But logically how could it ever be compromised if you give the unborn personhood?
I would point to Thomson's essay.
I have a question for ya. If you were to set up a society from scratch…what rules would you put in place so that this community had boundaries and were able to live harmoniously? Could you name a few? How would you protect the innocent from the evil?
Well the normal stuff would be illegal: murder, theft, etc. I would emphasis income equality to decrease crime. Not totally equality... some people deserve millions. Rehabilitation for those that have a chance to be rehabilitated. Harsh punishment for those that have little hope. Try to work things that might be considered immoral for good. EG: Legalise prostitution , legalise drugs (so we don't waste money on fighting it), make a safe alternative for pedophiles and try to make people think it is an illness, something to go to the doctor about.
I hope you see you see how I am working this roughly.
They don't give the unborn personhood….yet if you hurt a pregnant woman's child in the womb whether an accident or on purpose like Scott Peterson did….you are criminally held accountable. I thought this pro-abort group here said it wasn't really a person…that it should have no rights. How do you give rights to something that isn't a person?
I assume it is because it emotionally harms the woman and because if the child is born it will be a person who has been harmed.
I think she is an immoral person. How someone could say this is beyond me. But hey Margaret Sanger said the same thing….and Hitler acted it out. Don't tell me you agree with her…….sigh.
I thought all she argued for is that abortion should be legal? Not to kill all the babies.
Well Roe was based on a lie. She was never gang raped. She was coaxed into testifying that this happened. So SCOTUS wanted it legal only for the hard cases like this. But today you don't need a hard case to get one…its on demand and now almost the majority of women in the country get abortions…and will get multiple ones during their lifetimes.
I don't think people using abortion as a contraceptive is a good thing. I also wouldn't make it illegal to have multiple abortions though.
If it was illegal…more babies would be saved…and that is a good thing for those who are pro-life. Yes just like slavery in the South. It was the norm…and things changed didn't it? Based on what you just said….we should never have gay marriage…because it has never been legal. People expect marriage to be between one man and one woman. Am I right? Or are you just using your bias on what should be legal and what should not?
I'm not trying to argue that things are a certain way and therefore we shouldn't change. I'm just trying to say that changing the law would harm women. Those things didn't work in the same way. Its just one consideration.
Why not all drugs? I might like a drug that you want illegal. Why should you have the right to tell me what I can take into my own body? And why do you have the right to tell me I can't sell what I bought to someone who owns their own body? If you don't want to use this drug you don't want illegal…then don't use it but don't tell me I can't?
Well I guess with the worse drugs it could end up affecting society as a whole. The addiction is able to destroy a life and so one can't stop it if they figure out it is bad. People might start it when they are young and naive and not be able to stop. The only way it would be possible is if the age of usage was high and making there severe punishment for giving it to those under age. I would rather paint those drugs as evil though, and that is much more realistic than saying all drugs are evil.
Do you get my point in all this? You could apply the "I own my own body you have no right to enslave me to your morals" to anything. Safe should not come into play at all. People do unsafe things all the time…look at race car drivers, circus high flyers, sky-divers, mountain climbing…etc.
It is the addictive and dangerous nature of them that I have the problem with.
Smoking is not promoted anymore. People are looked down on today for smoking and most places don't permit it anymore. Personally if I own an establishment it should be my choice whether or not to allow it. But then we do have rules in our country don't we? Drinking is promoted and our kids make it a game to get drunk. IMO it is much worse than drugs…how many people are killed on our roads by pot smokers?
They could put breathalyzers in cars to make them start up.
And should underaged children be able to visit them? Underaged girls can get abortions without permission…..so should our children be able to do what they want to do without parental supervision?
No, in my opinion. They can wait a little longer. I would probably change the age of consent laws a little though. Nothing major.
Why should we not provide safe places for our children to have sex? They are gonna do it anyway aren't they?
If we teach safe sex and make contraception available then they can do it safely.
Of course I am playing devils advocate on this I think you know that.
I know
They are going to have sex anyway…they are going to experiment with drugs….so lets provide places for them to do them safe.
Teach safe drug use, but don't encourage it.
Well today she is in her second year of college and perfectly healthy. She is brilliant…and the law you want legal would give other women the right to kill at this gestational age. I find that barbaric. No one should be allowed to kill like this. I can't believe you feel the way you do.
But I am sure that I could have lots of babies and bring them up well into intelligent children. Do I therefore have a duty to have lots of sex or do men have a duty to rape me if I don't fulfil my duty? From my point of view both are potential people. I could have been aborted but if that had happened they would have had a child in my place. That child doesn't exist because I live.
What do you feel when you look at holocaust pictures. Do you think they too should be banned? Those people didn't really go through that much did they? Its all propaganda and something to just tug at the emotions. And God forbid we do that and we are monsters. I think you get my point.
I think the holocaust pictures convey the facts. In fact they probably don't convey enough of the pain of the people. The sickening nature of what happened and how the people felt are moral considerations. I don't think the shape of a body is a moral consideration normally.
Ok then tell me something a newborn can do or think or say that a nine month old in the womb can't do? Can a newborn survive without help? Can a three month old survive without help? What does a newly born child do after birth that he couldn't do while in the womb a few seconds before he is born?
This isn't my view. You are talking to me, not some random pro-choicer/pro-abort. I would like to think you are talking to me and not throwing arguments at me without consider what I think.
No the pro-abort side wants abortion illegal…when the blob of tissue starts looking human like a little tiny cute…cuddly baby.
It does make a difference emotionally, but I don't believe it plays a big role in moral decision making.
Does a braindead person lose its personhood? Does someone in a coma lose its personhood because they don't know what is going on?
Someone who is braindead is dead and so has no personhood. Someone is a coma but has brain activity could have personhood. It could be quite a hellish existence though. It makes me sad to think about....
Should mentally handicapped people be treated less then people who think and act normally and know much more about what is going on?
They should have rights. I don't know enough to talk about this subject though.
Not to the child in the womb your not.
What is the most immoral thing there is? Of course this is your opinion…but have at it.
On a personal level: Murder, torture, enslavement. They are all high level evils.
On a worldwide scale: Absolute poverty and war.
Sorry for the length of this post.