Christians are terrorists according to the US goverment!

CounselorForChrist

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---edit---
Forgot what I originally posted, its not worth it. Lets just stick to the topic at hand.

The bill is here (may crash browser becaues it so big):
Read The Bill: S. 1867 - GovTrack.us

After I read the full bill, which took awhile, you are right there is nothing that targets christians per say in the bill. But like anything else the bill can be abused and its power used to target people if they wanted to. Now as an athiest all you see is "Technically" its not worded that way. Instead of seeing that the wording matters very much in terms of how they can abuse this bill.

Want more proof? Heres 221,000 results reagarding the bill and christianity:
Google

Heres another 252,000 results calling it dangerous:
Google


Heck heres a video about it (theres just under 2,000 videos about it):
S 1867 Most Dangerous Bill Since Patriot Act [2011.12.05] - YouTube

Does this bill effect an athiest? Not as much, so obviously you have no need to care. Did you know among other things it basically allows sadomy and inappropriate behavior with animals? I have nothing more to say really on this topic, not to the atheists at least. They want their rights as americans, but seem ok that christian rights can be trampled. And yes I am making a general statement here, not about the bill.

What I dislike about atheists is how they think christianity is somehow being forced upon them. Therefor they attack christians often. This is a free country, no one is forcing you to do anything. If anything its working backwards now. Christian rights are being removed from day to day life. No more prayer in school, no more ten commandments in courts. Heck we have become so super-sensitive that people don't want to say Merry Christmas as it might offend someone.

I could stir the pot myself by saying maybe you don't like seeing the 10 commandments in court is because you feel guilt by God for your actions that are against the commandments. But of course most atheists never admit that. If you don't like religion in general feel free to move to another country. After all the founding fathers built this country on christianity.

And yes I know atheist don't believe thats true. And no I don't care about your supposed proof that its not true. Your allowed to have your own opinion and lie to yourself all you want. From now on I will ignore anything that I find to be ignorant.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Oh well I cut it short. I don't care what you think or say. Not when your here to cause trouble. Case in point the fact that some atheist (I assume you) added a tag to this topic that says "boohoo! i'm a viticim". Yes, your not stirring the pot, your obviously here to be friendly and learn about Christianity. <---sarcasm

The only person trying to cause trouble here is you.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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Basically, if you're a legal resident, you're fine.

Which is where S. 1698, the Enemy Expatriation Act, comes in. The EEA would allow the gov't to strip American citizens of their citizenship.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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I will say though that I'm quite a bit sick of Christians whining about persecution in this country when they've persecuted non-Christians (and even other Christians) almost since our founding.

I find it interesting that if S. 1867 was specifically labeling all Muslims or all Atheists terrorists, the Christians would not only not be upset about it, they'd be PRAISING it.
 
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The Paul

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Again I have to ask why are so many athiests here? How are christians suppose to talk about things while these guys are making comments to stir a the pot into chaos? And whats sad is I see to many take their sides as christians. Which is exatly what they want.

With that I should mention I am all for if they legitamitly ask questions because they want to be a christian. But I've yet to see an athiest actually show any real "want" when it comes to this subject.

Oh boo hoo. Whenever you post something totally insane and paranoid all those nasty atheists call you out on you paranoia.

Also, Christians call you out on your paranoia.

You're the only sane one left, yeah?

True there are some who are fanatical or almost cult like about it. Especially those false prophets who claim to know the worlds end date.
But it does say in the bible we should rejoice in his return. I look forward to it. I'm tired of living in a life where people can be so.....non human. Give me heaven and the new earth. No more sin! Sounds great to me!

Hey, you don't want people thinking you're nutty, don't tell 'em about how we should all be looking forward to the end of the world. Simple.
 
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The Paul

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Theres no reason for an athiests to come into a topic about gays (for instance) and point out christians are wrong because gays are born that way.

Sure there is. You might want to wallow in prejudice and hatred and tell yourself it's righteousness, but the rest of us have an obvious interest in not allowing that thinking to perpetuate unchallenged.
 
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The Paul

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What I dislike about atheists is how they think christianity is somehow being forced upon them.

Try to think through what followed:

This is a free country, no one is forcing you to do anything.

So no one is forcing anyone to do anything. No one wants to force Christianity on the atheists, they're just mean, picking fights, stirring up trouble for no reason.

Christian rights are being removed from day to day life. No more prayer in school, no more ten commandments in courts.

