There is no OSAS

Lindas Place said:

I just show you the scriptures that clearly show when they believed and Judas was already gone... read the whole book of John or at least the scripture I post....

Click to expand...

I take you do not have an answer as to how the Judas and the other disciples raised the dead or performed miracles, then? How could anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ drive out demons?

God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. Acts 19:11-16

Jesus is God... If we kept God's commandments, then there was no need for Jesus to die... He would have simply said keep them.... no need for a Savior....

Click to expand...

You said we cannot love as Jesus loved us. So, my question, is why would Jesus give us a commandment we are unable to keep?

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35

Lindas Place said:

can you see it now?


Judas had already left to betray Jesus (John 13:30)
If the disciples obey; the Holy Spirit will be with them FOREVER (John 14:16)
Jesus promises not to leave the disciples as orphans (John 14:18)
The disciples must (believe) in Jesus; the true vine. (John 15:1)
The disciples must remained in Jesus and His Word (John 15:7)
Jesus will send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26)
Jesus tells the disciples it is for their good that He going is away (John 16:7)
Jesus tells the disciples He will send the Holy Spirit (John 16:7)
The disciples believed at last!
(John 16:31)
The disciples had obeyed the word (John 17:6-7)
Jesus was crucified (John 19)
Jesus was resurrected (John 20:1)
The disciples received the Holy Spirit (John 20:22.)

Click to expand...

Are you telling me, that Peter did not really believe when he said Jesus Christ was the Messiah?

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." Matthew 16:15-17

Tell me, how were the disciples able to drive out demons and heal the sick when Jesus Christ sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel?

Lion King said:

Are you telling me, that Peter did not really believe when he said Jesus Christ was the Messiah?

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." Matthew 16:15-17

Tell me, how were the disciples able to drive out demons and heal the sick when Jesus Christ sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel?

Click to expand...

Jesus said they "believed at last" ... in John 16:31 I believe Jesus was telling the truth....



If the disciples obey; the Holy Spirit will be with them FOREVER (John 14:16)
Jesus promises not to leave the disciples as orphans (John 14:18)
The disciples must (believe) in Jesus; the true vine. (John 15:1)
The disciples must remained in Jesus and His Word (John 15:7)
Jesus will send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26)
Jesus tells the disciples it is for their good that He going is away (John 16:7)
Jesus tells the disciples He will send the Holy Spirit (John 16:7)

The disciples believed at last! (John 16:31)

John 16:31
31 “You believe at last!” Jesus answered.

The disciples had obeyed the word (John 17:6-7)
Jesus was crucified (John 19)
Jesus was resurrected (John 20:1)
The disciples received the Holy Spirit (John 20:22.)

Lindas Place said:

Jesus said they "believed at last" ... in John 16:31 I believe Jesus was telling the truth....



If the disciples obey; the Holy Spirit will be with them FOREVER (John 14:16)
Jesus promises not to leave the disciples as orphans (John 14:18)
The disciples must (believe) in Jesus; the true vine. (John 15:1)
The disciples must remained in Jesus and His Word (John 15:7)
Jesus will send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26)
Jesus tells the disciples it is for their good that He going is away (John 16:7)
Jesus tells the disciples He will send the Holy Spirit (John 16:7)

The disciples believed at last! (John 16:31)

John 16:31
31 “You believe at last!” Jesus answered.

The disciples had obeyed the word (John 17:6-7)
Jesus was crucified (John 19)
Jesus was resurrected (John 20:1)
The disciples received the Holy Spirit (John 20:22.)

Click to expand...

It's been nice. Good day.

Lion King said:

It's been nice. Good day.

Click to expand...

Nice talking to you as well, God bless you!

God is love, we should love more and more as we grow in Christ.

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, Philippians 1:9

Sieben said:

I don't believe in pre-destination. Because it makes God out to be a narrowminded God I would rather not believe in.

Click to expand...

Ephesians 1:5
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:11

11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

dollarsbill said:

Ephesians 1:5
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:11

11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Click to expand...

Who does the Father choose to spend eternity with Him?

John 12:32
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

John 3:16
1"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 2:2
He [Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

John 16:8-9
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;

Who chooses to spend eternity with the Father?

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in (JESUS) his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in (JESUS) the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in (JESUS) him is not condemned, but whoever does notbelieve stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in (JESUS) him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in (JESUS)him will never be put to shame."

12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on (JESUS) him,

13 for, "Everyone who calls on (JESUS) the name of the Lord will be saved."
　
Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him TAKE THE FREE GIFT of the water of life.

Lindas Place said:

Who does the Father choose to spend eternity with Him?

Click to expand...

Whoever He desired.

I guess if we judge God by mans standards such as being narrow minded predestination is hard to grasp. But if we take Him at His word and for Who He is creater of all and sovereign all over all then it is pretty narrow minded for men to believe they have any part to do in salvation when Salvation is of the Lord..

dollarsbill said:

Whoever He desired.

