In Atheists We Distrust

hollyda · Jan 19, 2012

rturner76 said:
Atheists are a Godless bunch if you ask me

MachZer0 · Jan 19, 2012

Grizzly said:
I like to paraphrase Mike Huckabee. I'm an atheist, but I'm not angry about it. Atheism doesn't define me. It's a side product of my belief that rationality is a virtue. My reasoning tells me that a belief in the Christian God is not warranted. But I am fine with those whose reasoning has led them in the opposite direction. In a country were Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are held up as ideals, this really shouldn't be a problem.

That doesn't really sound like a paraphrase of Mike Huckabee

trunks2k · Jan 19, 2012

thaumaturgy said:
The most fun thing is when you reveal to someone you are an atheist immediately you have to defend atheism. You have to defend failing to believe something.

When I hear someone say "Oh, I'm a baptist" my first inclination is not to immediately make them defend not being a Presbyterian.

Tell me about it. This was a bit of a sticking point between my fiance and me during the first year or two of our relationship. She's not a religious person so the issue rarely came up, but on the few occasions it did come up I found that I was the one who was doing the defending. It came to a head one time when she asked me why I was getting so upset - I went into a long diatribe about how I'm always asked to defend myself yet I don't ever ask anyone to defend theirs (except under certain circumstances where it's appropriate).

That drove the point home to her. And since then, we've come to a good understanding about everything.

Rion · Jan 19, 2012

hollyda said:
I don't doubt there are nasty atheists out there; there are nasty people of all walks of life. And this could be just because I live in the bible belt and happen to know ten Christians for every one atheist, but with me, it's always been the other way around.

That being said, I do know some truly amazing people who are Christians, have Christian friends, family, and people I would die for. However, in terms of "being rotten," my experience has always come down to "I am a Christian, therefore I can do this and be justified." These also tend to be people who announce themselves as a Christian thirty seconds into an introductory conversation. I wonder if these nasty atheists you mentioned do the same and/or get overly confrontational.

Oh, I know every group has them, but like I said, I know I am wary so I have to compensate for that.

As for the behavior, yes, that mostly. I especially love the ones who think there shouldn't be crosses on the outside of churches, as that offends them. The best/worst was the guy who told me all religious people should be steralized and put into camps, so their "disease" could die out. Nope, not crazy at all.

Self Improvement said:
That is atheist, actually.

Now that you have received your first lesson in spelling, we can carry on.

Oh no, I misspelled a word on my tiny phone keyboard. You have surely discredited my entire post by pointing it out. I am sure that your post is simply a sign of your superior debating skills, and not some form of OCD or a pitiful need to make yourself feel superior without any need for
actual self improvement. I shall now retire from the internets in shame.

Actually, my stupid autocorrect should have caught it. I guess the phone makers hate atheists or something.

Grizzly · Jan 19, 2012

MachZer0 said:
That doesn't really sound like a paraphrase of Mike Huckabee

He once said "I'm a conservative, but I am not angry about it".

Huckabee missed his moment « Hot Air Headlines

I liked his stance on that.

PS. Maybe paraphrase wasn't the right word. Modify? Adapt?

Self Improvement · Jan 19, 2012

Rion said:
Oh, I know every group has them, but like I said, I know I am wary so I have to compensate for that.

As for the behavior, yes, that mostly. I especially love the ones who think there shouldn't be crosses on the outside of churches, as that offends them. The best/worst was the guy who told me all religious people should be steralized and put into camps, so their "disease" could die out. Nope, not crazy at all.

Oh no, I misspelled a word on my tiny phone keyboard. You have surely discredited my entire post by pointing it out. I am sure that your post is simply a sign of your superior debating skills, and not some form of OCD or a pitiful need to make yourself feel superior without any need for
actual self improvement. I shall now retire from the internets in shame.

Actually, my stupid autocorrect should have caught it. I guess the phone makers hate atheists or something.

hollyda · Jan 19, 2012

Rion said:
Oh, I know every group has them, but like I said, I know I am wary so I have to compensate for that.

