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Could it be spiritual as in a mindset rather than a physical identification on one's hand or head?
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Mark of the beast / The seal of God
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There has to be a physical component or how else will the controlling faction be able to enforce the "no buy or sell" rule.Easy G (G²);59528269 said:
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You can enforce a buy or sell rule by examining behavor just as much as you can with having something physical, especially if there's a requirement such as denying Christ to get favors or spiritual battles occurring where spirits can give discernment on things not otherwise known---for the anti Christ and his government will have supernatural power to do what hasn't been done before.
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Not in an absolute manner... if there is a way of going about business and there are loopholes on continuing, then it is the same as all the other attempts to do the buy or sell rule... This one in scripture is the absolute depend on God because if you remain faithful, there is not way out of absolute unless you do depend on Him completely.Easy G (G²);59528872 said:
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There are no loopholes in denying Christ, no more than it was in the scriptures when there were no loopholes in the ways others pronoucned a phrase:
Judges 12:1-4
Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.
Language alone was enough to get people killed...behavior. With behavior being the way others would be identified, there's no way around showing if one believes in Christ or not. Either you acknowledge Christ is the Messiah...and DIE..or you deny He is the Lord and live, in disobediance to what He desires. That can be enforced absolutely since those truly loyal to the Lord would never deny Him no matter what the price.Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.
For one good article on the issue, one can go here to The Spiritual Mark of the Beastjavascript:void(0)
And as one individual said best on the issue:
In the days of John, business contracts in Roman and Greek world were signed and sealed and introduced in the name of a god or deity. The trade or merchant guilds were dedicated to a particular god or deity, and one could only join the guild by swearing allegiance to the Greek or Roman god and goddess. This system of commerce, tied up in Rome, with the worship of the Roman Emperor as a god, meant that all Christians were effectively excluded from commerce by the very nature of the economic system. Christians could not sign contracts in the name of the divine emperor, Apollo, or any other demon deity. Without a signature or allegiance to this beastly system of economics, Christians couldn't join merchant guilds for business or trade. To consent to this form of commerce, to buy and sell, was to deny God and to worship man and a human system of economics as the god of your life! Those who did not submit could not buy or sell. John, it seems, had a very clear image of just who and what this beast was at the time he wrote the book. It wasn't all prophetic future, it was a real problem the Church was facing at the time. The Christians were being told to compromise their faith in order to secure their economic futures.
For the Jews, the number 6 represented the number of man. Man was created on the 6th day. At the time Revelation, the Roman Emperors, or Caesars, were considered divine beings. Citizens were required to prove their loyalty to the State by offering incense as a sacrifice of worship to the Emperor as a god of Rome. The number value of the alphabet of Nero Caesar's name added up to 666. Thus, this number was the number of a Man who symbolized all of man's rebellion against God by making himself to be a god and by requiring others to worship him.
My point is that the worship of the beast is the worship of a human being, swearing allegiance to a human being and a human system of government and economics as one's chief loyalty and object of devotion. Those who submit to this system have already received this mark of the beast, whether they receive it physically on their bodies or not.
The History of the Mark from Ezekiel
Why is unnecessary to have a physical mark or number branded or implanted on your body? If we look at Ezekiel, we will perhaps find a clue as to John's meaning:
Then he said to me, 'Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.' And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the LORD; and behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east. Then he said to me, 'Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too slight a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence, and provoke me further to anger? Lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore I will deal in wrath; my eye will not spare, nor will I have pity; and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.' Then he cried in my ears with a loud voice, saying, 'Draw near, you executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand.' And lo, six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, every man with his weapon for slaughter in his hand, and with them was a man clothed in linen, with a writing case at his side. And they went in and stood beside the bronze altar. Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherubim on which it rested to the threshold of the house; and he called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writing case at his side. And the LORD said to him, 'Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.' And to the others he said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one upon whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary.' So they began with the elders who were before the house. (Ezekiel 8:15-9:6, RSV)
We see here that God puts a spiritual and invisible mark on all who are faithful to him. He marks all those who do not worship the abominations of idols and the false gods that have even been set up within the sacred Temple precinct! The mark is very real, but not visible to the naked eye! It is not a material mark on the skin, but it is visible in the Spirit to God.
