Event that could lead to the Third Temple

dfw69 said:

do you believe Jesus will return and build ezekiels temple and reign for a 1000 years and judge from his throne room?.....and fulfill Zech 43:7?

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I believe all the scriptures, not that I might perceive them the same way as someone else.

thank you for your honesty....

i believe jesus will build the temple describe in ezekiel when he returns....

but also i know there are institutions that feel it is their right and duty to rebuild a temple and sacrifice again as of old... in the manner of old customs......whether or not they will accomplish it remains to be seen....

but sometime in the future when a false messiah comes ....he will build ezekiel temple.....for this temple must be already built for the future antichrist to sit in....as prophecied....

and this ezekiels temple will be destroyed when the city is divided into 3 parts....for a measure of judgement is prophecied upon it...in Rev 11

and Jesus will come and build it again ....the land of israel will be flat.....for every mountain will be leveled......so the area of the land of israel will be flat and the land will hold the vast area of ezekiels vision....and the land divided for the tribes of Israel

so a timeline goes like this

1 a false messiah comes and builds ezekiel temple
2 Antichrist will come sometime later and sits in the already built ezekiels temple
3 this temple is destroyed by judgement of God
4 when Jesus returns, he will build ezekiels temple

before all this.... its highly possible that Israel will build a temple and revive the old customs.....but this is not scriptural .....it is based on current events and the desire to revive the temple worship in Israel....whether or not this happens remains to be seen.....they may or may not rebuild the old temple holding the ark of the covenant in the holy of holies....

Thanks for sharing, I know there are many various understandings on all these things. I have to wait on mine though, I am a professed fencesitter

100% "campless" on these things

I already know my knowledge base is too weak to know with any certainty.

I'll be reading in the backround, you continue in your sharing

God bless you

Fireinfolding said:

Thanks for sharing, I know there are many various understandings on all these things. I have to wait on mine though, I am a professed fencesitter

100% "campless" on these things

I already know my knowledge base is too weak to know with any certainty.

I'll be reading in the backround, you continue in your sharing

God bless you

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lol...okay...god bless you too sis...peace

Home - Temple for Jerusalem

i found this.....thoughts?

youngdisciplectl3 said in post #1:

I was wondering what people believe will happen that will allow the temple to be built.

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First it might be good to confirm from the scriptures that a third Jewish temple will indeed be built: Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show that it will be built in Jerusalem during the coming tribulation. It will coexist with the church like the second Jewish temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 22:17) and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). It could be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem by the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel after they clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Shortly after the ultra-Orthodox Jews complete the third temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22). Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a) permitting them to keep the temple and to continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it for at least seven more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a huge wall between the temple and the southern part of the Temple Mount, in order to keep the temple from being defiled.

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Shortly after that reign, at the very end of the coming tribulation, the temple could be completely destroyed (Matthew 24:2), along with the entire city of Jerusalem (Luke 19:44). For the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the armies of the world will attack and pillage Jerusalem right before the second coming of Jesus Christ (Zechariah 14:2-21), and at the second coming there will be tremendous earth changes which will occur in the immediate vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all the man-made structures in Jerusalem, including the temple, and the Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall), being completely broken down so that not one stone will be left upon another (Luke 19:44).

Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4) and he will build a fourth temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the coming millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) as the second temple served for the church in the first century (Luke 24:53) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (cf. Revelation 7:15).

(Continued in next post)

(Continued from prior post)

One reason that the third Jewish temple hasn't been built yet is because the current, secular government of Israel has been careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third holiest sites in Islam, right after those in Mecca and Medina) in order to clear the Temple Mount for the building of a third Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the state of Israel, because Muslim armies and militias could in their total rage attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad, invading Israel simultaneously from three directions, overwhelming its defenses and quickly overrunning its tiny territory, defeating it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel are no doubt aware of this danger to Israel should the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever be destroyed, they believe that the third Jewish temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the first and second Jewish temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could eventually be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic state of Israel with its capital in the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and to build on the Temple Mount a third Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law.

