Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...would you believe that the ark of Noah was a copy of the Bridal chambers?? And if it is, then it would have to be a picture of the rapture of the bride...
Note that just as God didn't have to rapture Noah into heaven to keep him from his wrath, so he won't have to rapture us into heaven to keep us from his wrath.
Noah was commanded to make extensive preparations on the earth in order to avoid God's wrath; he had to build a gigantic ark 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 4 1/2 stories high (Genesis 6:15), and he had to store up enough food to keep himself, 7 others in his family (Genesis 7:7), and every kind of animal alive in the ark (Genesis 6:19) for the 12 months and 10 days they would all remain in the ark (Genesis 7:11, 8:13-17) and until they could grow more food on the destroyed earth after the flood.
I believe Isaiah 26:20-21 could be a command to those of us Christians still alive on the earth right before the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out (Revelation 16). The 7 vials aren't directed at us Christians, so that our and our families' entering our "chambers" before the 7 vials and "shutting the doors" about us (Isaiah 26:20-21) could protect us in a way like Noah and his family's entering the ark before the flood and the "shutting" of "the door of the ark" protected them (Genesis 6:16, 7:16).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...John 14:2-3 - (2) "In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? (3) And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."...
Note that no verse says that the rapture will take anyone any higher than the clouds.
Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3). Note that he didn't say he would come back before the tribulation or that he would take us into heaven.
Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3). Note that he says we will be where he is after he comes again. He doesn't say he will turn around and go back into heaven. And indeed we will be where he is after he comes again: on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).
I believe Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you," to show why he was going, not why he was coming back, and to show that he still has great and eternal plans for us in New Jerusalem, where the Father will dwell with us after the millennium: "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God" (Revelation 21:2-3).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...notice that the Lord descends Himself. He brings no one down with Him...
Note that at the rapture Jesus will come back "with" all his saints: "Even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" (1 Thessalonians 4:14); "I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23), "to the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints" (1 Thessalonians 3:13).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...Post trib believers say that He will send His angels to gather His elect...
Note that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 doesn't say that Jesus himself will catch us up. Jesus will catch us up by sending his angels: "Then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect" (Mark 13:27).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...This would be the second coming, not the rapture...
I believe all of the following passages speak of the same rapture at the same coming:
"I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3).
"The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1).
"The Son of man coming in the clouds... with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect" (Matthew 24:30-31).
"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord... with the trump of God... shall be caught up together" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).
"They that are Christ's at his coming... at the last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:23, 52).
I believe the doctrine of a pre-trib rapture would require that the 2nd coming be a 3rd coming (Hebrews 9:28), that the last trumpet be the 9th from last (1 Corinthians 15:52; Revelation 8:6; Matthew 24:31), and that the 1st resurrection be the 2nd (Revelation 20:4-6), so that it would not really make sense of scripture.
I believe the pre-trib doctrine is a false hope held by some unwilling to endure the sound doctrine (2 Timothy 4:3-5) that we Christians must "endure to the end" in the tribulation (Matthew 24:13) with "patience and faith" (Revelation 13:7-10; 14:12-13).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
...His holy ones have obeyed Him and separated themselves from the world, but the foolish were caught off guard and messing around in the cares of the world. This is why Jesus tells them that He doesn't know them or where they came from. They must now enter into the seven year tribulation and purify themselves. They will still be saved...
In the parable of the 10 virgins, some believe the wise virgins must be taken in a pre-trib rapture. But note that the door is closed at Jesus' coming (Matthew 25:10, compare Luke 13:24-28), which Jesus had just finished saying would be "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31). There's no 3rd coming of Jesus.
What does this mean? "While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept" (Matthew 25:5).
I believe Christians will either be ready for Jesus' 2nd coming or they will be lost, as the 5 foolish virgins are lost: "The bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (Matthew 25:10-12); "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out" (Luke 13:23-28).
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:21-23).
Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
..."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation....
Note that Revelation 3:10 doesn't promise the church a pre-trib rapture, but simply promised the 1st century church of Philadelphia that it would be kept from the hour of trial, which was probably a great persecution in their own time, and they weren't raptured.