Re-Evaluating Rapture Theology

newcreature777 · Feb 1, 2012

The Bride of Christ...

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from, Greek, ek- out of) The (hour, Greek, hora- season) of (temptation, Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith…

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride of Christ, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as “out of” (Greek word, ek) Strong’s Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Saved Now, and From (out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Refernce:
raptureprophecy.net

Kind Regards,

zeke37 · Feb 1, 2012

newcreature777 said:
Those in the Ark were Taken- taken up, as we are Taken- taken up-Rapture...Deuteronomy 4:20, Acts 1:2, Acts 1:9, Acts 1:11

Deut4:20 no pre trib rapture

20But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

the "iron furnace" is "Egypt", and this speaks of ancient Israel.

Acts1:2 no pre trib rapture

2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

this is Jesus, not the "church"

Acts1:11 no pre trib rapture

11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

so this actually teaches against the classic pre trib rapture view.
when the Lord returns, He will return the same way as He left.

and according to Mat24.
the ones that were "taken" were not on the ark.
the ones "taken" were "taken" in the flood.
they "knew not" until the flood came and took them all away.
the ones that were left, were left working for the Lord.

don't be taken in Satan's oncoming flood

Genesis 8:4 as Noahs Ark Rested on the Mountains after (the 7th month) and the Bride of Christ Rapture to the New Jerusalem (Heaven) above the Wrath that's in (the 7 year) Tribulation. As the Righteous in Noahs ark were Lifted up above, over all the Tribulation- Wrath on Earth was under their feet. Also in the Rapture- We are Lifted up above, over all the Tribulation- Wrath on Earth (under us) Psalm 47:3 (under our feet) Psalm 47:1-9

but the Mat24 telling is not that at all.
the ones on the ark were not taken,
they were left to continue working for the Lord.

the rest were taken in the flood.

Read the Holy Bible king james version (KJV) The proper word is eagles be gathered together Luke 17:37

Luke 17

26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, [SIZE=+0]until[/SIZE] the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot's wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Sodom was "taken" in destruction...
Lot was "left" alive.

the eagles gather for the "feast of the Lord"...
they eat the flesh of men.

Exodus 19:4
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

yet those ancient Israelites were not "raptured",
so figuratively bringing them to Himself is not equal to rapture.

Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

anti-pre trib rapture.
the ones that will not be weary, will be the faithfull to the Lord.
they are the ones who will work in the trib time,
instead of being taken in the flood of lies that comes from the dragon's mouth

pre trib is a lie. it teaches you to accept the first one claiming to be Messiah..
but biblically, the false Christ comes first to seduce us if possible.

Those Left Behind experienced the Wrath (Tribulation) Almighty God rescued the Righteous (Noah, and his family! Lot, and his family) prior to his Judgment (Wrath) on those Left Behind.

first off, the wrath of God is NOT the tribulation.
proof....the children of God are called out of Babylon AFTER Babylon falls
yet BEFORE the plagues are sent.
see Rev18

Noah was LEFT, the ones that knew not and were giving and taken in marriage were "taken"

this is real easy stuff. simply read Mat24

One shall be taken (Rapture) and the other Left Behind Luke 17:35-36

no

Luke 17:35-36
Two women shall be grinding together (Working) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

36Two men shall be in the field (World) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

Just as us Saved, and Sealed Born Again (New Creatures 2 Corinthians 5:17)Rapture (lifteth up) before the Tribulation (Wrath)

nope...here... let's look at Mat24

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Llifteth up the meek: as Now, and when we Rapture…

He casteth the wicked down to the ground) as the Meek, are (lifteth up (Rapture)

Psalm 147:6
The LORD (lifteth up the meek) he casteth the wicked down to the ground.

lol

One taken (Rapture) the other (Left Behind in Tribulation)

nope...one taken in the flood, one left behind working for the Lord

Don’t Be Left Behind…

make sure you are left behind.

Taken- taken up

to be taken, is to be deceived

newcreature777 · Feb 1, 2012

It’s all as a Divine Miracle, and John walked out of Earth Time into Eternity…

After all Earth time is not real time for Eternity is far beyond (For ever, and ever) Eternity is beyond the bubbles (Layers) That ripple like chapters, and pages in the process of Earth time…

After some thought someone might say John Time Traveled, and what John did was step out of the Earth Time Dimension into Eternity where he walked with God. John basically watched the Rapture, and was shown things to come as ripples in time or as chapters in the Divine Process that is already written, as foretold in the Holy Bible.