(This could point to another reason why the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a third temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders in Israel. So the secular leaders could want to simply place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a third temple.)

The ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel are currently well-armed, for they're allowed by Israel to even have machine guns for self-defense against the Palestinians. If the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel start to get squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank) and East Jerusalem, because of some "peace deal" handing those areas over to a Palestinian "state", the ultra-Orthodox Jews in their rage could resort to violence, for they (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea and Jerusalem as being the historically most important and most holy parts of the land of Israel promised by God to the Jews since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13).

A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea and East Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from actually requiring any such hindrance (instead, the U.S. simply gives lip service in support of a hindrance). But if pressure from the Arab world's masses for a Palestinian state becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender all the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.

If the IDF then starts forcing the evacuation of all the settlements, this could so enrage the ultra-Orthodox Jews they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, all armed with machine guns, and led by three huge bulldozers they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. They could then begin to build a third Jewish temple and declare the walled Old City of Jerusalem to be the capital of a new, purely ultra-Orthodox state of Israel, where the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law will be the law, and where no non-kosher person or thing will be allowed within the walls of Old Jerusalem.

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements, something else that could help tip the scales so that the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel will become violent is the rising up of a false, miracle-working ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel. He could rise up and say something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the reaction of the Muslims when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place He determined from the time of our father Abraham.

"Our God gave us back the Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount? Let us rise up, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into such a high state of religious zeal that they will all without any hesitation or fear march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God for his great victory.

Something else that could help tip the scales with regard to the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant. It could be found, for example, buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step").

The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the secular Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see the discovery of the Ark as (in their words) "an unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a strong motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, all armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it's out and the IDF troops actually see it, it's unlikely that they're going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount; they'll be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it's unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so they could even order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.

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While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it co-exists as the temple of God with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole-temple can currently co-exist with all these other temples of God, then the church-as-a-whole-temple will be able to co-exist with the future, third-earthly-literal temple building which the scriptures show will exist during the coming tribulation (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4), which third temple will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the second temple was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the third temple, and will perform animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12); that's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19); and that's why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the second temple's Mosaic practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26, cf. 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus Christ-rejecting motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Mosaic third temple in itself and Mosaic animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for all of our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

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Acts 17:24b and Acts 7:48-50 are referring back to the principle of Isaiah 66:1-2a, which principle was true even at the time of Solomon's temple (2 Chronicles 2:6). It means that God is too big to dwell only in temples made with hands, not that God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. For God did dwell in Solomon's temple (1 Kings 8:11), and God did dwell in the second temple (Matthew 23:21). And so nothing requires that God won't dwell in the third temple, which will be built during the coming tribulation (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

youngdisciplectl3 said in post #1:

Could this crisis between Israel and Iran (which is a crisis involving Russia, China, Syria, America, etc..) influence or cause the rebuilding of the 3rd temple?

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It could be the other way around: actions toward the building of a third Jewish temple could influence the crisis between Israel and Iran, in that the actions could lead to a war against Israel in which Iran will play a part.

One way this war could happen is that the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it's huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army (for the U.S. and Israel) for an all-out ground invasion of Iran (to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime). As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, the CIA and the Mossad could then help the Baathists (who see non-Arab Iran as an enemy of Arab autonomy) to take back complete control of Iraq via a coup d'etat.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, false-flag operations could be managed by the CIA and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians", and the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (led by a false Messiah) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a third Jewish temple. This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran and instead turn and send their vast army against tiny Israel, completely defeating it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this would not be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat Egypt (Daniel 11:15), the regime of which (even if there's some ostensible change in Egypt) the Baathists could see as still being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. The ultimate aim of Baathism is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the Baathist Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Tiny Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from three directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its tiny sliver of land completely overrun, and sees its defeat as imminent, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that a fourth of the world could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the coming tribulation, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing a fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The great sword of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification".

