God doesn't answer fervent prayers of the redeemed

Thunder 88 · Jan 31, 2012

Strong in Him said:
God gave the Israelites a command that all first born males belonged to him, (Ex 13:2; 22:29). This was because the last plague in Egypt was the death of the firstborn. The Israelites were saved from this, by putting the blood of a lamb on their door posts, therefore, God had saved their firstborn, so they were to be dedicated to him. (Numbers 3:13).The Israelites werre to redeem their sons when they were a month old, by paying 5 shekels, (Numbers 18:15-16).

How does that apply to us? We were not rescued from Egypt, nor had our firstborn sons saved from the plague. We do not deal in shekels, and what happens when the child dies before it is a month old, as in this case?

Maybe, but possibly not the Scriptures?

If we gentiles were meant to redeem our firstborn, there would be some NT teaching on it.

Sorry but I can disprove that theory right away. My husband is the only male in his family - so must be the firstborn. He is over 50, a Christian and has a great job. Many men in my church were first born, and the same is true there too.
A family near us had a son and then triplets. The firstborn thrived; two of the triplets died, and the boy who died wasn't born first.
Plenty of first born males make it to their teenage years - and far beyond.
Our monarcy here in the UK has been largely made up of first born males.

We are not supposed to, and that is a tactless thing to say.

That doesn't really have anything to do with what you have just said.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not destroy it, hence the Old Testament teachings are valid, and therefore included in any Christian Bible. Please don't try to invalidate the teachings of Moses and the prophets just because you follow Christ. Do you follow Christ? Remember, he was mad at the Jewish Elders and their ancestors for dismissing the prophets of old.

When Jesus came into the world, we are taught that a lot of boys were killed in hopes of preventing the messiah from becoming king.

Sorry folks, but you can't sugar coat this one, but to redeem the first born male is a matter of strict importance.

And sure, there are a lot of first born men out there, thriving and prospering. What's their relationship to their parents? They might be separated, they may be at odds with one another. Maybe those first born men are not first born men. How many times has a woman lied about the identity of their children? How many times did young girls have an abortion because they were too young or afraid of what their fathers might do? Only to go on and say to their future husband that she doesn't have any kids...

Those truths don't get revealed so easily, but they will be...

And the point of the story about this old man I met, well that's to let us know that no matter what kid of ours passes away, whether the first or last, they all belong to YHWH.

nhisname · Jan 31, 2012

GloryBe! said:
It is pride to ask God to protect my unborn baby? It is pride to believe that my son will be born healthy? Is it pride to believe that God was in control of my son, yet let him die despite my faithful and fervent prayers? if horrible things happen to the saints yet agnostics get to keep their babies, what is the point of praying for anything good?

Glory be!

First and foremost it is his will we are seeking not our own. What ever his will is we know it is for the best, we may not like it or understand it but he gives us strength and comfort to get through it. Prayer for me is fellowshipping with my Father. Getting to know him on a very personal level. The more I can let go and give him more of my self the more I can rely on to him to get me through the next day. He is building my faith in him. (Hope that makes sense) Alot of times he has to take things away from you so you will rely solely on him. That happened to me a few years ago.

Cribstyl · Jan 31, 2012

I've taken some time to shed tears of sorrow with you dear sister, I feel a potion of your pain. I understand some reasons why you could be feeling hopeless, disappointed and extremely bitter.

Noone can explain when it seems like God is silent.

My humble advise to you is, to find comfort in your faith that Jesus Christ is still the Lord of your life.

Continue in prayer for a revelation of His will for your life.

God will comfort you in due time.

Remember that, the confessions (witness, testimonies) of your mouth are exactly what you believe about God.

Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
Job 13:16 He also [shall be] my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.

We will be praying for you.
:groupray:

Strong in Him · Jan 31, 2012

Thunder 88 said:
Please don't try to invalidate the teachings of Moses and the prophets just because you follow Christ.

I'm not. But the Israelites were told exactly why they had to redeem their firstborn, because they were saved from the final plague of Egypt. That simply does not apply to us; we are Gentiles and not in that position.

The ultimate answer of course is that God gave HIS firstborn Son to redeem us.

Thunder 88 said:
Do you follow Christ?

Of course I do.

Thunder 88 said:
Sorry folks, but you can't sugar coat this one, but to redeem the first born male is a matter of strict importance.