And then you immediately go on to complain that Christians have lost their "right" to force atheists (and minority religions) to observe their religion.
 
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Jase

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If you don't like religion in general feel free to move to another country. After all the founding fathers built this country on christianity.

And yes I know atheist don't believe thats true. And no I don't care about your supposed proof that its not true. Your allowed to have your own opinion and lie to yourself all you want. From now on I will ignore anything that I find to be ignorant.
You're being rather abrasive xFreak. The Founding fathers did not build this country on Christianity, they specifically said so. Most of the Founders were Deistic or Unitarian "Christian". They would be completely rejected as "True Christians" by most people on this board. Jefferson hated absolutely everything about the supernatural side of Christianity. He considered Jesus' divinity and virgin birth ridiculous myths on par with Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. He considered Revelation the ravings of a maniac. He called Christianity a religion of half fools and half hypocrites. And he said the Gospels were works of ignorance, fabrication and superstition. He hated so much of the Bible he created his own and removed all the supernatural references, leaving only Jesus' moral code.

You can reject all this if you want, but then I guess the question should be why are you wasting your time here if you're not interested in discussion?
 
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Jase

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So whos causing trouble again? Lets face it, your here to troll. Sadly this site allows sections for you to talk though which to me is a horrbile idea. Why is it you rarley see atheists at atheists based forums? They only ever seem to go to forums/sites where they can complain and cause trouble. Again I say.... whos REALLY causing trouble here? ^.^

There are lots of atheist based forums. I'm a long standing member at 3 of them and I'm not an atheist.

I imagine the reason many of them like to frequent boards like this is for intellectual stimulation through discussion of opposing viewpoints. Being on a board where everyone agrees with you isn't a whole lot of fun. It's just a place for everyone to pat each other on the back.

And seeing as you're new here, I will point out that this board used to be even more accepting of atheists, liberals, etc. than it is now. There used to be a General Apologetics forum which allowed pretty intense debates on the existence of God, Christian theology, etc. between atheists and Christians. This board has become more and more Fundamentalist/Evangelical focused over the years to the point where most of the good posters of years past have quit or been kicked off for not agreeing with the Conservative party line. As someone who has been here 9 years, let me just say this board is and was much better with more people with opposing viewpoints.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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Did you know among other things it basically allows sadomy and inappropriate behavior with animals?

*spits coke* WHAT?! You can't be serious!

Christian rights are being removed from day to day life. No more prayer in school, no more ten commandments in courts. Heck we have become so super-sensitive that people don't want to say Merry Christmas as it might offend someone.

1) Prayer was never removed from school. School-sponsored prayer was removed from school. But prayer itself is still allowed and even protected.
2) A huge statue of the Ten Commandments don't belong in courthouses.
3) Who cares about "Merry Christmas"? "Happy Holidays" INCLUDES Christmas.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Wow the toppic suddenly has like 20 replies since that last post! :D


I will say though that I'm quite a bit sick of Christians whining about persecution in this country when they've persecuted non-Christians (and even other Christians) almost since our founding.
I will admit, we christians do not have it bad at all here persicution wise. In other countries we get killed often. Here we just get arguuments, so we shouldn't complain really. But it also doens't mean we should remain 100% silent.

I may be poor, but it doesn't mean I won't complain because there are even worse off people in other countries. Everyone needs help.

I find it interesting that if S. 1867 was specifically labeling all Muslims or all Atheists terrorists, the Christians would not only not be upset about it, they'd be PRAISING it.
Actually counter to what some atheists are saying they think I am. I would be 100% upset if it was labeled like that. Any christian who isn't upset by that would be making the argument null and void by sayings it ok for an Atheist to be labeled terroist but not a christian.

I'm all for equal rights. Actually while I may not have said it yet, I do feel bad that atheists feel thumped by christians. I know in the bible belt christians can be down right annoying about their beliefs. Which is not fair to anyone else. When in public I do force my beliefs on anyone because this is a free country.

You're the only sane one left, yeah?
Yes I am! My tight little white jacket agrees with me! ^_^

And then you immediately go on to complain that Christians have lost their "right" to force atheists (and minority religions) to observe their religion.
Well if you read my profile I openly admit I suck at wording things compared to what I am thinking in my head. For this I am sorry. I don't want to force anything on atheists. I don't want you to observe my religion because its not fair to you. BUT... its a complicated subject. I wouldn't go to to China and tell them "You need to change your focus on Buddhism because I am a christian!".