As for the behavior, yes, that mostly. I especially love the ones who think there shouldn't be crosses on the outside of churches, as that offends them. The best/worst was the guy who told me all religious people should be steralized and put into camps, so their "disease" could die out. Nope, not crazy at all.

Yeah, that's a special kind of, umm, special. I've never met anyone who thought/said anything like that, but if I did, they'd get a front-row seats to a verbal smackdown.

I think the thing to do in situations like this, though, is try to focus less on the bat-crap insane people and more on the mainstream/sane, otherwise it's easy to (for lack of a better word) demonize a whole group of people because of the actions of a few. Just an example: my mother is a liberal Christian and opened her own advertising agency ten years ago, alongside a woman I'll call Jackie. Mom and Jackie had been colleagues at a different agency and went into the business together. Jackie owned 30% of the business, and my mother 70%.

Jackie was also an outspoken Christian. This did not bother Mom one bit, as she was raised by a fundamentalist preacher (my grandfather, and the best man in the history of good men). While Mom and Jackie differed on specific theological views, they shared the same core tenants of faith.

Over the years, Jackie would put in around 25-30 hours a work week, whereas my mom would put in 50-60. Jackie would spend company time and resources on church events (I was utilized to help her print and distribute church material with company resources more than once). More and more, Jackie came in less and less. Eventually, Mom and Jackie came to a decision where Mom would buy out Jackie's part of the company, since Jackie wanted to focus on being a fulltime mother, which is something Mom supported, as she wished she could have done the same.

A few months after Jackie left, Mom began noticing things. The books weren't adding up. Several even longer weeks and investigation later, we discover Jackie has embezzled more than $100k from the company. Jackie was married, had two kids, and lived in a mansion that would put the Winchester house to shame. My mother had pulled herself up after paying off my father's debt (which she took on after the divorce because she knew he couldn't handle it), singly raised two children, put us through school, and managed to save enough to more or less finance the opening of her company. Even though it's been years since Jackie left, since the legal nightmare ended, my mother is still ostensibly shaken by this incident.

Jackie admitted she was able to do most of this because she donated or contributed a good amount of money to her church, something she knew my mother wouldn't do. She used her faith to excuse her crime.

Jackie is one of those "special Christians." I think about her whenever I run across someone who seems entitled because of their faith, but it has never once been an excuse for me to classify all Christians as nasty people. Most people I know are Christian, and by that token most are honest, loving, and trustworthy. But I would never judge someone's virtue because they claim to be a Christian -- and if it's someone I just met, that would likely make me less inclined to trust them based on experience. This is hardly limited to Christians or religion, though. People can hide and will behind anything.

That actions speak louder than words thing might be a cliche, but it's a true cliche.

Rion · Jan 19, 2012

She should have been prosecuted, and the church should've given it back.

And I don't judge people on if they are atheists, I am just wary when I *knowingly* first meet one. If it's something you bring up immediately, I realize I might have another cuckoolander in my midsts.

MachZer0 · Jan 19, 2012

Grizzly said:
He once said "I'm a conservative, but I am not angry about it".

Huckabee missed his moment « Hot Air Headlines

I liked his stance on that.

PS. Maybe paraphrase wasn't the right word. Modify? Adapt?

hollyda · Jan 19, 2012

Rion said:
She should have been prosecuted, and the church should've given it back.

I agree completely. Sadly, the way things work is with court costs and the like, we would have been tied up even longer. We did take her to court, but with depleted funds and the like we only got back a small percent. Trust me, I implored my mother to do this a number of times...especially since it's been x amount of years now and Mom brought Jackie up as early as last Christmas. It's had a long-term effect in ways I don't think anyone but Mom knows for certain.

And I don't judge people on if they are atheists, I am just wary when I *knowingly* first meet one.

With me, I assume most people I meet are Christian and keep my mouth shut unless they ask where I go to church.

If it's something you bring up immediately, I realize I might have another cuckoolander in my midsts.