And I'm sorry but that is a personal interpretation of Scripture which I, and many others, don't share.

If you want to discuss this further and properly, could you start another thread on the subject? I don't want to derail this one of Glorybe's by talking theology when we could be offering support.

GloryBe! · Jan 31, 2012

Thunder 88 said:
Jesus came to fulfill the law, not destroy it, hence the Old Testament teachings are valid, and therefore included in any Christian Bible. Please don't try to invalidate the teachings of Moses and the prophets just because you follow Christ. Do you follow Christ? Remember, he was mad at the Jewish Elders and their ancestors for dismissing the prophets of old.

When Jesus came into the world, we are taught that a lot of boys were killed in hopes of preventing the messiah from becoming king.

Sorry folks, but you can't sugar coat this one, but to redeem the first born male is a matter of strict importance.

And sure, there are a lot of first born men out there, thriving and prospering. What's their relationship to their parents? They might be separated, they may be at odds with one another. Maybe those first born men are not first born men. How many times has a woman lied about the identity of their children? How many times did young girls have an abortion because they were too young or afraid of what their fathers might do? Only to go on and say to their future husband that she doesn't have any kids...

Those truths don't get revealed so easily, but they will be...

And the point of the story about this old man I met, well that's to let us know that no matter what kid of ours passes away, whether the first or last, they all belong to YHWH.

Please get off my thread. I came here for support,understanding and perhaps valid answers. Your theory doesn't make sense and besides, I didn't have even the OPPORTUNITY to validate or "redeem " my unborn baby. I'm not a Jew, nor do I come from the time of Moses. I repeat: please stay off my thread.

Glory be!

GloryBe! · Jan 31, 2012

Has anyone else questioned why God let's such evil happen to those who love him, and, if so, do you have any solid answers? I have read everyone's replies, and I appreciate them, but I am still not understanding. I don't mean to be difficult, cause I REALLY DO want to know why my son had to have this tragic accident befall him...

Glory be!

Supreme · Feb 3, 2012

MOD HAT ON

Thread moved to Christian Advice.

MOD HAT OFF

Johnnz · Feb 3, 2012

God on Mute explores very well the theme of God's silence and unanswered prayers.

John
NZ

MasterpieceMesias · Feb 3, 2012

that is a good question. . .

StoneWater · Feb 3, 2012

GloryBe! said:
I've tried my whole life to live by God's standards, having great faith,humbly praying and often grateful for all he's given me. But in one instant I realized He cared nothing for my prayers, even though his word says seek and ye shall find, ask and it will be given to you, "the prayers of the righteous avails much. " and... He shall give you the desires of your heart.
I once believed this with my whole heart and soul. But now I have realized it's all up to chance. I can pray til I'm blue in the face and evil may befall me, or I can choose not to pray for something and it happens by chance. Good things happen to bad people and evil tragedies befall saints. So, what is the point of asking God for anything?

Glory be!

What... (on the prayer bit)...

Yeah the bad people get "their good things" in the old age... and bad things in the new age. Reverse for good people.

Still, would you have rather been a prophet or Jesus or apostle or saint... or someone out of the know?

As for prayer, what on earth are you praying for? It is all faith based and need based.

Even wants, if one is so inclined...

joey_downunder · Feb 3, 2012

GloryBe! said:
Has anyone else questioned why God let's such evil happen to those who love him, and, if so, do you have any solid answers? I have read everyone's replies, and I appreciate them, but I am still not understanding. I don't mean to be difficult, cause I REALLY DO want to know why my son had to have this tragic accident befall him...

Glory be!

I have had several tragedies in my life. Some were health-related, my very worst was relationship-related.

Like you I asked "why God didn't you intervene? Why did you let me go through this? Why have you put me through so much that hardly any-one else has to go through ? If you love me why do you hurt me so much? what did I do wrong? "

I have not received any easy answers that understandingly you are looking for in your time of extreme grief. However I can look back at how I have changed from what I was before my tragedies.

*Before my health got really bad I was unaware of what the disabled and sick have to go through every day. Now I am able to be patient with anyone who has these struggles.

*Before I had my destructive relationship I had no heart knowledge of what abuse and rape survivors go through. I was recently told by a non-christian woman I was a real christian because I did not judge her for being in such a bad relationship.