The first thing the Antichrist could do once he's given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist confederation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated Israel), is to perform a very small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22). They could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it's not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm.

Then, instead of executing all the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing: he will make a peace treaty with them (Daniel 11:23); he will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a), permitting them to keep a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least seven more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there.

By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It's all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well equipped and advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations.

For if the Baathists defeat Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the peace treaty, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "world peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 days (Revelation 12:6).

The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21, 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign are over, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place of the Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the worshippers of the Antichrist (Revelation 16). When Jesus returns he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, 2 Thessalonians 2:8), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then Jesus and the just-resurrected church (including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Some possible objections to the Baathist war scenario outlined in the prior post:

1. "Wouldn't the Baathists be deterred from attacking, by Israel's nukes?"

Even though Iraq and Syria know of Israel's nuclear weapons and its tendency to retaliate in huge measure against attacks, Iraq and Syria could still decide to make an all-out attack against Israel, for a couple of reasons. First, by that time Iran could have successfully built (or secretly purchased from North Korea) and tested its first nuclear weapon, and have claimed to have built a few more to (in its words) "serve solely for defensive purposes against Israel's nuclear threat". Iraq and Syria could then think that Israel won't use its nuclear weapons against them, even if they do attack Israel with all their conventional forces, because Israel would then have to fear Iran retaliating against Israel with nuclear weapons.

Second, the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque could so enrage the rank and file of the (Muslim) Iraqi and Syrian Armies that they could demand an immediate invasion of Israel, and threaten an all-out revolt against their generals if their generals refuse to lead them in the attack. Fearing for their own lives at the hands of their own soldiers, the generals could initiate the attack against Israel, figuring that even if Israel goes ahead and nukes Baghdad and Damascus in retaliation for the defeat of Israel, by that time the Iraqi and Syrian armies will all be in Israel, out of harm's way from Israel's nukes, for Israel isn't going to nuke its own land.

But what good would it do the Baathists to gain "Palestine" and Egypt while losing Baghdad and Damascus to Israeli nukes? The Baathists could figure that the loss of Baghdad and Damascus (which they could evacuate ahead of time) is worth it in order to completely defeat Israel and Egypt, thereby removing the very foundation of U.S. hegemony over the Arab world. And by the time the U.S. makes its counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. take back) Israel and Egypt, the Baathists could have become so well dug-in, and so well equipped and advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that the U.S. counter-attack could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations.

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2. "Wouldn't the Israeli Air Force be able to take out any forces streaming toward Israel?"

The Israeli Air Force could be unable to hit enough of the massive Iraqi invading force to prevent the tiny territory of Israel from being overrun. For between Baghdad and Israel is basically flat desert across which massive numbers of Iraqi tanks, armored personnel carriers and rapid-fire, rapidly-moving tracked howitzers could stream west toward Israel in wide and staggered formations which Israel's Air Force could have difficulty taking out quickly. And interspersed liberally among the Iraqi forces could be large numbers of highly-mobile Iraqi SAM units which could manage to take out most of Israel's Air Force as it's attacking the Iraqi forces.

Any Iraqi force configuration which the U.S. will make sure is capable of surviving all of Iran's air and surface defenses and overrunning Iran's relatively huge territory could have no problem with surviving Israel's air and surface defenses at least to the point of still being able to overrun the tiny territory of Israel.

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3. "What about the U.S. forces in Iraq, or Kuwait?"

There could be no U.S. forces in Iraq when the war happens (they've already vacated Iraq, and might never return). And even if they do return before the war happens, they, just as the U.S. forces in Kuwait, would have a hard time justifying to the Iraqi masses the U.S.'s killing of Iraqi troops (starting on their way across the desert to defeat Israel).