John was Caught up Revelation 1:10

Notice: John was in Spirit in the kingdom of Almighty God, and was with Jesus Christ! It’s as he Watched the end from the beginning as Shared in Isaiah 46:10

Revelation 1:10
(I was in the Spirit) on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a (trumpet)

John was already caught up in the Spirit, and heard the (Trumpet) as he was called up (Taken up) into Heaven with Almighty God as shared in the Scripture Revelation 1:10

and After he looked (Watched) the experience in Revelation 4:1 After this I looked(a door was opened in heaven) Trumpet (Come up hither) The Rapture…

It’s as if John was already called up into Heaven as shared in Revelation 1:10 and he Watched the Rapture experience as shared in Revelation 4:1 when the Trump of God is Blown, and The Door is Open in Heaven, and John (bare record) wrote (shared) Revelation 1:1-2 all he saw when John returned to the point in time where his body was in Earth time.

The Open DOOR Rapture

Revelation 4:1
After this (I looked) and, behold, a (door) was (opened in heaven) and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a (trumpet) talking with me. which said(Come up hither) and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notice: The Door is open in Revelation 4:1, and Matthew 25:10 shares the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) came,and those who were Ready (Awake) (Wise)Lamps Lit, and filled with oil (Holy Ghost) went in with him to the Marriage, and (then the Door was shut) and those Left Behind after the Rapture experience the Wrath (Tribulation)

Love His Appearing! One who WATCHES, and Loves his appearing…

Dear Saints don’t let no one or anything keep you from WATCHING, and Loving the Appearing of KING JESUS CHRIST, THE BLESSED HOPE (RAPTURE) keep your special crown, and always WATCH, and Love his Appearing…

WATCHING…

Watching for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to come Rapture us up into the New Jerusalem (Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (Watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15.

We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing. Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a special crown.

The crown of righteousness is shared in the Scripture 2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a (Crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day (Rapture) and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

*To read more about The Bride of Christ. Visit RaptureProphecy.com, and read the webpages called (The Bride of Christ, and Rapture of his Bride) on RaptureProphecy.com

Kind Regards,

zeke37 · Feb 1, 2012

newcreature777 said:
The Bride of Christ...

the Bride of Christ will be gathered after the tribulation of those days,
at the last day,
just after the dead in Christ are brought from heaven
and raised here.
1Thes4

pre trib is a lie.

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from, Greek, ek- out of) The (hour, Greek, hora- season) of (temptation, Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride of Christ, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as out of (Greek word, ek) Strongs Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Saved Now, and From (out of) The Tribulation.

being kept from the temptation hour, is simply to not be tempted.
how? by knowing the Satan comes first, pretrnding to be Jesus.

knowing that makes it hard for him to tempt you during the hour of temptation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Refernce:
raptureprophecy.net

Kind Regards,

that does not mean a pre trib rapture.
pre trib is a lie.

newcreature777 · Feb 1, 2012

Soon the World is going to experience the Rapture, as it's ushered on the doorstep of humanity...

In a moment, In the Twinkling of an Eye, The Rapture will be an Earthly fact of Living Reality...

*Notice the Door is open (Rapture) in Revelation 4:1, and Matthew 25:10 shares the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) came, and those who were Ready (Awake) (Wise) Lamps Lit, and filled with oil went in with him to the Marriage, and then (the Door was shut.) and those Left Behind entered the Tribulation!

Marriage for his son, The Rapture...

Matthew 22:1-14

1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, 2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a (marriage for his son) 3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Wise, Rapture

Rapture , Open Door Revelation 4:1

The Bride of Christ Rapture in the open DOOR Revelation 4:1 and this is The Bride of Christ in Heaven after the Rapture singing the New Song Revelation 5:9

Songs of deliverance, Selah. Now with our Wonderful King Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and as the new Song (The Bride of Christ Song) Psalm 32:7, Psalm 40:3, Psalm 59:16 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, as shared in the Powerful Scripture (Revelation 5:9 The Bride of Christ Song)
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The Tribulation...

Them that were bidden to the wedding: and (they would not come) Matthew 22:3

When he will return from the wedding...

Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Reference:
raptureprophecy.com

zeke37 · Feb 1, 2012

newcreature777 said:
Its all as a Divine Miracle, and John walked out of Earth Time into Eternity

After all Earth time is not real time for Eternity is far beyond (For ever, and ever) Eternity is beyond the bubbles (Layers) That ripple like chapters, and pages in the process of Earth time

After some thought someone might say John Time Traveled, and what John did was step out of the Earth Time Dimension into Eternity where he walked with God. John basically watched the Rapture, and was shown things to come as ripples in time or as chapters in the Divine Process that is already written, as foretold in the Holy Bible.

John was Caught up Revelation 1:10

caught up is "harpazo" and means "seized"
up is just not written in the manuscripts.

Notice: John was in Spirit in the kingdom of Almighty God, and was with Jesus Christ! Its as he Watched the end from the beginning as Shared in Isaiah 46:10

Revelation 1:10
(I was in the Spirit) on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a (trumpet)

John was already caught up in the Spirit, and heard the (Trumpet) as he was called up (Taken up) into Heaven with Almighty God as shared in the Scripture Revelation 1:10

and After he looked (Watched) the experience in Revelation 4:1 After this I looked(a door was opened in heaven) Trumpet (Come up hither) The Rapture

no...the scripture states that John was...not the church.
John does not equal the church.
John was taken out of time, and was allowed to see the end days.
the visions are seperate...the one in chapter 1 and now the one in chapter 4.

1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

so, just John, and he sees a second vision/prophesy

Its as if John was already called up into Heaven as shared in Revelation 1:10 and he Watched the Rapture experience as shared in Revelation 4:1 when the Trump of God is Blown, and The Door is Open in Heaven, and John (bare record) wrote (shared) Revelation 1:1-2 all he saw when John returned to the point in time where his body was in Earth time.

The Open DOOR Rapture

Revelation 4:1
After this (I looked) and, behold, a (door) was (opened in heaven) and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a (trumpet) talking with me. which said(Come up hither) and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

no...just John.

Notice: The Door is open in Revelation 4:1, and Matthew 25:10 shares the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) came,and those who were Ready (Awake) (Wise)Lamps Lit, and filled with oil (Holy Ghost) went in with him to the Marriage, and (then the Door was shut) and those Left Behind after the Rapture experience the Wrath (Tribulation)

but you are wrong about that. i already proved it.
those that marry Him, were left.

those that don't get to marry Him, will have went away
and try to trim their lamps last second.

they do not remain.
they will be taken in the flood that consumes the world, but for the elect.

Love His Appearing! One who WATCHES, and Loves his appearing
you should study up on His "appearing" because it is the same as His Coming.

even in 1Thes4, the "seizing" to Christ is called His Coming
and it happens after the dead in Christ are brought from heaven and raised here.

Dear Saints dont let no one or anything keep you from WATCHING, and Loving the Appearing of KING JESUS CHRIST, THE BLESSED HOPE (RAPTURE) keep your special crown, and always WATCH, and Love his Appearing

WATCHING

the "blessed Hope" is not a pre trib rapture. lol.
watching, includes the signs of the time...
so we will not be unaware during "that day" as other "will be".

Watching for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to come Rapture us up into the New Jerusalem (Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (Watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15.

but not pre trib

We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing. Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a special crown.

the rapture occures after the tribulation of those days. Mar13

The crown of righteousness is shared in the Scripture 2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a (Crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day (Rapture) and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

but not pre trib style.

*To read more about The Bride of Christ. Visit RaptureProphecy.com, and read the webpages called (The Bride of Christ, and Rapture of his Bride) on RaptureProphecy.com

Kind Regards,

no thanks...that site doesn't measure up at all.
pure bunk....and outright lies

ex-pre tribber.

newcreature777 · Feb 1, 2012

The Born Again (New Creatures) who Rapture will be Caught up into the clouds with Jesus Christ, and those Left Behind will Experience The Wrath, Tribulation (Fire)

Delivered, Saved Now with King Jesus Christ, and From (out of) The Tribulation (Wrath) to come.

(Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, (we shall be saved from wrath through him)

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven,whom he raised from the dead,even (Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
For God hath not appointed us to wrath) but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

2 Chronicles 36:16
But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

God Reserves Wrath For His Enemies...

Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Psalms 11:6
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Psalm 21:9
Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

Psalm 79:6
Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Interesting to know the furnace was also heated seven times more- Read the Scripture Daniel 3:19, and Isaiah 30:26 shares the light of the sun shall be sevenfold.

Isaiah 30:26
(Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun)

(and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold)

(as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound)

Ezekiel 20:47
And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree (the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein)

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Malachi 4:1
(For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven) and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and (the day that cometh shall burn them up) saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

The Tribulation after the Rapture is a time of great Wrath (Fire) as shared in the Scriptures 2 Peter 3:3-7, and 2 Peter 3:10-12. The Sealed 144,000 in the Tribulation can be seen as Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego who were not harmed in the Fire.

Notice: in the Tribulation (Heat) as shared in Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, (neither thirst any more) (neither shall the sun light on them, nor any (heat) The Tribulation Saints who get saved in the Tribulation) Also the scripture Revelation 16:8-9 Speaks of extreme Heat, Men were scorched with great heat, The Title Global Warming is a man made Title etc (it's much more than people using to much hair spray etc)

Psalm 97:5
(The hills melted like wax) at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5
(The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned) at his presence, yea, (the world, and all that dwell therein)

Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth, and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Luke 12:55
And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat, and it cometh to pass.

The Global WARNING 2 Peter 3:3-7, and 2 Peter 3:10-12

2 Peter 3:3-7
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10-12
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Read these Bible Verses to help understand the process of the DEVASTATION of the Planet Earth...

Isaiah 24:1, Isaiah 24:3, Isaiah 24:19-20, Psalm 46:1-3, Isaiah 54:10, Habakkuk 3:6, Haggai 2:6, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1-5

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and (there was no more sea)

Almighty God rescued Noah, and his family (The Righteous) and then destroyed the face of the Earth with water as shared in the Scripture Luke 17:26-27 and now (The Righteous) will be rescued (Raptured) before the Tribulation, Wrath, and the face of the Earth is destroyed by fire...

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Isaiah 26:20-21

(Rapture)

Come,my people,enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation be overpast.

(Tribulation)

For,behold,the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, the earth also shall disclose her blood,and shall no more cover her slain.

We call it Prophecy Ushered Forth! The elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10-12

This prophetic truth spoken by a prophet named Nahum is breathtaking!

Nahum 1:2
God is jealous,and the LORD revengeth;the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
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There will be many Wars, Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, Volcanoes, Falling Stars, (Comets, Meteorites, Asteroids) and Sun Heat etc.

Also Tidal waves, Super storms, and flooding but the face of the World will be destroyed by Wrath, Tribulation (Fire) As you can see in 2 Peter 3:3-7

The Wrath begins to accelerate in revelation 6 (the seals) us chosen new creatures Rapture revelation 4:1

*As you can see in Revelation 6:15-17 many attempt to hide in caves (Dens) In the Rocks of the Mountains etc. From the Wrath of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and perhaps many will attempt to hide from Wormwood etc. In Revelation 8:1-11

For the record people can't hide from Almighty God...

Revelation 6:15-17
"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

(7 Angels given Trumpets) As the Trumpets are blown we see Wrath, and Judgment. Revelation 8:1-11

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In the Caves, Dens, Forts of the Earth...

Many attempt to hide in caves (Dens) In the Rocks of the Mountains etc. Revelation 6:15-17

Isaiah 2:19
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 2:21
To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Ezekiel 33:27
Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD, As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.

Hebrews 11:38
(Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
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Revelation 3:3
(Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard) and hold fast, and repent.

If therefore thou shalt not (watch) I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. (Blessed) is he that (watcheth) and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

1 Thessalonians 5:4
(4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.)

Reference:
RaptureProphecy.com

zeke37 · Feb 1, 2012

newcreature777 said:
The Born Again (New Creatures) who Rapture will be Caught up into the clouds with Jesus Christ, and those Left Behind will Experience The Wrath, Tribulation (Fire)

Delivered, Saved Now with King Jesus Christ, and From (out of) The Tribulation (Wrath) to come.

(Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, (we shall be saved from wrath through him)

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven,whom he raised from the dead,even (Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
For God hath not appointed us to wrath) but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

2 Chronicles 36:16
But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

God Reserves Wrath For His Enemies...

Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Psalms 11:6
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Psalm 21:9
Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

Psalm 79:6
Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name.

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Interesting to know the furnace was also heated seven times more- Read the Scripture Daniel 3:19, and Isaiah 30:26 shares the light of the sun shall be sevenfold.

Isaiah 30:26
(Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun)

(and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold)

(as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound)

Ezekiel 20:47
And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree (the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein)

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Malachi 4:1
(For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven) and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and (the day that cometh shall burn them up) saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

The Tribulation after the Rapture is a time of great Wrath (Fire) as shared in the Scriptures 2 Peter 3:3-7, and 2 Peter 3:10-12. The Sealed 144,000 in the Tribulation can be seen as Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego who were not harmed in the Fire.

Notice: in the Tribulation (Heat) as shared in Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, (neither thirst any more) (neither shall the sun light on them, nor any (heat) The Tribulation Saints who get saved in the Tribulation) Also the scripture Revelation 16:8-9 Speaks of extreme Heat, Men were scorched with great heat, The Title Global Warming is a man made Title etc (it's much more than people using to much hair spray etc)

Psalm 97:5
(The hills melted like wax) at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5
(The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned) at his presence, yea, (the world, and all that dwell therein)

Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth, and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Luke 12:55
And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat, and it cometh to pass.

The Global WARNING 2 Peter 3:3-7, and 2 Peter 3:10-12

hahahahahahahaha....sorry i couldn't resist.

2 Peter 3:3-7
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10-12
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Read these Bible Verses to help understand the process of the DEVASTATION of the Planet Earth...

and that devistation happens after the trib is long over.
at the end of the Millennium, which is when the wrath of God happens
the wrath of God is not the tribulation
Rev18 proves that.

Isaiah 24:1, Isaiah 24:3, Isaiah 24:19-20, Psalm 46:1-3, Isaiah 54:10, Habakkuk 3:6, Haggai 2:6, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1-5

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and (there was no more sea)

Almighty God rescued Noah, and his family (The Righteous) and then destroyed the face of the Earth with water as shared in the Scripture Luke 17:26-27 and now (The Righteous) will be rescued (Raptured) before the Tribulation, Wrath, and the face of the Earth is destroyed by fire...

where?
the "wrath" of God is not the tribulation.
that's the wrath of Satan.
see Rev12...times/time/half a time.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Isaiah 26:20-21

(Rapture)

Come,my people,enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation be overpast.

hiding where? not in heaven.
but rather to "THY" chamber.
not God's chamber.

(Tribulation)

For,behold,the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, the earth also shall disclose her blood,and shall no more cover her slain.

not for tribulation, but rather for the wrath that happens after the tribulation.
for God's wrath is NOT the tribulation.

We call it Prophecy Ushered Forth! The elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10-12

This prophetic truth spoken by a prophet named Nahum is breathtaking!

Nahum 1:2
God is jealous,and the LORD revengeth;the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

His wrath comes after the tribulation of those days.
Satan's wrath is the tribulation.
God's wrath happens after, and falls on all those that fail in the tribulation.
(those who worship the false Christ)

There will be many Wars, Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, Volcanoes, Falling Stars, (Comets, Meteorites, Asteroids) and Sun Heat etc.

Also Tidal waves, Super storms, and flooding but the face of the World will be destroyed by Wrath, Tribulation (Fire) As you can see in 2 Peter 3:3-7

not tribulation....
that "hour" is not His wrath, nor does the world get destroyed/remade during the trib.

today's Global warming is not that heat.

zeke37 · Feb 1, 2012

The Wrath begins to accelerate in revelation 6 (the seals) us chosen new creatures Rapture revelation 4:1

no, the wrath is seen poured in Rev16.
seals are information locks...not actual actions.
you may want to re-evaluate your "timeline".

*As you can see in Revelation 6:15-17 many attempt to hide in caves (Dens) In the Rocks of the Mountains etc. From the Wrath of the Lamb (Jesus Christ)

that "seal" is information, not actions.
the "actoins" are detailed later in the book,

the wrath of GOD will be ocuring only after the trib is all done.

and perhaps many will attempt to hide from Wormwood etc. In Revelation 8:1-11

For the record people can't hide from Almighty God...