*Before I got moved around Australia so much (hubby used to be in army) I didn't understand what foreigners and what people from different socio-economic groups experience . Now I can communicate with people from anywhere if they speak English.

I think you get the picture. God knows where each christian needs to grow to change. Look upJohn 15:1-11 - ESVBible.org

Sometimes growth will only happen after the most extreme pruning. It may seem like a long time until you see or feel any "growth" in the Lord. Let yourself grieve for your lost baby. It is perfectly and natural to feel what you're feeling.

Now in the long-term realise that after recovering and healing from your grief it is likely that you will always very sensitive to loss of any babies - whether on news or friends, acquaintances or family.

All of us pray that you will use this heart knowledge to greatly bless other grieving mothers and to bring glory to God. :groupray:

paul1149 · Feb 3, 2012

Glory be,

I'm so sorry you have suffered this painful loss. My heart goes out to you.

And if my miserable, atrophied heart goes out to you, then most certainly, so does the Lord's.

This is your time of grief. This is a good and necessary thing. It's also a time of questioning God. This is good and necessary too.

But consider Paul's dynamic in Ephesians: Be angry, and sin not. The Lord understands that we are human and live in a fallen world. Things happen that are angering. And by extension, things happen that are grievous. We are allowed to have those emotions, and indeed we are supposed to have them. Jesus had them. Jesus wept. Jesus even questioned the Father on the cross: my God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Jesus, who had intimate knowledge of the Father, now felt totally abandoned. It was the only time He called His Father the generic "God". If Jesus had to experience this sense of abandonment, shouldn’t we expect similar?

But consider the second half of Paul's exhortation: sin not. When the going got tough, Jesus asked the disciples if they too wanted to leave Him. Peter answered, essentially, where do we have to go? You alone have the words of eternal life.

I've had a lot of woe in my own life, and I wish I could say that I always had the sense to stay within Paul's boundaries. But I didn’t, and when I walked away from God I only hurt myself. They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy. – Jon 2.8

I wish I understood more. I have visions and dreams that seem to directly contradict each other, with painful areas hung in the balance. I do the best I can to walk in faith, and to do so in a way submitted to the Lord's will, but I keep coming back to Romans 8.28 as my safety net when I don’t understand.

All I can recommend, really, is that you cling to the Lord even when there are no answers, and trust in the promises even if they seem to have no earthly fulfillment at the moment. I believe the eternal aspect must come first. It's the only way to understand God's perspective. If all He cared about was what happens in the immediate, all evil would be instantly erased. He's working things out on a plane we cannot begin to understand.

At the natural level, you have every reason to abandon faith. But faith is not natural, it is supernatural. An imperishable seed has been implanted in you, and it will not be destroyed. This is a time not to distance yourself from God, but to run to Him. If He didn’t feel your pain as His own He never would have sent His only-begotten to suffer such horrors so we could be free.

forGod1 · Feb 3, 2012

GloryBe! said:
I've tried my whole life to live by God's standards, having great faith,humbly praying and often grateful for all he's given me. But in one instant I realized He cared nothing for my prayers, even though his word says seek and ye shall find, ask and it will be given to you, "the prayers of the righteous avails much. " and... He shall give you the desires of your heart.
I once believed this with my whole heart and soul. But now I have realized it's all up to chance. I can pray til I'm blue in the face and evil may befall me, or I can choose not to pray for something and it happens by chance. Good things happen to bad people and evil tragedies befall saints. So, what is the point of asking God for anything?

Glory be!

First you need to think, "Maybe God is teaching me something for the future here?".. secondly you need to think, "Are my wants completely in-line with my needs?"

Fiona01 · Feb 4, 2012

Glory-Be: I am sorry for the hard time you're going through, and I'm sorry for your loss. I really am.

I haven't been able to read each page of this thread but I just wanted to say something... I do sincerely believe God hears each and every prayer. I believe He answers them too - just not in the way we always want, or expect.

We have to see God as the loving father He is. Sometimes a strict parent will do something for the safety, health, well-being or goodness for the child without the child seeing why. I always use the analogy of a knife. If a child wants to play soldiers, and carries a knife, and is enjoying his time playing, will your father not pull that knife away and say, "Not now, when you are older, this could mean something bad for you right now!" The child will cry, ask why, but we know the adult knows the right reason for it all.