Also, if the Iraqi Army basically vacates Iraq in order to defeat Israel (with a promise from Israel-hating Iran not to invade Iraq in the meantime), then if all the U.S. forces in Kuwait (and any which may have returned to Iraq) went chasing westward after the Iraqi Army to attack and weaken it before it reaches Israel, the U.S. would have to fear Iran invading and occupying a then completely-defenseless Iraq (which occupation Iran could justify by saying that it's just there to defend the Iraqi masses from any retaliation by U.S. forces until the Iraqi Army can return from its defeat of Israel), not to mention that it would also leave the U.S.'s own flank in Kuwait dangerously exposed to an Iranian invasion and occupation.

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4. "Wouldn't the U.S. be able to counter-attack with its forces in the West and restore Israel and Egypt?"

If the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt, the U.S. could begin a counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. take back) Israel and Egypt by attempting a huge amphibious assault on Egypt, only to see its invasion force cut to shreds in the sea by tens of thousands of rockets and missiles fired from shore, resulting in the loss of something like 30,000 U.S. military personnel in a single day.

This could cause a huge uproar among the U.S. public, which could cry out: "What are we doing over there? Who cares about Egypt? And why in the world do the Israelis have to live in that awful region surrounded by so many hateful and powerful enemies? Let all the Israelis come over here to America and live in freedom and peace with us. Why should any more of our precious young men and women be slaughtered over this madness in the Middle East?" And so the U.S. could withdraw from attempting any more counter-attacks to "restore" Israel and Egypt. Also, a bankruptcy of the U.S. government at this same time because of a massive run on the U.S. dollar after its disastrous failure in the counter-attack could render the U.S. simply unable for a time to finance any more huge military adventures overseas.

The U.S. could instead blockade the Baathists with its Navy and call an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to address the situation. But Russia and China could veto any votes to send in U.N. forces, saying "What right does the world have to interfere in this act of Arab self-determination? How is Arab Iraq and Syria invading Arab Palestine and Egypt to establish a free union of Arabs any different than the American North invading the American South during the American Civil War to establish a free union of Americans? Should the U.N. invade the U.S. to restore the Confederacy? And how is the Arabs throwing the Jews off their ancestral land any different than the U.S. throwing the American Indians off their ancestral lands? Should the U.N. invade the U.S. to restore the American Indians to their ancestral lands?"

The U.S. could then turn to the U.N. General Assembly, only to have its spokesman hooted and shouted from the podium by a world that is jealous of America's power: "Ha! Ha! Great America is defeated! And no one wants to help it restore its hegemony in the Middle East!"

The U.S. could then turn to NATO, only to have the Europeans turn down its request to send the armies of Europe (as they could say) "into the jaws of death, and for what?"

Russia and China, seeing America's isolation, could then send in military "advisors" into an ever-expanding "United Arab States" and shore it up with massive amounts of military hardware and training. Oil-thirsty China could do so in exchange for cheap oil, and oil-rich Russia could sell its military hardware in exchange for huge amounts of cash (and just to be able to thumb its nose at a defeated U.S. and keep the U.S. from taking back hegemony over the Middle East).

Ultimately, after the Baathists have completed taking control of the entire Arab Middle East and North Africa, the U.S. could find itself completely blocked out of those regions and all of their oil, but could say that it's those regions that are blockaded by the huge U.S. Navy. To get around the U.S. naval blockade, China could lay an oil pipeline from the Middle East to a point on the coast of the Indian Ocean (where oil tankers could get the oil) beyond the blockade. (Also, if most of the U.S. Navy gets deployed to blockade the huge region controlled by the Baathists, China could see that as the time for it to make an all-out attempt to restore Taiwan to mainland Chinese control, and also to take control of every disputed island -- and every oil and gas-rich undersea territory -- in the South China Sea.)

Russia could get around the U.S. naval blockade by sending into the Middle East and North Africa any military hardware sales it would have delivered by ship, by delivering them instead via rail and truck crossing the Caucasus and eastern Turkey. And Europe could get around the blockade and obtain oil from the Middle East and North Africa by building a pipeline across the Bosporus, and possibly even by digging a pipeline tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar.