I think this is a good rule of thumb for pretty much anything. If someone brought up Bigfoot upon first meeting, that would trigger a warning.

stamperben · Jan 19, 2012

I'm wary of those who bring up the Loch Ness monster or Ron Paul in the first conversation.

seashale76 · Jan 19, 2012

I know and am related to a lot of atheists. Atheism is very underreported in the Bible Belt, I think. A lot of my students and their parents are very open regarding their atheism. I've not heard anyone I know say they've been picked on/demonized for their lack of belief. However, I do live in a relatively urban area, so maybe that's why I don't see the evil atheist vibe from people around here.

craigerNY · Jan 19, 2012

stamperben said:
I'm wary of those who bring up the Loch Ness monster or Ron Paul in the first conversation.

You don't have to worry about the Loch Ness Monster anymore. Ron Paul slayed it.

Cute Tink · Jan 19, 2012

craigerNY said:
You don't have to worry about the Loch Ness Monster anymore. Ron Paul slayed it.

lol

I think a lot of people distrust atheists for a rather simple reason and we see it on these forums fairly often: some people don't have a clue what an atheist really is. Some seem to think that we are devil worshippers, folks who believe we are our own gods, people who hate god or just people who want to engage in rampant debauchery so we choose to create our own bizarre morality to justify bad behavior. Would you trust someone if you thought he/she believed like that?

stamperben · Jan 19, 2012

craigerNY said:
You don't have to worry about the Loch Ness Monster anymore. Ron Paul slayed it.

thaumaturgy · Jan 19, 2012

Rion said:
I personally tend to be wary of athiests, but that's because of some nasty individuals I encountered growing up.

At my dad's funeral a close relative of mine, who is one of the most pious and Christian of Christians decided to take some time to insult me for no apparent reason. Just kind of out of the blue. As I was talking to a friend who had come to my dad's funeral.

This relative, the pious Christian's Christian is an evangelical who has made a LOT of money and tithes a lot and works with various Christian charities to get bibles handed out.

He's also one of the least pleasant humans I've ever met. His marriage crumbled years ago, 2 of his kids don't seem to have much to do with him, one will when she needs some $$$, the one that stayed back with him apparently has had his share of "troubles with the bottle" and is, himself, quite pious and one of the least pleasant human beings I've ever met. (Last I heard his marriage was also on the rocks, guess it's harder than they thought it would be when God blessed their union).

They are rude, insensitive, will insult you to your face with a smirk.

Basically pretty awful people.

But I don't assume that all christians are like that. Because most of my friends are Christians and they are mostly all really good folks!

Wish you could overcome your bigotry based on a small sample. But if not, then just remember, we can say the same thing about Christians.

That being said, the poll's not surprising. The only time you hear about one in the news is when a dumb one is causing trouble.

I will agree here that many of the causus belli that public atheists choose are kind of silly, but often it is in service to the ideal that "freedom of religion" also includes "freedom from religion".

Face it, America is one of the most religious developed nation on earth, so if they can't handle a tiny, tiny minority of loudmouths who occasionally are atheists then really what good is their "faith"...because it seems to me they have it all and are complaining about the crumbs we atheists get.

If the only time you heard of a Baptist was when they were trying to force a religious symbol off of a state seal or putting up billboards mocking others' faith, you'd be a PR nightmare too.[/quote]

thaumaturgy · Jan 19, 2012

stamperben said:
I'm wary of those who bring up the Loch Ness monster or Ron Paul in the first conversation.

Me too, but I extend it to anyone who:

1. Brings up the Loch Ness Monster or Ron Paul in the first sentence
2. Brings up the Loch Ness Monster AND Ron Paul in any sentence.

thaumaturgy · Jan 19, 2012

craigerNY said:
You don't have to worry about the Loch Ness Monster anymore. Ron Paul slayed it.

That's what Ron Paul wants you to think!

hollyda · Jan 19, 2012

thaumaturgy said:
That's what Ron Paul wants you to think!

Not. Enough. Bleach. Must. Scrub. Brain.

stamperben · Jan 19, 2012

thaumaturgy said:
Me too, but I extend it to anyone who:

1. Brings up the Loch Ness Monster or Ron Paul in the first sentence
2. Brings up the Loch Ness Monster AND Ron Paul in any sentence.

That was my original thought, but I didn't want to insult Nessie.

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