What I think we have here in John is the converse of this spiritual mark. This time, instead of the faithful being marked, it is the unfaithful who are marked spiritually because of their devotion to this human economic system and to autocratic leaders who demand religious loyalty from their subjects. This invisible mark of devotion to mammon is the mark of allegiance to man above God; hence it is the number 6, the number of rebellion and idolatry. Why 666? Because while Nero was the historical actor whose name calculated to 666, Nero Caesar becomes in John's mind the symbol of all who worship the world's system of government and economics. And so this passage of scripture was just as true for Christians in John's day as it is for ours. Each of us could succumb to worshipping our present economic system, and a false religious savior, and be asked to give up our obedience to the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Since the number 666 is a symbolic number representing the world's system, it doesn't need to be fulfilled in a literal mark. It is a symbol of devotion to a type of antichrist, which happens in small and subtle ways whenever we are asked to trust government promises and human leaders for our security. Whenever we choose economic security over obedience to the Lord, we are acting in concert with the beast.
The question for the Christians in John's day is: "To whom do you give your ultimate allegiance and what will you be willing to do in order to get money? Will you betray Christ or swear to false gods in order to buy and sell?" The question John posed is as crucial to Christians today as it was in 70 AD
I have before discussed the typological nature of scripture. While Nero is a type of antichrist, he is not the Man of Lawlessness who is to come (2 Thessalonians 2). Nero will not be raised from the dead to take control over the earth, but he represents the type of man who will fulfill the prophecy and seek to be worshipped as god. The key to understanding this scripture then is not to look for some plastic ID card embedded beneath the skin with the prefix 666, but to realize that even Christians could fall prey to receiving an invisible mark of allegiance to a false system of security in a time of great economic upheavals. Will you betray Christians and Christ and report on people to the antichrist just so you can keep your job and maintain your business? Christians faced that challenge in Nazi Germany as they did in John's day. They had to decide to hide Jews or turn them in to the authorities.
Conclusion
The idea of the mark of the beast has both contemporary relevance as well as a future application. Today, each day, we must decide where our ultimate loyalties reside and to Whom. Will we compromise on moral matters to gain a profit, or will we suffer for honesty and integrity in business? Will we seek security in the things of this world, or will we seek security in the Only One who can assure us of our eternal future? Finally, there will come a day, according to Thessalonians, when a man of lawlessness does come who demands that all the earth worship him as god. In that day, those who bow down and sign contracts in this man's name will be allowed to do business and those who do not will be excluded. But this mark, which those who give their allegiance to the beast are to receive, may be visible only to God, who has had them marked on the foreheads [worship of agreement] or on the hand [worship of commerce and labor].
For the Jews, the number 6 represented the number of man. Man was created on the 6th day. At the time Revelation, the Roman Emperors, or Caesars, were considered divine beings. Citizens were required to prove their loyalty to the State by offering incense as a sacrifice of worship to the Emperor as a god of Rome. The number value of the alphabet of Nero Caesar's name added up to 666. Thus, this number was the number of a Man who symbolized all of man's rebellion against God by making himself to be a god and by requiring others to worship him.
My point is that the worship of the beast is the worship of a human being, swearing allegiance to a human being and a human system of government and economics as one's chief loyalty and object of devotion. Those who submit to this system have already received this mark of the beast, whether they receive it physically on their bodies or not.