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5. "Wouldn't God letting the state of Israel be ended by the Baathists break his promises?"

No, God's promises won't be broken, even if the Baathist scenario comes to pass. For just as God allowed the ancient state of Israel to be ended by the Babylonians in 586 BC, but then restored the state of Israel in 538 BC; and just as God then allowed the state of Israel to be ended again by the ancient Romans in 70 AD, but then restored the state of Israel again in 1948 AD; so God could allow the state of Israel to be ended again by the Baathists at the start of the coming tribulation, but then restore the state of Israel again at the second coming of Jesus Christ, which will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

Jesus Christ's kingdom is Israel (John 12:13b-15, John 1:49b, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his second coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' return he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a), and fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29.

And Jesus will also bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David, for they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in Jesus when they see him at his second coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will become part of the church at that time, for there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

During the millennium, Gentile nations will come up to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) upon the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

For all those in the church who are genetic Jews remain Israel (Romans 11:1), and all those in the church who are genetic Gentiles have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b, 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary because all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9b,12b).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

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6. "Didn't Iraq fail to defeat Iran the last time?"

Yes, but the U.S. could build up a Baathist Iraqi Army until it's much more powerful than it was under (Baathist) Saddam Hussein, to the point where the U.S. could become convinced that another stalemate-war (like in the 1980s) between a Baathist Iraq and a theocratic Iran will be avoided, and that Iraq will be able to completely overrun and occupy Iran. (But then Baathist Iraq could decide not to invade Iran at all, but to turn and defeat Israel and Egypt instead.)

Some possible objections to the Baathist, Arab political unity scenario outlined in post #88:

1. "Isn't there no political unity, but only much divisiveness, in the Arab world?"

There's no unity now, when the Arab masses are unnaturally divided by rival military dictatorships, many supported by the U.S. and Israel. But all the current political divisiveness in the Arab world could be overcome if Baathism is able to ignite Arab nationalism as the cause celebre among the Arab masses, who could overthrow any Arab governments insistent on keeping the Arab world splintered up into petty, political fiefdoms. Take out the different dictatorships and replace them with one popular, charismatic Arab-nationalist Baathist dictator (i.e. the Antichrist) who distributes the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24), and you'll get political unity in the Arab world in a heartbeat.

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2. "Isn't the Arab world hopelessly divided by religion (i.e. Sunnis vs. Shiites), killing its own without batting an eyelid?"

The beauty of Baathism (from a Baathist's point of view) is that it downplays religion and focuses on Arab nationalism. The Baathists could point to Sunni vs. Shiite terrorism to show that religious extremism is only hurting the Arabs themselves, and that the Arabs need to assert religious moderation across the board. Almost all Arabs are already religiously moderate; they're just too scared of the religious extremists to speak out against extremism. But if the Baathists squash the extremists militarily, the Arabs can unite politically under Arab nationalism and a moderate Islam into one powerful United Arab States, regardless of the majority religious sects within its various states.

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3. "Isn't Arab unity and power impossible because they aren't Western thinkers, they don't have Western intellects?"

The Arabs won't have to become Western thinkers (in the sense of embracing democracy or women's rights) in order to become united, like they were united at times during the Middle Ages, when for centuries Arab intellectual endeavors far excelled those in Europe. The Arabs are in no sense stupid intellectually. Their masses have just in recent centuries been suppressed intellectually, not educated in any matters beyond religion. Dubai shows that, once educated in a modern fashion, the Arab mind is more than capable of developing a modern, technological society like that in the West. Imagine the level of development in Dubai spread across the Arab world, from Oman to Morocco, and you can begin to grasp the potential power of a United Arab States.

1Prophetess said in post #23:

However, the Bible says that the generation shall not pass away after Israel becomes a nation again. So that was in 1948, and those folks are in their 60s now. I suppose at least one could live to be over 100, but that is pretty aged. We could have another 40 years. However, a generation has several definitions--How long is a generation and is this the final generation? so we aren't sure what a generation is either.