Could there be an ultimate reason He didn't answer your prayer? There was an answer, just not the one you most desired - that does not mean He didn't have a reason, or that a purpose was not served in His eyes.

Okay that's such an over-simplified way of looking at things, but I do know God has answered many, many prayers of mine. I also know at times He hasn't given me for what I asked for, even begged for. It hurts, can be disappointing, but I trust that THE LORD KNOWS WHAT IS RIGHT, AND WHAT IS FOR THE BEST.

He will not let you suffer just for suffering sake. Trust in His love and well meaning for you.

BFine · Feb 4, 2012

Here's a blog of mine:

Now I know Why

Posted 20th July 2011 at 02:08 PM by BFine
[SIZE=-1]When we still lived on the Sunshine Coast and attended church with a man who had no feet...
I use to wonder why it seemed so important for us to get to know him and to make him feel accepted and appreciated... well now I know why.

I use to wonder why it was so important that I learned to be a nursing assistant and learned to do physical therapy exercises... well now I know why.

I use to wonder why God spent so much time "working" on me and making me feel like I didn't belong in NC all my life... well now I know why.

I use to wonder why it was so easy for me to spend time with those who are hurting/sick... well now I know why.

I use to wonder why it was so important for me to have a Bible and to grow deeper in faith... well now I know why.

Nobody could tell me these things, I had to learn them so they could be real for me.

*What happened to us: In Nov. of 2009 my husband had an industrial accident that lead to
his left leg being amputated...barely 5 months later I had to have a hysterectomy due to an
over-growth of fibroid tumors.

I had a procedure done several years earlier to stop them from
growing but the procedure didn't work and my tumors grew -- one tumor(the largest one) grew
through my uterus and up into my abdomen! I was in misery and couldn't hardly leave home because
I would hemorrhage when I stood up!
It was a very difficult decision to make since I'd never been pregnant...no children.
I went through all the emotions...I questioned God, myself...it was not a good time for me at all!

I kept talking to God about all this stuff...and in talking to Him, my emotions finally settled down.
I wasn't a wreck any more... I learn to see the goodness in life and in God. It hadn't went away...it had been there all along...it was my focus that was off.

I learned to live one day at a time...each day I reminded myself of this scripture -- "This is the day the Lord has made, I WILL rejoice and be glad in it."

I didn't actually "feel" that verse for a long time but it came to me gently....I was outside one day and I found myself admiring the mountains, flowers and the sun...it's hard to explain, but it just dawned on me....how nice they are.

Now I Know Why-- Many of the answers didn't come to be known for many years--or decades...like you I had thought God didn't answer my prayers.

Instead--
God was preparing me, guiding me and maturing me in the faith.
Life is hard...and I would learn just how hard things could be.

We live in a world that is deeply affected by sin...the consequences of sin(s) is
far-reaching. Everything is affected....everything.

You prayed and it seems you got "nothing" for your efforts.
You are grieved by the loss of your baby, this is a loss no woman wants.

You will grieve, be angry, be confused...a whole bunch of emotions all churning
inside of you. Learn to express those emotions in a healthy way, find a counselor
to work with you and your husband.
The storms in this life can be over-whelming dear sister in Christ if you are wrapped
up in those storms and not seeking help/guidance/prayer from people who have
been there and come through those storms.

Do you have prayer partners who are supporting you and your husband
at this time? If not, please request that people at church to be praying
for you all. Or seek grief counseling for parents who have lost a child-- I believe you both need this.

Keep going into the throne room...
Tell it all to God...He isn't a wimp, he can take His child being angry/mad
because you lost your child.

Pour out your heart to Him...just like Jesus did.
Remember-- Jesus prayed fervently...so much so that his sweat became drops of blood!
His "fleshly" part didn't want to die!
Just like you didn't want your baby to die...Jesus "warred" against his flesh.
(You are warring against your flesh too.)

Jesus fighting against his "flesh".,.,
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Read here; found in Luke chapter 22: [/SIZE]Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Even though he got some strengthening Jesus was still in agony and he prayed even more earnestly...he's still struggling!) You
know this type of struggle...you wanted your child but it wasn't to be. I don't have all the answers for you but I know who can help heal your broken heart --God.
No matter what happens to you in this life, God can get you through it.

