An athiest here checking in on curiosity.

Danielstri · Jan 20, 2012

Hello hello.

I have been wondering, there has not been much faith around myself in my life, I have explored faith and it does not call to me at all.

However I have no problem with people having faith I do not see the harm. People bring up religious wars and such, but I can't see that being attributed to anything but human nature seeing that wars have always been going on. Our social groups only seem to allow an x number of people to co exist (or any other explanation, people just don't seem get along that well in big numbers).

Regardless and to my point, I have been browsing reddit for a few years, and now it has become a sort of a faith hate site and anti-religious posts flood everything. Is there anything to what these people are saying about religious people being too forward with their faith and trying to "cram it down peoples throats" so to speak?
I understand that these people are around but the image given is that most religious people are like that. (so again to the point hehe) I am just looking for confirmation that religious people, especially in the U.S.A. are just normal people.

Any thoughts?

P.S. what are those blessing purchases offered on your site?

Thanks in advance for any response-
Daníel S. R.

ChristianT · Jan 20, 2012

I shall let someone else answer about the blessings, as others are better telling about them than me.

As for religious people being normal even in the USA, mostly.

There are a rare bunch of any denomination, sect, religion, lack of beliefs, not sure of beliefs, etc that have some out-of-this-world (in the sense of crazy, immoral, damaging things etc.) beliefs and teachings. Westboro church is a prime example of the minority of the Baptist denomination. Religion & Shunning - Why is it so Damaging? | Conversations with an Ex Jehovah's Witness This link is about an action that harmful religions and sects do that prove there's an exception to every group o' people.

I'm not saying anyone on that list or the Westboro church are evil people, but as far as the Westborians go, they seem to have a negative and twisted interpretation of the Bible. I am not endorsing any if the other religions or denominations/sects, nor defiling the name of the religion or denomination they are associated with. Just throwing facts out there.

I believe that when atheists try to pull the "shove down my throat" :yellowcard:

or "intolerance" :redcard:

cards, the first thoughts that come into my mind are:
1) :dontcare:

2)

Simply because by all the atheist comments online everywhere, they show a huge theme of intolerance and the desire to rid the world of any form of non atheist media from the world and it feels like atheists everywhere shove their lack of beliefs down everyone's stomachs (note this is even farther than our necks...) Of course you can't judge everyone by the majority, there is a minority of good atheists, but they are usually not found on the internet. They are usually hard-working and involved in charities and volunteering (not implying that whoever uses the net is a fat, lazy slob, not at all what I meant)

Peace.

hedrick · Jan 20, 2012

Danielstri said:
Hello hello.

I have been wondering, there has not been much faith around myself in my life, I have explored faith and it does not call to me at all.

However I have no problem with people having faith I do not see the harm. People bring up religious wars and such, but I can't see that being attributed to anything but human nature seeing that wars have always been going on. Our social groups only seem to allow an x number of people to co exist (or any other explanation, people just don't seem get along that well in big numbers).

Regardless and to my point, I have been browsing reddit for a few years, and now it has become a sort of a faith hate site and anti-religious posts flood everything. Is there anything to what these people are saying about religious people being too forward with their faith and trying to "cram it down peoples throats" so to speak?
I understand that these people are around but the image given is that most religious people are like that. (so again to the point hehe) I am just looking for confirmation that religious people, especially in the U.S.A. are just normal people.

Any thoughts?

P.S. what are those blessing purchases offered on your site?

Thanks in advance for any response-
Daníel S. R.

Thanks for the understanding. No, most Christians don't go around trying to ram their faith down people's throats. I've wondered whether some of the reactions aren't to individual Christians acting irresponsibly, but to policy disagreements. Some of the objections from scientists seemed to start at about the time when conservative Christians started impacting stem cell research, not to mention the continuing battle of teaching evolution. And as our culture comes to see acceptance of gays as a civil rights matter, it's easy to see Christians as oppressive. What would have been the consequences for Christianity in the US if most Christians had rejected the civil rights movement? (I'm not interested in arguing over the merits over the conservative Christian position. CF rules prohibit that. I'm speaking of perceptions of non-Christians. Even if conservatives are absolutely right about what God says, if the population as a whole thinks we're just bigoted, that still has consequences.)