Revelation 6:15-17
"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

so this teaches that when the Lord comes, it is wrath time.

the Lord does not come pre trib.

He comes with the dead in Christ, from heaven to earth, in 1Thes4
and He raises the dead in Christ first before the rapture.
so that means it is the last day. John 6/11
1Thes4's harpazo is not a pre trib event

(7 Angels given Trumpets) As the Trumpets are blown we see Wrath, and Judgment. Revelation 8:1-11

not till the last trump (the trump of God) in Rev11.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

as you can see the wrath begins at the 7th trump
which is also talked about in the 6th seal

the wrath begins on the last day and is detailed in Rev16
and ends on the last day

now, i believe that day is a thousand years,
and that the wrath of God is not what most think it is

In the Caves, Dens, Forts of the Earth...

Many attempt to hide in caves (Dens) In the Rocks of the Mountains etc. Revelation 6:15-17

Isaiah 2:19
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 2:21
To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Ezekiel 33:27
Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD, As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.

Hebrews 11:38
(Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------

that occurs at the end of the trib, when thhe Lord is returing.
there is no pre trib appearing/coming/rapture.

Revelation 3:3
(Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard) and hold fast, and repent.

If therefore thou shalt not (watch) I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

that does not imply pre trib.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. (Blessed) is he that (watcheth) and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

yep...
and note when that warning is given...Rev16
not pre trib.

1 Thessalonians 5:4
(4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.)

the same day that they are either watching for, or not watching for
is the same day He comes and raises the dead.
the last day.

both those that watch and those that don't,
are going to experience the same "day"

the warning is to us all, not to be caught seduced by the world and it's "king" when the true "KING" arrives

it is a continuation of 1Thes4,
where we learn that the dead in Christ come from heaven with Him,
and they are raised here first...
and then only after that, those of us
who are alive and remain unto that day (the Coming of the Lord)
are gathered/seized together with them in the changed spiritual (air) body,
so as to be like them,
and join them in a great cloud of witnesses.

1Thes4's harpazo is on the last day

Isaiah5417amen · Feb 1, 2012

Yeah New Creature777, and others who comprehend our God is a God of Hope, and thank God for the Blessed Hope Rapture...

The God of Hope Fill You...

Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

(Hope) Translated from the Greek is as (Confident Expectation)

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope)

Titus 2:13

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope) and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

The English word (Hope) as translated from the Greek is "elpis" which means to possess a (Confident Expectation) Therefore, The Christian, Born Again (New Creature) Can usher a Refreshing (Confident Expectation) in the Blessed Hope, That the Lord Jesus Christ WILL Come Rescue (Rapture) US!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The day of the Lord- wrath occurs in the tribulation. The Bride Rapture in the open DOOR Revelation 4:1 Before the Tribulation..

The Born Again (New Creatures) who Rapture will be Caught up into the clouds with Jesus Christ, and those Left Behind will Experience The Wrath, Tribulation (Fire)

Delivered, Saved Now with King Jesus Christ, and From (out of) The Tribulation (Wrath) to come.

(Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, (we shall be saved from wrath through him)

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven,whom he raised from the dead,even (Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come)

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
For God hath not appointed us to wrath) but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Notice: in the Tribulation (Heat) as shared in Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, (neither thirst any more) (neither shall the sun light on them, nor any (heat) The Tribulation Saints who get saved in the Tribulation) Also the scripture Revelation 16:8-9 Speaks of extreme Heat, Men were scorched with great heat,

zeke37 · Feb 2, 2012

Isaiah5417amen said:
Yeah New Creature777, and others who comprehend our God is a God of Hope, and thank God for the Blessed Hope Rapture...

The God of Hope Fill You...

Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

(Hope) Translated from the Greek is as (Confident Expectation)

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope)

Titus 2:13

(Looking) for that (Blessed Hope) and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

The English word (Hope) as translated from the Greek is "elpis" which means to possess a (Confident Expectation) Therefore, The Christian, Born Again (New Creature) Can usher a Refreshing (Confident Expectation) in the Blessed Hope, That the Lord Jesus Christ WILL Come Rescue (Rapture) US!

not pre trib style.
His Appearing is the same day as His Coming

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The day of the Lord- wrath occurs in the tribulation. The Bride Rapture in the open DOOR Revelation 4:1 Before the Tribulation..

no, that is John, not the church.
he did not remain there, rather he came back
and penned the Revelation of Jesus Christ for us.