The scheme of the enemy is to make you think God doesn't care or that He is playing
games with you. God ain't playing no game. The only one playing games is the devil.
Job went through a lot...he kept his faith and didn't curse God.
God didn't allow the devil to kill Job.

Job suffered greatly and that shows me no matter what "life" throws at me
a person can keep their faith. And I also see that Job kept talking/praying to God
through it all. He even rebuked his wife for telling him to curse God and die!

Yes, Job's children died but they are with the Lord... living in paradise.
This is how Job has double the children...(20 in all)...10 were born to him again and
he lived to see them and several generations of offspring.

Important keys: Keep talking and praying to God.
Get the right people praying for you -- AKA mature Christians...prayer warriors!
Learn to express your grief in the right way...don't keep your emotions bottled up.
Talk to your husband - let him talk to you.
Learn to pray for each other--do it when your spouse is present and pray out loud.
Find one thing each day to do that helps someone else...no matter how small it is.

Drink from that cup...
Jesus drank from the "bitter cup"... he prayed fervently for that cup to pass from him
but that's NOT what was to happen.
Jesus humbled himself, surrendered to His Father's Will and died on a cross to redeem us from the curse.

We will share much with Jesus, we share the suffering, the victories, the good/bad times etc.
In this world you will have tribulation, take heart Jesus overcame the world.
------------------------------------------
Praise time--- Sing it until it is real for you.
At times like this YOU have to lead your "heart"
back to the straight and narrow path.

I Will Rise (Chris Tomlin)
There's a peace I've come to know
Though my heart and flesh may fail
There's an anchor for my soul
I can say "It is well"

Jesus has overcome
And the grave is overwhelmed
The victory is won
He is risen from the dead

[Chorus:]
And I will rise when He calls my name
No more sorrow, no more pain
I will rise on eagles' wings
Before my God fall on my knees
And rise
I will rise

-- You will rise--things are "dark" for you now...
live your life one day at a time and ask the Lord
to help restore to you His peace and joy.

It is my wish/prayer that you will one day rise
up again and be a blessing to someone else who
is hurting.

Lord bless this dear lady and her husband as they grieve
the loss of their child.
Bring healing/restoration into their lives.
Turn this situation around so that it will not be something
that causes them to turn from you or each other.
Father God, dry their tears, ease their suffering--send
your comfort to them, it is needed so much.

Restore the peace, joy and love into their lives and home.
Guard them against any scheme of the enemy to derail
them from following you.
Bring mature Christians into their lives to support/encourage/assist
them as they work toward healing.

In Jesus' name--Amen.

GloryBe! · Feb 4, 2012

paul1149 said:
Glory be,

I'm so sorry you have suffered this painful loss. My heart goes out to you.

And if my miserable, atrophied heart goes out to you, then most certainly, so does the Lord's.

This is your time of grief. This is a good and necessary thing. It's also a time of questioning God. This is good and necessary too.

But consider Paul's dynamic in Ephesians: Be angry, and sin not. The Lord understands that we are human and live in a fallen world. Things happen that are angering. And by extension, things happen that are grievous. We are allowed to have those emotions, and indeed we are supposed to have them. Jesus had them. Jesus wept. Jesus even questioned the Father on the cross: my God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Jesus, who had intimate knowledge of the Father, now felt totally abandoned. It was the only time He called His Father the generic "God". If Jesus had to experience this sense of abandonment, shouldn't we expect similar?

But consider the second half of Paul's exhortation: sin not. When the going got tough, Jesus asked the disciples if they too wanted to leave Him. Peter answered, essentially, where do we have to go? You alone have the words of eternal life.

I've had a lot of woe in my own life, and I wish I could say that I always had the sense to stay within Paul's boundaries. But I didn't, and when I walked away from God I only hurt myself. They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy. - Jon 2.8

I wish I understood more. I have visions and dreams that seem to directly contradict each other, with painful areas hung in the balance. I do the best I can to walk in faith, and to do so in a way submitted to the Lord's will, but I keep coming back to Romans 8.28 as my safety net when I don't understand.

All I can recommend, really, is that you cling to the Lord even when there are no answers, and trust in the promises even if they seem to have no earthly fulfillment at the moment. I believe the eternal aspect must come first. It's the only way to understand God's perspective. If all He cared about was what happens in the immediate, all evil would be instantly erased. He's working things out on a plane we cannot begin to understand.