There was an interesting book by the Barna organization, called "unchristian". It looked at the views of young people about Christianity. They comment that in the past atheists tended, like you, to see Christianity as harmless or possibly tending to make people more concerned about others, even if they thought it was wrong. But increasingly views of Christianity are becoming more negative. Even among Christian young people. They trace it to behavior among Christians that isn't very Christian. But their theological position wouldn't let them consider the possibility that many Christians have made some unwise choices. Most Christians do their best to be loving on an individual basis, but it's easy to see why people who disagree with conservative Christian positions would see them as damaging.

drich0150 · Jan 20, 2012

Danielstri said:
Hello hello.

I have been wondering, there has not been much faith around myself in my life, I have explored faith and it does not call to me at all.

However I have no problem with people having faith I do not see the harm. People bring up religious wars and such, but I can't see that being attributed to anything but human nature seeing that wars have always been going on. Our social groups only seem to allow an x number of people to co exist (or any other explanation, people just don't seem get along that well in big numbers).

Regardless and to my point, I have been browsing reddit for a few years, and now it has become a sort of a faith hate site and anti-religious posts flood everything. Is there anything to what these people are saying about religious people being too forward with their faith and trying to "cram it down peoples throats" so to speak?

Click to expand...

Do you have a specific example or is this more in general like someone of a different system of belief going on to a web site designed to discuss a specific system of belief, and then asking why they are so "cram it down the peoples throats?"

I understand that these people are around but the image given is that most religious people are like that. (so again to the point hehe) I am just looking for confirmation that religious people, especially in the U.S.A. are just normal people.

Click to expand...

How do you define normal?

P.S. what are those blessing purchases offered on your site?

Click to expand...

A way to gift people with website money/credits.

Danielstri · Jan 20, 2012

Wow very good answers.

I think I have grasped this situation well enough and thanks again for your answers.

It's good to hear that people are just people and not walking opinions

I wish you the best of luck.

Regards-
Daníel.S.R

Danielstri · Jan 20, 2012

drich0150:

1: I have no specific examples but what comes to mind is kids being kicked out of their homes for questioning god. But mostly the real hate posts are pretty vague. People of anger usually don't make good arguements.

2: By normal I mean none delusional, i.e. not being controlled by a certain aspect of their lives to a point that it disrupts their life and the life of those around them. Crazy eyes you know.

3: Oh neato.

hedrick · Jan 20, 2012

Danielstri said:
drich0150:

1: I have no specific examples but what comes to mind is kids being kicked out of their homes for questioning god. But mostly the real hate posts are pretty vague. People of anger usually don't make good arguements.

Yikes! Christians have varying levels of acceptance, just as non-Christians do. But most of us understand that part of growing up is coming to have independent opinions.

I have definitely heard of problems with differing moral codes. E.g. some parents don't want sexual activities happening in their home that they don't approve of. I can sort of understand that, although it seems like it ought to be possible to come up with some way to live together. In the various advice groups here you'll see a number of situations where eventually (hopefully after they've graduated from high school) kids find they have to get out of the house. I'd bet that happens with atheists too.

I work with a couple of teens each year from our confirmation class. Most churches do something like that in the early teens. The idea is that kids mostly grow up as Christians because their parents are. But at some point they have to take responsibility for their own faith. It actually worries me if all the kids end up getting confirmed. It suggests that they're not making their own decision. I'd rather have them say they're not ready. There's a reasonable chance that later as they get more experience things will "click". But if they do it just because their parents want it, I'm afraid that as soon as they leave home they'll abandon faith and maybe not think about it again.

But you'll see varying degrees of flexibility from posters here. I'm from the liberal end of Christianity.

razeontherock · Jan 20, 2012

Danielstri said:
I have explored faith and it does not call to me at all.

Hi and welcome to CF!

I find this statement of yours here to contradict itself. Why would you have explored faith if it did not "call to you?" Might I suggest that instead it obviously DID call to you, but the info you found made no sense to you, and may have been faulty? Or was simply presented in a way foreign to you, and therefore misunderstood?

Danielstri said:
Regardless and to my point, I have been browsing reddit for a few years, and now it has become a sort of a faith hate site and anti-religious posts flood everything. Is there anything to what these people are saying about religious people being too forward with their faith and trying to "cram it down peoples throats" so to speak?
I understand that these people are around but the image given is that most religious people are like that. (so again to the point hehe) I am just looking for confirmation that religious people, especially in the U.S.A. are just normal people.