Click to expand...

The more you think about it, the more you are drawn to this answer.

The lovely idea that all of us are equally able to understand anything, let alone choose God, is impossible as a proposition. We like to talk that way but it's not realistic.

Albion said:

The more you think about it, the more you are drawn to this answer.

The lovely idea that all of us are equally able to understand anything, let alone choose God, is impossible as a proposition. We like to talk that way but it's not realistic.

Click to expand...

Proximity with equality is in this case comfortable enough for me.
That we share interest in Him can be a good thing, God willing.

truthHurts77 said:

There is no OSAS

Click to expand...

Truth indeed!

To the Saints:

Romans 11:20-22
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

dollarsbill said:

Truth indeed!

To the Saints:

Romans 11:20-22
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Click to expand...

Kind of ironic that to avoid being cut off is to remain in Gods kindness. So, those who proclaim the loss of salvation of other believers is kindness?

Fact is there are exactly zero named instances in the N.T. where a believer is said to lose their salvation and are heading to hell. Not a one.

The doctrine of losing salvation can certainly apply to this present life, as in being ensnared again by the power of evil. That does not equate to Divine Abandonment on the eternal scale. Scores of believers have fallen back into evil. Warriors do encounter that possibility. That does not equate to the eternal fire toss. Were there a couple of examples of the fact applied to a couple of believers it would be worthy of consideration. But there is nothing to substantiate that position.

God Is Love. Love is KIND. And Love certainly doesn't abandon.

squint

But there is nothing to substantiate that position.

Click to expand...

True. but that position is nonetheless essential to maintain the "free will" myth - man's rebellion against God's sivereignity. It is so much a part of our nature we think it is common sense.

Rick Otto said:

True. but that position is nonetheless essential to maintain the "free will" myth - man's rebellion against God's sivereignity. It is so much a part of our nature we think it is common sense.

Click to expand...

Hey Rickster. Yeah, freewill. If only my freewill could free me. Fact is I don't want to spend eternity with my own mind anyway. Too limited.

s

squint said:

Kind of ironic that to avoid being cut off is to remain in Gods kindness. So, those who proclaim the loss of salvation of other believers is kindness?

Click to expand...

God commanded His people to echo His warnings, not to sweep them under the rug.

Fact is there are exactly zero named instances in the N.T. where a believer is said to lose their salvation and are heading to hell. Not a one.

Click to expand...

Don't need any. The warning I just quoted is totally sufficient. Written to the Saints: "otherwise you also will be cut off." So it certainly is possible.

The doctrine of losing salvation can certainly apply to this present life, as in being ensnared again by the power of evil. That does not equate to Divine Abandonment on the eternal scale. Scores of believers have fallen back into evil. Warriors do encounter that possibility. That does not equate to the eternal fire toss.

Click to expand...

It does if they die before repenting.

Were there a couple of examples of the fact applied to a couple of believers it would be worthy of consideration. But there is nothing to substantiate that position.

God Is Love. Love is KIND. And Love certainly doesn't abandon.

squint

Click to expand...

Does love drown everyone on Earth but 8, including those who are totally helpless? Would you call that love and kindness?

dollarsbill said:

God commanded His people to echo His warnings, not to sweep them under the rug.

Click to expand...

Did you see any denial of potential falling into evil in this present life? Nope. This does not equate to the eternal torch in the lake fate.

Don't need any. The warning I just quoted is totally sufficient. Written to the Saints: "otherwise you also will be cut off." So it certainly is possible.

Click to expand...

As to this present life? Certainly? Whom among us is perfect anyway?

It does if they die before repenting.

Click to expand...

We will likely vary dramatically on that matter. If we as believers understand Jesus' Words, that where The Word is sown, Satan enters to steal, it is very unlikely that we are alone in mind or in heart. I would personally never expect the tempter to repent or to turn from evil, which is what that operator is. So it is not just a question of any particular believer, but also the tempter.

Does love drown everyone on Earth but 8, including the helpless? Would you call that love and kindness?

Click to expand...

The method of reaping hasn't really changed much from the beginning. All people die one way or another. No sense whistling past the fact.

I don't believe God intended to leave us in a wet pile of dust forever.

squint

Don't need any. The warning I just quoted is totally sufficient. Written to the Saints: "otherwise you also will be cut off." So it certainly is possible

Click to expand...

Cutting of of salvation isn't possible. He was referring to the same cutting off His providence the way the Jews were cut off & sent into exile. He is talking about temporal, not eternal consequences.

Does love drown everyone on Earth but 8, including the helpless? Would you call that love and kindness?

Click to expand...

Considering the consequences if He hadn't... yes.

Rick Otto said:

Cutting of of salvation isn't possible.

Click to expand...

Several here keep saying that, but you offer no proof. I think it is what they want to believe. We are to STRIVE to enter God's Kingdom. Are you striving?

Luke 13:23-24
23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.