The Born Again (New Creatures) who Rapture will be Caught up into the clouds with Jesus Christ, and those Left Behind will Experience The Wrath, Tribulation (Fire)

no.
caught up = seized...
clouds = mass multitude as in Heb12:1
caught up in the air = caught up in the spirit
(aer is a synonym for pneuma)
seized in the changed spiritual body, as per 1Cor15.

but only after the Lord brings the dead in Christ from heaven
and raises them here first according to 1Thes4 and 1Cor15.

the tribulation is not the wrath of God, because of Rev18.
the children of God are called out of babylon only after she has fallen,
yet before the plagues come.

so the trib cannot be the wrath of God, right?

Delivered, Saved Now with King Jesus Christ, and From (out of) The Tribulation (Wrath) to come.

the wrath occures after the tribulation of those days
the tribulation is not the wrath of God.
it is Satan wrath as detailed in Rev12.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
For God hath not appointed us to wrath) but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

that day is the same day for the ones watching and the ones not watching.
this is NOT a pre trib proof at all, but is a continuation of 1Thes4
where we learn that the dead in Christ come from heaven with Him,
and are raised here first, before the "rapture" occurs

and we already know from John6/11
that the dead in Christ are raised on the last day.

so the rapture is on the last day.

Notice: in the Tribulation (Heat) as shared in Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, (neither thirst any more) (neither shall the sun light on them, nor any (heat)

has to do with their clothing...
not the "heat" or "tribulation"
see Ez44's sons of Zadok

The Tribulation Saints who get saved in the Tribulation

no such group exists.
the whole church goes through the whole trib
either you are sealed before the 4 winds blow, or you are not.
no converts.

Also the scripture Revelation 16:8-9 Speaks of extreme Heat, Men were scorched with great heat,

that IS part of the wrath of God.
that IS NOT the tribulation.

interpreter · Feb 2, 2012

newcreature777 said:
Those in the Ark were Taken- taken up, as we are Taken- taken up-Rapture...Deuteronomy 4:20, Acts 1:2, Acts 1:9, Acts 1:11

Genesis 8:4 as Noahs Ark Rested on the Mountains after (the 7th month) and the Bride of Christ Rapture to the New Jerusalem (Heaven) above the Wrath that's in (the 7 year) Tribulation. As the Righteous in Noahs ark were Lifted up above, over all the Tribulation- Wrath on Earth was under their feet. Also in the Rapture- We are Lifted up above, over all the Tribulation- Wrath on Earth (under us) Psalm 47:3 (under our feet) Psalm 47:1-9

Read the Holy Bible king james version (KJV) The proper word is eagles be gathered together Luke 17:37

Luke 17

26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, [SIZE=+0]until[/SIZE] the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot's wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Exodus 19:4
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Those Left Behind experienced the Wrath (Tribulation) Almighty God rescued the Righteous (Noah, and his family! Lot, and his family) prior to his Judgment (Wrath) on those Left Behind.

One shall be taken (Rapture) and the other Left Behind Luke 17:35-36

Luke 17:35-36
Two women shall be grinding together (Working) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

36Two men shall be in the field (World) the one shall be taken (Rapture) and the other left. (Left Behind- Tribulation)

Just as us Saved, and Sealed Born Again (New Creatures 2 Corinthians 5:17)Rapture (lifteth up) before the Tribulation (Wrath)

Llifteth up the meek: as Now, and when we Rapture

He casteth the wicked down to the ground) as the Meek, are (lifteth up (Rapture)

Psalm 147:6
The LORD (lifteth up the meek) he casteth the wicked down to the ground.

One taken (Rapture) the other (Left Behind in Tribulation)

Dont Be Left Behind

Taken- taken up

Deuteronomy 4:20
But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 1:22
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

King Jesus Christ of Nazareth is LORD...

Kind Regards,

Reference:
raptureprophecy.net

Noah and his family were left after all the bad guys were taken away by the flood. That is what Jesus said. The flood took them away.

zeke37 · Feb 3, 2012

interpreter said:
The second coming was in 312AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. There was no rapture. Instead, Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered all the Church together to Nicea.

i believe that you are wrong in your interp, and about Paul

i will completely agree with you that PRETRIB rapture is not true.

but a gathering to Christ at His Coming, yet future, is true.

that's post trib.
Paul teaches a POST trib harpazo, not a PRE trib harpazo. :amen:

here is a direct comparison of Paul and Jesus' testimony...
colour coded for your convenience
i'd love to hear your comments :wave:

Jesus

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

......
paul
......