My POV on the States (where I live) is that NOTHING is in any way normal any more. Our society is increasingly polarized, and this is whipped into a frenzy by our media, as much as possible. I truthfully find all of it to be utterly absurd, and also point out that anybody with real money has moved out of the Country, or is making plans to do so.

We're in a horrible shape, and witnessing this "fall of Rome" will be better from wherever you are ...

Xpistis sopheiaX · Jan 21, 2012

Religion and Atheism are so incompatible that I think it is easy to perceive the other side as "extremist."

When both sides are two busy telling each other what they should believe, nobody takes time to actually listen to what the other is saying. This is really unproductive, and IMHO when discussing anything with someone of a differing worldview one should do more listening then talking. Maybe you will learn something!

lesliedellow · Jan 21, 2012

Danielstri said:
I am just looking for confirmation that religious people, especially in the U.S.A. are just normal people.

If I thought that all atheists were like the new atheists, I would have no very high opinion of atheists, and, if I relied exclusively upon the internet for evidence, I might have a hard time finding any atheist who wasn't a strident new atheist.

There are fundamentalists amongst both theists and atheists, and, because of the amount of noise they make, they can severely embarrass the majority who are not bigots.

drich0150 · Jan 21, 2012

Danielstri said:
1:I have no specific examples but what comes to mind is kids being kicked out of their homes for questioning god.

I am not familiar with any bible verse that commands that. If there is no such command then those who practice such things are doing so of their own accord, apart from God or His plan for Christianity.

But mostly the real hate posts are pretty vague. People of anger usually don't make good arguments.

, Indeed.

2: By normal I mean none delusional, i.e. not being controlled by a certain aspect of their lives to a point that it disrupts their life and the life of those around them.

Then for them that would be normal would it not? Without any defined standard like the bible, how can you judge what is "normal" and what is not? Is the popular culture your only guide? What if you lived in Hitler's Germany just before WWII, and the popular culture was your only guide? Then you would think just like the millions of Nazis who followed Hitler thinking everything was "Normal," and anyone who apposed you was crazy.

So my question to you is how do you know you are not the crazy one now, for only using the popular culture as your only guide of "normalcy/morality?"

Crazy eyes you know.

like this?

lucaspa · Jan 26, 2012

Danielstri said:
Regardless and to my point, I have been browsing reddit for a few years, and now it has become a sort of a faith hate site and anti-religious posts flood everything. Is there anything to what these people are saying about religious people being too forward with their faith and trying to "cram it down peoples throats" so to speak?

There is some truth to the claim that religious people have/are trying to "cram it down peoples throats". After all, Charlemagne converted the Saxons by killing those who didn't accept Christianity. Their choice was Christian or dead.

Today in the United States we have a vocal minority who have combined their religion and their politics. Thus, the Tea Party is composed mostly of Fundamentalists who want everyone to accept their view of religion and their view of what that religion says. For instance, Rick Santorum uses his Fundamentalism to deny civil rights to gays. The Catholic bishops want to use their religious views on pregnancy and sex to deny contraceptives for women as part of the health care benefits for universities and medical schools that are affiliated with the Catholic Church. Both of those, IMO, are "cramming their religion down people's throats".

OTOH, the vast majority of Christians feel as you do about tolerance toward other faiths (including the faith of atheism, fortunately for you

). Remember that, in all the law suits to prevent creationism from being taught in public school science class, the plaintiffs (those against creationism being taught) have all been Christian (or Jewish). Not an atheist in the bunch.

BTW, I have recently been to Reddit and many people there are virulently anti-theism. The major atheist myths and dogmas are repeated as true there.

Sketcher · Jan 26, 2012

lucaspa said:
Today in the United States we have a vocal minority who have combined their religion and their politics. Thus, the Tea Party is composed mostly of Fundamentalists who want everyone to accept their view of religion and their view of what that religion says. For instance, Rick Santorum uses his Fundamentalism to deny civil rights to gays. The Catholic bishops want to use their religious views on pregnancy and sex to deny contraceptives for women as part of the health care benefits for universities and medical schools that are affiliated with the Catholic Church. Both of those, IMO, are "cramming their religion down people's throats".

The Tea Party is much more diverse than that, and it's mainly gathered around the issues of overspending and government corruption. There are religious people (not just Christian fundamentalists) and non-religious people involved. Not only that, Catholics aren't even fundamentalists (their belief in papal infallability/sacred tradition is incompatible with the fundamentalist belief in Sola Scriptura).