I guess I just don't like having whats always exisited be changed. On that same note I must accept change does happen though.

You're being rather abrasive xFreak.
Yes I am. I've said I have nothing against atheist. The only time they upset me is how they choose to go about things when it comes to stuff like this. I point to your statement below:

You can reject all this if you want, but then I guess the question should be why are you wasting your time here if you're not interested in discussion?
The same could be said of an atheist. They reject christianity, yet choose to waste their time here on a christian forum. And as for me. This is a christian forum, I am here to talk about my religion. Not have it questioned and bashed by those who should be doing more important things in life.

This is why SOOO many people over they years say that christians should avoid forums or places where people will clash because the ending is always the same. A stale mate. But if anything I am stubborn like that. I refuse to not go to a forum just because others want to be just as stubborn. Actually maybe that is the answer to all this.

Stubborn christians, atheists...whomever will go to these forums because they believe what they do so badly that they aren't smart enough to just leave it alone. lol ^_^

I imagine the reason many of them like to frequent boards like this is for intellectual stimulation through discussion of opposing viewpoints. Being on a board where everyone agrees with you isn't a whole lot of fun. It's just a place for everyone to pat each other on the back.

And seeing as you're new here, I will point out that this board used to be even more accepting of atheists, liberals, etc. than it is now. There used to be a General Apologetics forum which allowed pretty intense debates on the existence of God, Christian theology, etc. between atheists and Christians. This board has become more and more

Fundamentalist/Evangelical focused over the years to the point where most of the good posters of years past have quit or been kicked off for not agreeing with the Conservative party line. As someone who has been here 9 years, let me just say this board is and was much better with more people with opposing viewpoints.
I agree. I do like the stimulation of talking. Although it does bore after awhile becaues its usually the same thing over and over and over. The forum I was at which I shall now name:
Armageddon Online

It claimed to be a free forum for all. But it was mainly run by atheists. Christians got smashed into oblivion. Its why I evetually left. As mentioned in previous topics they went to far and turned it beyond personal.

I'm glad this forum changed for the better. It seems like it was like taht other forum I used to go to. I think thats why I was just a lurker here for many years, I seen to much fighting going on. But now it seems to serve a better purpose for christians trying to seeks answers and learn. Thats my main appeal of it. I will try to avoid the sections that allow atheist thought because I can see already theres to much clashing.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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Actually counter to what some atheists are saying they think I am. I would be 100% upset if it was labeled like that. Any christian who isn't upset by that would be making the argument null and void by sayings it ok for an Atheist to be labeled terroist but not a christian.

I'm all for equal rights. Actually while I may not have said it yet, I do feel bad that atheists feel thumped by christians. I know in the bible belt christians can be down right annoying about their beliefs. Which is not fair to anyone else. When in public I do force my beliefs on anyone because this is a free country.

And Muslims?
 
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BleedingHeart

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---edit---
Forgot what I originally posted, its not worth it. Lets just stick to the topic at hand.

The bill is here (may crash browser becaues it so big):
Read The Bill: S. 1867 - GovTrack.us

After I read the full bill, which took awhile, you are right there is nothing that targets christians per say in the bill. But like anything else the bill can be abused and its power used to target people if they wanted to. Now as an athiest all you see is "Technically" its not worded that way. Instead of seeing that the wording matters very much in terms of how they can abuse this bill.

Want more proof? Heres 221,000 results reagarding the bill and christianity:
Google

Heres another 252,000 results calling it dangerous:
Google


Heck heres a video about it (theres just under 2,000 videos about it):
S 1867 Most Dangerous Bill Since Patriot Act [2011.12.05] - YouTube

Does this bill effect an athiest? Not as much, so obviously you have no need to care. Did you know among other things it basically allows sadomy and inappropriate behavior with animals? I have nothing more to say really on this topic, not to the atheists at least. They want their rights as americans, but seem ok that christian rights can be trampled. And yes I am making a general statement here, not about the bill.

What I dislike about atheists is how they think christianity is somehow being forced upon them. Therefor they attack christians often. This is a free country, no one is forcing you to do anything. If anything its working backwards now. Christian rights are being removed from day to day life. No more prayer in school, no more ten commandments in courts. Heck we have become so super-sensitive that people don't want to say Merry Christmas as it might offend someone.