That being said, we have to be close.

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That's right.

Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the things foretold in Matthew 24 would happen to the temporal generation at the time of Jesus' first coming, for those things didn't happen to that temporal generation. Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation that saw the 1948 re-establishment of Israel (which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree: Matthew 24:32-34, cf. Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43) won't pass until the fulfillment of the tribulation and the second coming, which Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:5-31 (and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6-19). A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Luke 16:8b) won't pass away from the earth during the coming tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until the second coming of Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

dfw69 said in post #42:

has the temple describe in ezekiel ever been build by the messiah?

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Ezekiel chapters 40-48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen (like those in Revelation must happen: Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus Christ on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns, he will still build a New Covenant temple building in Jerusalem before which New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build the temple and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Jpark said in post #60:

2 Thess. 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

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Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:4, the coming Antichrist will fulfill that verse when he by force takes control of a third Jewish temple, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices (which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have been offering in front of it), and then has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place of the Jewish temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2).

The Antichrist could make quite a show of his sitting himself in the future Jewish temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could even make a TV/web broadcast of it which will be seen live by the world (cf. Matthew 24:15). He could be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and been claimed and placed in the temple by the ultra-Orthodox Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of it, showing the Ark to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four more men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. All the men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit upon the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a future, apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a magnificent golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's hands, and as the Antichrist is placing the crown upon his own head, a camera could zoom in on his face as he says: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. Worship me, all ye nations of the earth!" (Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

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With regard to the Antichrist first entering the temple's most holy place, it's possible that instead of entering from its front, he could enter through an opening broken through its back wall. This possibility arises when we consider the symbolism associated with the original tabernacle (discussed below; see especially the last two paragraphs).

The parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34). The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Christ's New Covenant sacrifice (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed water baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5b, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The courtyard of the tabernacle could have represented the earth and it atmosphere, the first heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The holy place of the tabernacle could have represented the second heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the most holy place of the tabernacle could have represented the third heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b).

In the courtyard of the tabernacle, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The five pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the five most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these five pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other four pillars could have represented four of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the holy place of the tabernacle, the seven lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the seven (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the second planet, the fourth planet, the fifth planet, and the sixth planet. The twelve loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the twelve constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the seven lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the third heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the most holy place of the tabernacle, the veil between the holy place and the most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (i.e. space-time throughout the universe) and the third heaven spiritual realm. The four pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the four dimensions of space-time, the four fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the four possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma); so that going past the four pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the third heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of four things referred to above could have been patterned after the third heaven's four beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the most holy place of the tabernacle included six boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16), plus two corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the top-covering curtains of the tabernacle in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the taches of gold at the line between the holy place and the most holy place). That is, in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, 1500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the most holy place of the tabernacle had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the future rebellion of the man commonly called the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), the gematrial number of whose personal name adds up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). For he could break through the back wall of the third Jewish temple (which will be built) and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

hi bible2....http://www.templeforjerusalem.org/ what are your thoughts on this? The Merkabah or Merkavah

also i find it interesting that the antichrist comes to sit in the temple.....the only temple with a seat in it is the temple of ezekiel....which has a throne room....and if built a false messiah can come and sit in the holy of holies and judge from the throne room of the future temple....this is a possible future event that jesus warn us about

dfw69 said in post #94:

templeforjerusalem.org/ what are your thoughts on this? The Merkabah or Merkavah

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Regarding templeforjerusalem.org, the Muslims would never allow a Jewish temple to be built on a platform over the Dome of the Rock (they don't allow Jews to even go up on the Temple Mount). And the Orthodox Jews would never allow the Muslim Dome of the Rock to remain intact beneath a Jewish temple. Indeed, they wouldn't allow even a single pebble of the rubble of a destroyed Dome, Al Aqsa Mosque, and other Muslim structures to remain anywhere on the Temple Mount once the building of a third Jewish temple has begun. For, as another Jewish website says: "the Temple Mount has to be cleared of the Dome of the Rock and the mosques which are presently located upon it before the physical rebuilding of the Holy Temple can begin" (Temple Institute).