So to the OP, Christians, even conservative ones, are generally more decent than what our detractors portray us as. My advise to you would be get to know some of us. You'll likely meet people who are young in the faith, and other people who are mature in the faith. They'll be different.

lucaspa · Jan 27, 2012

Sketcher said:
The Tea Party is much more diverse than that, and it's mainly gathered around the issues of overspending and government corruption. There are religious people (not just Christian fundamentalists) and non-religious people involved. Not only that, Catholics aren't even fundamentalists (their belief in papal infallability/sacred tradition is incompatible with the fundamentalist belief in Sola Scriptura).

We are not supposed to be discussing among ourselves. Let me just say that Fundamentalism infiltrates all denominations of Christianity. So yes, there are Fundamentalists who are Catholics, who are trying to say scripture is literal and inerrant. BTW, this version of scripture is different from sola scriptura. Sola scriptura, orgininally by Luther, only said that scripture alone (not priests) would lead you to salvation.

Methodism has also had attempted infiltration by Fundamentalists. So far, the UMC has resisted that to the extent that the Fundamentalists within the UMC have had to form their own denominations, i.e. the Wesleyan Church and the Evangelical Methodist Church.

So to the OP, Christians, even conservative ones, are generally more decent than what our detractors portray us as.

I agree. And I agree that those that are mature in their faith are different. They are likely to be kindler, gentler, and more tolerant of others. Like any large group of people, we have a small percentage of less desirables that are very vocal and distort the overall picture of the group.

Sketcher · Jan 28, 2012

lucaspa said:
So yes, there are Fundamentalists who are Catholics, who are trying to say scripture is literal and inerrant.

If that were true, that wouldn't be a problem.

Danielstri · Jan 30, 2012

Hey raze. You raise a valid point but I think I will have matured enough to explain my thoughts and actions to myself properly. Also I am very sorry to hear about the state of affairs over there. Every person I met from the U.S.A. has been such a good example of a proper human being that it really saddens me they don't represent the nation a whole.

Leslie: This is also very true but you also have to understand that coming from a completely none religious life and seeing religious people is definitely not the same the other way around. From your point of view my actions and opinions probably seem a bit naive and irresponsible (Not sure about this but you know) whereas to me religion just seems alien. In hindsight it is pretty obvious however it's always better to get it straight from the people.

Again thanks for all the good answers. Hope everything works out.

JesusFreak4L · Jan 30, 2012

Daniel! Welcome to the forums!

First off,unfortunately Christians have gotten the bad rap of being terrible people, we have gotten the image of Bible thumpers who don't care about the person but rather cramming the Bible down peoples throats!

However,

There are normal believers out there who are genuine in the way they treat their beliefs and the way they treat those who don't know Christ yet! You just have to find the right group because there are definitely a bunch of crazies out there but yet there are a bunch of good Christians out there!

Blessings!

lucaspa · Feb 1, 2012

Sketcher said:
If that were true, that wouldn't be a problem.

It appears that you agree that the Bible is literal and inerrant. However, Catholic theology has always held that the Bible is inerrant on theological matters, but not that it is literal and inerrant in other subjects that it touches -- such as the age of the earth and the order of creation. Also, Catholics have always held that God has 2 books -- scripture and Creation -- and believers should not ignore one of them.

So yes, it is a problem because the Fundamentalists want to change Catholicism. For you, that might not be a problem if you think Fundamentalism is "right". But for those Catholics who do not think Fundamentalism is correct, it means the Fundamentalists are trying to force a belief down their throats. One of the reason there are over 20,000 Christian denominations is that there is a diversity of belief among Christians. Rather than force change upon a denomination, Fundamentalists can join a denomination that already holds that belief.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Wesleyans believe in the quadrilateral as a means of interpreting the Bible. That means that we use all of scripture (not just the isolated verse), tradition, reason, and experience. I suspect you would think it a problem if Wesleyans tried to infiltrate your denomination and have you interpret the Bible that way.

Sketcher · Feb 2, 2012

I've got a good response to you lucaspa, but the discussion we're having is not for this thread or for this forum. Check your PMs.

lucaspa · Feb 2, 2012

Sketcher said:
I've got a good response to you lucaspa, but the discussion we're having is not for this thread or for this forum. Check your PMs.

Did that. FYI, since notifications come up when you sign in, it was not necessary to post this.

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