New wine, or old wine?

Avodat said:

In Luke 5:37ff Yeshua says:

"No one puts new wine into old wineskins; if he does, the new wine will burst the skins and be spilled, and the skins too will be ruined. On the contrary, new wine must be put into freshly prepared wineskins. Besides that, after drinking old wine, people do not want the new; because they say, the old is good enough.""

What is the 'new wine' and what does the passage mean, particularly the words in bold which appear to reject the 'new wine' in favour of the far better 'old'?

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All of the synoptic gospels put this in the context of traditional fasting. And Luke's version is unique in that it ends with a direct contrast, saying that those who hold to the old ways will find them "tastier" than Yeshua's new way, announcing the coming of the King and his Kingdom.

Avodat said:

In Luke 5:37ff Yeshua says:

"No one puts new wine into old wineskins; if he does, the new wine will burst the skins and be spilled, and the skins too will be ruined. On the contrary, new wine must be put into freshly prepared wineskins. Besides that, after drinking old wine, people do not want the new; because they say, the old is good enough.""

What is the 'new wine' and what does the passage mean, particularly the words in bold which appear to reject the 'new wine' in favour of the far better 'old'?

Click to expand...

Its a corruption of text. The New Wine could be the New Covenant, and the Old Wine could be the Old Covenant. Compare to Matthew and Mark: See "New wine."

Avodat said:

How, by whom and when?

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Logical deduction. Compare these scriptures.

Matthew 9:17-19
Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.” 18 While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, “My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live.” 19 Jesus got up and went with him, and so did his disciples.

Mark 2:22-24
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.” 23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grain fields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Luke 5:37-39
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the new wine will burst the skins; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38 No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.’”

For more info see Old Testament under "New Wine."

FFOZ did an article on this which I believe is correct...and in the broader section...take Mark....

This is about Jesus choosing disciples (Mark 1:16-20, Mark 2:13:14). Searching out His yoke Mark 2:15-17....Then the disciples of John and Pharisees compared to Jesus' which is a question about His yoke and something else. The quesiton of fasting...parable about the bridegroom...then the parable about wineskins and torn cloths. The parable of bridegroom is an answer to why they weren't fasting and the latter parables are about who He is looking for in disciples.

Take M.Pirke Avot 4:25 Elisha, the son of Abuyah, said, "If one learns as a child, what is it like? Like ink written in clean paper. If one learns as an old man, what is it like? Like ink written on used paper."

4:26 R. Jose, the son of Judah, of Chefar Babli said, "He who learns from the young, to what is he like? To one who eats unripe grapes, and drinks wine from his vat, And he who learns from old, to what is he like? To one who eats ripe grapes, and drinks old wine."

Jesus is looking and choosing disciples with fresh minds to learn His yoke.

Hey David,
LTNS! Good call, BTW. Seems contextually sound.

Many Blessings,
Phillip

talmidim said:

Hey David,
LTNS! Good call, BTW. Seems contextually sound.

Many Blessings,
Phillip

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thanks

Avodat said:

So is it because of a corruption of the text and Covenants (MTAA)?

Any other variations?

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MichaelTheeArchAngel said:

Logical deduction. Compare these scriptures.

Matthew 9:17-19
Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.” 18 While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, “My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live.” 19 Jesus got up and went with him, and so did his disciples.

Mark 2:22-24
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.” 23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grain fields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

Luke 5:37-39
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the new wine will burst the skins; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38 No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.’”

For more info see Old Testament under "New Wine."

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Fermented grapes are not better. New wine is grape juice. Scripture does not approve of fermented drinks. Yahshua being an ancient being would not waste his time with such foolish words, [about old wine] but he would reaffirm what Yahwah has spoken through the prophets. New wine and oil "also" have symbolic meaning.

Joel 2:19
The LORD replied to them: “I am sending you grain, new wine and olive oil, enough to satisfy you fully; never again will I make you an object of scorn to the nations.

Joel 2:24
The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.

Joel 3:18
“In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain will flow out of the LORD’s house and will water the valley of acacias.

Amos 9:13
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills,

Zechariah 9:17
How attractive and beautiful they will be! Grain will make the young men thrive, and new wine the young women.

New information.. old information...

Yeshua came like a breath of fresh air.. got a lot of minds bubbling over what He was saying.. and for those who tried to fit it into tradition [old skins] it would tear them up.. Had to wrap what He was saying differently.. "outside the box" as we say today... Where God works best.. our understanding is limited.. linear compared to His infinite dimensional view..