At the natural level, you have every reason to abandon faith. But faith is not natural, it is supernatural. An imperishable seed has been implanted in you, and it will not be destroyed. This is a time not to distance yourself from God, but to run to Him. If He didn't feel your pain as His own He never would have sent His only-begotten to suffer such horrors so we could be free.

Thank you.

Glory be!

quietpraiyze · Feb 4, 2012

((((Glorybe!))))

Well I was almost all the way through my post to you before my computer clicked off and I lost it. I just want you to know that you're in my heart and in my prayers. I had read this thread last night and thought maybe I should wait to post. I woke up this morning with you on my mind. You are grieving. Everything you feel is normal including your anger with God. You don't have to apologize or explain to anybody. Believe me when I say, God can handle it. I experienced my own shattering loss that involved a child. I stayed angry for years until one day out of neccessity I told Him how I really felt about Him allowing all the pain I had gone through. What I can tell you is since that day my life was never the same. God didn't just heal me but I "saw" Him like I had never seen Him before. Make no mistake, God is not like man. He is really God.

I just want you to know that you can tell God ANYTHING and that includes how you feel about Him. God is not afraid of your anger. In the event that you do let go doesn't mean that God lets go of you. Like David said, "If I make my bed in hell thou art there and if I ascend unto the heavens thou art there". Any way you turn God's got you and He will answer your "why". I know because He did it for me. I don't think any of us get through this journey without earth shattering loss. I just don't.

I join with those who are praying for you in Christ Jesus.

GloryBe! · Feb 4, 2012

quietpraiyze said:
((((Glorybe!))))

Well I was almost all the way through my post to you before my computer clicked off and I lost it. I just want you to know that you're in my heart and in my prayers. I had read this thread last night and thought maybe I should wait to post. I woke up this morning with you on my mind. You are grieving. Everything you feel is normal including your anger with God. You don't have to apologize or explain to anybody. Believe me when I say, God can handle it. I experienced my own shattering loss that involved a child. I stayed angry for years until one day out of neccessity I told Him how I really felt about Him allowing all the pain I had gone through. What I can tell you is since that day my life was never the same. God didn't just heal me but I "saw" Him like I had never seen Him before. Make no mistake, God is not like man. He is really God.

I just want you to know that you can tell God ANYTHING and that includes how you feel about Him. God is not afraid of your anger. In the event that you do let go doesn't mean that God lets go of you. Like David said, "If I make my bed in hell thou art there and if I ascend unto the heavens thou art there". Any way you turn God's got you and He will answer your "why". I know because He did it for me. I don't think any of us get through this journey without earth shattering loss. I just don't.

I join with those who are praying for you in Christ Jesus.

This is the most helpful thing I've heard hear. Thanks

Glory be!

Stephanie1129 · Feb 8, 2012

I just want to add my voice to quietpraiyze's. When I was grieving I yelled and screamed at God and told him I was being put through more than I could handle. The worst thing you can do is shut off the communication.

Afire · Feb 8, 2012

Jesus clearly teaches in the Gospels that anything asked in his name, shall be given. Since Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, fed the multitudes, and raised the dead, and since he taught even a little faith could move a mountain from one place to another, the sincere believer should fully expect to be extravagant for what they pray for.

In regard to people who discover this teaching not to be the case, I can only conclude:

1. The teachings only apply to the disciples and Israel. It is not for Gentile dogs to presume to have the bread of the true children. Maybe an occasional crumb will be given to Gentiles with very bold and persistent faith, but such examples are the exception, not the rule.

2. The person though sincere, is actually not known to Jesus. Even though they think they are a believer, they are actually an object of wrath. (Matthew 7:23)

3. Since God values blind faith and abject obedience, Jesus intentionally gave a false teaching so would be disciples would experience a crisis of faith, and therefore have an opportunity to express the same blind obedience he exhibited in the Garden of Gethsemane. Any who know of Kierkegaard would appreciate the transcendental importance of accepting and being in obeisance to absurdity.

If God does what God knows is best despite what his sincere believers pray for, the teachings of Jesus regarding prayer are completely and utterly obsolete.

God doesn't answer fervent prayers of the redeemed

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