

Ok now, here comes a Romans 8:28 experiential explanation...get ready, it was for the gospel, for others.......contrary to the "have it all for me now gospel".



4:15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

So to Paul, it was good!

Be blessed.

Simply Put said:

Does anyone believe the end justifys the means?

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It was a predestined means, that the Christ would suffer.

dkbwarrior said:

My friend, you simply have a way with words. Don't think I have ever read a better post.

The absolutely best line ever:

It's not talking about some ethereal, undefinable concept called "good" in a world where good is bad, bad is good, up is down and left is right.

I don't know how many time I have been told on these boards that God does evil things, but it's not really evil you see, because God is doing it for the 'greater good'. Like Him allowing someone to rape an infant is good. Nothing but confusion and vanity, IMHO. How blind can people be?

Peace...

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Yet, some think all imperfection is always of the devil. Is it?


Exodus 4:11 Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

probinson said:

Interesting.

You just listed 3 scenarios where you believe that being impaled on a spike is good. So apparently, my original gut feeling was correct, and you believe that there are scenarios where being impaled on a spike could be a good thing.

I don't.

And that's why I made my post. You seem to believe that if something good results, then the original thing that caused it automatically becomes good.

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Nope, I did not say that! There you go again making up things that people have not said.

I said very emphatically and clearly so that no one could misunderstand:

"Being impaled on a spike: BAD"

Good things can come from being impaled on a spike, but the original thing (being impaled on a spike) was bad.

I completely agree with what you said about Joseph, and have used that same statement myself when refering to a time when I was beaten up by the police. What they did was wrong, but God meant it for good.

Our focus should be on the positive good things that come out of the bad:

James 1:2-3 NIV
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.


1 Peter 1:6-7 NIV
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
7 These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



Would you change those scriptures to:


Consider it bad, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, but because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance, which is joy, but not pure joy.


In this you half rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



peace,
Simon

Simply Put said:

Early Christians were impaled on spikes, soaked in tar an used for streetlights.

Could this be good and if so, for whom?

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Jesus was impaled with nails and hung on a cross for all to see...

Source Scripture said:

Lets try to put on our spiritual thinking caps here.

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Actually, I wish people would just think, period. I mean, I find it to be a pretty sad commentary on the body of Christ that we can't agree that being impaled on a spike is not a good thing.

Source Scripture said:

Why did Paul, prior to being fully killed, experience "small killings", and see that grace, and the spreading of the gospel come out of sufferings, and the dying of Jesus?

Click to expand...

Holy run-on sentence, Batman! I have no idea what your "question" is here, so I can't address it.

Source Scripture said:

2 Corinthians 4:10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.

Ok now, here comes a Romans 8:28 experiential explanation...get ready, it was for the gospel, for others.......contrary to the "have it all for me now gospel".

Click to expand...

Who's talking about the "have it all for me now Gospel"? Sheesh. Try to pay attention and address what I'm actually saying instead of pulling stuff out of thin air.

Source Scripture said:

4:15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

So to Paul, it was good!

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Hey, you're entitled to believe that being impaled on a spike is "good" if you like, but I believe, and I suspect that Paul would probably agree, that the fact that people were led to the Gospel was the "good" thing. The impaling? Not so much.

So Jesus on a cross is not good, but His willingness to die on a cross? Hmm.

Or tell it to the martyrs in heaven who are eternally rewarded for their faithfulness, that it was bad what happened to them. And of course we see it's bad for them because...well, just can't see it because I'm too busy paying lip-service to what God chose to reveal through the Revelation of His Son.

probinson said:

Actually, I wish people would just think, period. I mean, I find it to be a pretty sad commentary on the body of Christ that we can't agree that being impaled on a spike is not a good thing.



Holy run-on sentence, Batman! I have no idea what your "question" is here, so I can't address it.



Who's talking about the "have it all for me now Gospel"? Sheesh. Try to pay attention and address what I'm actually saying instead of pulling stuff out of thin air.



Hey, you're entitled to believe that being impaled on a spike is "good" if you like, but I believe, and I suspect that Paul would probably agree, that the fact that people were led to the Gospel was the "good" thing. The impaling? Not so much.

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But do you see how the spike, the death, was good? Paul did. He saw that his sufferings, worked life in others, isn't the spike good?

2 corinthians 4:12 So death is at work in us, but life in you

Simon Peter said:

Nope, I did not say that! There you go again making up things that people have not said.

I said very emphatically and clearly so that no one could misunderstand:

"Being impaled on a spike: BAD"

Good things can come from being impaled on a spike, but the original thing (being impaled on a spike) was bad.

I completely agree with what you said about Joseph, and have used that same statement myself when refering to a time when I was beaten up by the police. What they did was wrong, but God meant it for good.

Our focus should be on the positive good things that come out of the bad:

James 1:2-3 NIV
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.


1 Peter 1:6-7 NIV
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
7 These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



Would you change those scriptures to:


Consider it bad, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, but because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance, which is joy, but not pure joy.


In this you half rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



peace,
Simon

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Good post.

Simon Peter said:

Nope, I did not say that! There you go again making up things that people have not said.

I said very emphatically and clearly so that no one could misunderstand:

"Being impaled on a spike: BAD"

Good things can come from being impaled on a spike, but the original thing (being impaled on a spike) was bad.

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Well, I would absolutely agree with that.

But that seems contrary to what you said. Here it is again for your reference;
Here you've listed 3 scenarios where you say that "being impaled on a spike" is good. I think being impaled on a spike is BAD. Period.

So I might summarize by saying;

Simon Peter said:

I completely agree with what you said about Joseph, and have used that same statement myself when refering to a time when I was beaten up by the police. What they did was wrong, but God meant it for good.

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Agreed.

Simon Peter said:

Our focus should be on the positive good things that come out of the bad:

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Eureeka! I've been saying that very thing for almost 7 years on this forum!

I'm not sure why you think I'd like to change scriptures that I have absolutely no disagreement with.

Source Scripture said:

But do you see how the spike, the death, was good? Paul did. He saw that his sufferings, worked life in others, isn't the spike good?

2 corinthians 4:12 So death is at work in us, but life in you

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If you think the spike is such a good thing, then by all means, don't let me stop you from falling on a spike.

Seriously. This is exactly what I meant when I said "holy-sounding lip service".