Regarding the Jewish "merkabah" (H4818), the "chariot" of God, Ezekiel saw that it has four wheels (Ezekiel 10:9) which are so large they're frightening (Ezekiel 1:18). Each wheel consists of a wheel at a right angle within another wheel (Ezekiel 1:16-17, Ezekiel 10:10b). The wheels turn with the sound of a great rushing (Ezekiel 3:13). Each wheel has eyes all around its rims (Ezekiel 1:18b).

Each wheel has an accompanying footman, as it were (Ezekiel 10:9,16,17): a four-winged, four-faced (Ezekiel 1:6) angelic-creature called a cherub (Ezekiel 10:9), whose wings make a great sound like rushing waters (Ezekiel 1:24), and whose bodies are covered with eyes (Ezekiel 10:12). Their four faces are of a man, a lion, an ox, and an eagle (Ezekiel 1:10).

Between the four wheels and four cherubim are coals of fire (Ezekiel 10:2), and above is a crystal platform (Ezekiel 1:22) above which God sits on a sapphire throne (Ezekiel 1:26, Ezekiel 10:1) and appears as bright as fire (Ezekiel 1:27), with a rainbow of light circling him (Ezekiel 1:28).

God moves about on this chariot, for he came on it to appear to Ezekiel by the river Chebar in Babylonia (Ezekiel 1:3-28). Then God moved on the chariot to a plain in Babylonia (Ezekiel 3:22-23). Later, God moved on the chariot to the right side of Solomon's temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 10:3-6). Then God moved on the chariot to the east gate of Solomon's temple (Ezekiel 10:19). Then God moved on the chariot to the top of the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem (Ezekiel 11:22-23; cf. Zechariah 14:4). Later, God moved on the chariot to sit inside a future temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 43:2-7).

dfw69 said in post #94:

i find it interesting that the antichrist comes to sit in the temple.....the only temple with a seat in it is the temple of ezekiel....which has a throne room....

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On what scripture do you base the "only" part of that idea? That is, why do you feel that the Antichrist can't possibly place a throne in the most holy place of a different Jewish temple in Jerusalem which will be built prior to the one in Ezekiel 43:5-7?

(See post #93)

On what scripture do you base the "only" part of that idea? That is, why do you feel that the Antichrist can't possibly place a throne in the most holy place of a different Jewish temple in Jerusalem which will be built prior to the one in Ezekiel 43:5-7?

(See post #93)


yes i see your point....i could be wrong.....im human....no scripture just speculation....i highly doubt that he will sit on the ark of the covenant though....

but it just makes sense to me that the false messiah and his followers with common goals and common laws ....would want to fool the world and would want to fulfill messianic prophecy.....thus build the temple describe in ezekiel and sit in the throne room judging the world.....a great plan for the one world government....

the "temple" of "God" is "us".

if it is called the "temple of God" by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,
it must be the acceptible temple of God...

and that "acceptible temple of God" certainly is not going to be full of animal sacrifices
that make void the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

dfw69 said:

On what scripture do you base the "only" part of that idea? That is, why do you feel that the Antichrist can't possibly place a throne in the most holy place of a different Jewish temple in Jerusalem which will be built prior to the one in Ezekiel 43:5-7?

(See post #93)


yes i see your point....i could be wrong.....im human....no scripture just speculation....i highly doubt that he will sit on the ark of the covenant though....

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especially since the arc is in heaven (prob taken by Elijah)

but it just makes sense to me that the false messiah and his followers with common goals and common laws ....would want to fool the world and would want to fulfill messianic prophecy.....thus build the temple describe in ezekiel and sit in the throne room judging the world.....a great plan for the one world government....

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possible...but it would not be the temple of God that Paul speaks of.