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this wesay unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heavenwith a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and withthe trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickeningspirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lordfrom heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such arethey also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

facts...
caught up in the clouds is the same as caught up in the spirit
caught up (harpazo)_ is actually "seized" in greek

seized together in the spiritual body, like the angels,
in the heavenly clouds of witnesses that return with Christ.

interpreter · Feb 4, 2012

zeke37 said:
i believe that you are wrong in your interp, and about Paul

i will completely agree with you that PRETRIB rapture is not true.

but a gathering to Christ at His Coming, yet future, is true.
that's post trib.
Paul teaches a POST trib harpazo, not a PRE trib harpazo.

here is a direct comparison of Paul and Jesus' testimony...
colour coded for your convenience
i'd love to hear your comments

Jesus

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

......
paul
......

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this wesay unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heavenwith a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and withthe trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickeningspirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lordfrom heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such arethey also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

facts...
caught up in the clouds is the same as caught up in the spirit
caught up (harpazo)_ is actually "seized" in greek

seized together in the spiritual body, like the angels,
in the heavenly clouds of witnesses that return with Christ.

The gathering of the Church occured in 325 AD, in Nicea.

zeke37 · Feb 4, 2012

hmmmm. i was not there. you were not there.
infact, the very most vast amount of Christians who have lived,
were not there.

Jesus did not "come in like manner as He left" in the 4th century did He? Acts1

back then was not the worst time in all history,
especialy compared to the dark ages, or today's age.

now, maybe Constantine is a figure in biblical prophesy, known by another name,
maybe not...
it's worthy of discussion...

but as you can see in the colour coded scriptures above,
that Jesus and paul taught the same things.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

the gathering to Christ at His Coming is yet future.

note the facts that are bolded and underlined parts

for your theory to be correct,
then shouldn't Zec14 also line up with a 4th century coming of Christ?

can you reconsile that?

Choose Wisely · Feb 5, 2012

interpreter said:
Noah and his family were left after all the bad guys were taken away by the flood. That is what Jesus said. The flood took them away.

That point of view quickly falls apart when we realize that Lot left Sodom and those that remained suffered the conquences.

interpreter · Feb 5, 2012

zeke37 said:
hmmmm. i was not there. you were not there.
infact, the very most vast amount of Christians who have lived,
were not there.

Jesus did not "come in like manner as He left" in the 4th century did He? Acts1

back then was not the worst time in all history,
especialy compared to the dark ages, or today's age.

now, maybe Constantine is a figure in biblical prophesy, known by another name,
maybe not...
it's worthy of discussion...

but as you can see in the colour coded scriptures above,
that Jesus and paul taught the same things.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

the gathering to Christ at His Coming is yet future.

note the facts that are bolded and underlined parts

for your theory to be correct,
then shouldn't Zec14 also line up with a 4th century coming of Christ?

can you reconsile that?

Just because the second coming has already come, that does not mean there is not a third coming (as hinted at in chapters 19 and 20).
There are two tribulations: the tribulation experienced by the early Church (which ended in 312AD), and the great tribulation of WW II which lasted 3 1/2 years as prophesied.

interpreter · Feb 5, 2012

Choose Wisely said:
That point of view quickly falls apart when we realize that Lot left Sodom and those that remained suffered the conquences.

The rest of Sodom was taken away and Lot was left.

zeke37 · Feb 5, 2012

interpreter said:
Just because the second coming has already come, that does not mean there is not a third coming (as hinted at in chapters 19 and 20).
There are two tribulations: the tribulation experienced by the early Church (which ended in 312AD), and the great tribulation of WW II which lasted 3 1/2 years as prophesied.

lol, 3 comings...u sound like the pre tribers...

the bible says He comes a second time...
or
He will come again.....

not that He comes a second time, and we missed it,
and then He comes again
lol.

TasManOfGod · Feb 5, 2012

One thing is for sure -there is confusion about end times-
and who is the author of confusion?

Re-Evaluating Rapture Theology

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