I could stir the pot myself by saying maybe you don't like seeing the 10 commandments in court is because you feel guilt by God for your actions that are against the commandments. But of course most atheists never admit that. If you don't like religion in general feel free to move to another country. After all the founding fathers built this country on christianity.

And yes I know atheist don't believe thats true. And no I don't care about your supposed proof that its not true. Your allowed to have your own opinion and lie to yourself all you want. From now on I will ignore anything that I find to be ignorant.

[cracks knuckles]

1. I like how you say it would make sodomy legal even though it already is, by both gay and straight people.

2. "What I dislike about atheists is how they think christianity is somehow being forced upon them."
And in the same sentence you say you support prayer in schools.

3. "Heck we have become so super-sensitive that people don't want to say Merry Christmas as it might offend someone."
I've seen some stores do it anyway and no one says anything. What you have to understand, but probably won't, is that it isn't about not offending someone. It's about covering all the bases so that everyone feels welcome.

4. "If you don't like religion in general feel free to move to another country."
Yeah because no other countries have religions except for the U.S., right? Besides, I don't hate religion. Just nonsense.

5. "After all the founding fathers built this country on christianity."
Really? Which aspect of the Bible makes an account for anything we find in the Bill of Rights? I'm curious because I've been told that claim seven times already and I've yet to get any kind of elaboration.
 
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The Paul

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Well if you read my profile I openly admit I suck at wording things compared to what I am thinking in my head. For this I am sorry. I don't want to force anything on atheists. I don't want you to observe my religion because its not fair to you. BUT... its a complicated subject. I wouldn't go to to China and tell them "You need to change your focus on Buddhism because I am a christian!".

Your problem isn't that you worded things poorly. Someone better at playing word games might have tried to make their contradiction a little less obvious, but I think it's too glaring for any amount of clever rephrasing to have hidden it.

1)You said that atheists are complaining about nothing, that no one is trying to force Christianity on them.
2)You complained that schools can not force children to engage in Christian prayers.

The fact that the second point followed the first so closely is poor writing, but the core problem is that the ideas you are trying to express are incoherent. No skill with words can fix that for you.
 
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Rajni

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1. Got a link?
2. Did you do ANY research on this?

Dude! Like CHILL OUT! I have heard similar stuff and I have yet to find any proof. I recall hearing here on this thread and elsewhere on the internet the rumor of section 1032 taking our rights away. That is the furthest from the truth.



Read that, then search for it online.
And the next time you start hollering "the sky is falling!", DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST! PLEASE?!?!?!?! :tutu:
Amen. I've been hearing for decades about how the sky is falling
and have yet to hear the "thud" when it supposedly hits the
ground. I've stopped listening for it -- God is in control. :)




.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Which is where S. 1698, the Enemy Expatriation Act, comes in. The EEA would allow the gov't to strip American citizens of their citizenship.

I didn't know about that. What are the conditions for that to happen?
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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I didn't know about that. What are the conditions for that to happen?

Same as they usually are. Govtrack summarizes it as, "A bill to add engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States to the list of acts for which United States nationals would lose their nationality."

I'm still combing through the text of the bill.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Same as they usually are. Govtrack summarizes it as, "A bill to add engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States to the list of acts for which United States nationals would lose their nationality."

I'm still combing through the text of the bill.

OK, so you have to actively be involved in hostilities. That's not brilliant, but generally everyone is still safe then.
 
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BleedingHeart

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"Usually I ignore this question"
Not surprised. So has everyone else I asked.

"because I see what the atheists do."
Nothing?

Okay good you showed me a link.
I won't deny the Founders were Christians (for the sake of argument). I also won't deny that this is a Christian nation in that most people here are Christians. But some Christian have gotten it into their heads that they can do what they want and treat the Constitution however they want BECAUSE they are Christian, which the Founders would NOT agree with.
That misconception is even mentioned in the article you showed me (though naturally it's not considered abuse).

"Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office."

This is after the Constitution explicitly said that there would be NO religious test for public office. That to me doesn't speak "we're a Christian nation." That to me speaks "we ignore the Constitution when it comes to people we don't like" which has been par for the course.

And you still did not answer the question I asked. I asked you what Biblical verses account for the Bill of Rights. What you showed me, as people often do, was that many people thought their rights came from God. Where is the Biblical evidence? It might be there but I never hear about it. All I ever hear are vague references to "Christian values", and when I ask people to elaborate, they go right off the grid.
 
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