The History of the Mark from Ezekiel
Why is unnecessary to have a physical mark or number branded or implanted on your body? If we look at Ezekiel, we will perhaps find a clue as to John's meaning:
Then he said to me, 'Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.' And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the LORD; and behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east. Then he said to me, 'Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too slight a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence, and provoke me further to anger? Lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore I will deal in wrath; my eye will not spare, nor will I have pity; and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.' Then he cried in my ears with a loud voice, saying, 'Draw near, you executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand.' And lo, six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, every man with his weapon for slaughter in his hand, and with them was a man clothed in linen, with a writing case at his side. And they went in and stood beside the bronze altar. Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherubim on which it rested to the threshold of the house; and he called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writing case at his side. And the LORD said to him, 'Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.' And to the others he said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one upon whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary.' So they began with the elders who were before the house. (Ezekiel 8:15-9:6, RSV)
What I think we have here in John is the converse of this spiritual mark. This time, instead of the faithful being marked, it is the unfaithful who are marked spiritually because of their devotion to this human economic system and to autocratic leaders who demand religious loyalty from their subjects. This invisible mark of devotion to mammon is the mark of allegiance to man above God; hence it is the number 6, the number of rebellion and idolatry. Why 666? Because while Nero was the historical actor whose name calculated to 666, Nero Caesar becomes in John's mind the symbol of all who worship the world's system of government and economics. And so this passage of scripture was just as true for Christians in John's day as it is for ours. Each of us could succumb to worshipping our present economic system, and a false religious savior, and be asked to give up our obedience to the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Since the number 666 is a symbolic number representing the world's system, it doesn't need to be fulfilled in a literal mark. It is a symbol of devotion to a type of antichrist, which happens in small and subtle ways whenever we are asked to trust government promises and human leaders for our security. Whenever we choose economic security over obedience to the Lord, we are acting in concert with the beast.
The question for the Christians in John's day is: "To whom do you give your ultimate allegiance and what will you be willing to do in order to get money? Will you betray Christ or swear to false gods in order to buy and sell?" The question John posed is as crucial to Christians today as it was in 70 AD
I have before discussed the typological nature of scripture. While Nero is a type of antichrist, he is not the Man of Lawlessness who is to come (2 Thessalonians 2). Nero will not be raised from the dead to take control over the earth, but he represents the type of man who will fulfill the prophecy and seek to be worshipped as god. The key to understanding this scripture then is not to look for some plastic ID card embedded beneath the skin with the prefix 666, but to realize that even Christians could fall prey to receiving an invisible mark of allegiance to a false system of security in a time of great economic upheavals. Will you betray Christians and Christ and report on people to the antichrist just so you can keep your job and maintain your business? Christians faced that challenge in Nazi Germany as they did in John's day. They had to decide to hide Jews or turn them in to the authorities.
Conclusion
The idea of the mark of the beast has both contemporary relevance as well as a future application. Today, each day, we must decide where our ultimate loyalties reside and to Whom. Will we compromise on moral matters to gain a profit, or will we suffer for honesty and integrity in business? Will we seek security in the things of this world, or will we seek security in the Only One who can assure us of our eternal future? Finally, there will come a day, according to Thessalonians, when a man of lawlessness does come who demands that all the earth worship him as god. In that day, those who bow down and sign contracts in this man's name will be allowed to do business and those who do not will be excluded. But this mark, which those who give their allegiance to the beast are to receive, may be visible only to God, who has had them marked on the foreheads [worship of agreement] or on the hand [worship of commerce and labor].
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The real issue is whether or not one's marked, vis. Historically, it was never interpreted as a physical mark in all times, places or cases....and the mark was about actions following it. Thus, it doesn't have to be a chip (per the pop "End Times" viewpoint that was made widespread since the 80s) but rather a way of life that qualifies how one lives....and bear in mind, when others say it must be on their forehead or hand, one must bear in mind what those things symbolized in scripture...for with the head one things and with the hands one performs/makes choices. Thought and Action
With the Mark of the Beast:
He also caused everyone (small and great, rich and poor, free and slave) to obtain a mark on their right hand or on their forehead." (Revelation 13:16)
"Then I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had conquered the beast and his image and the number of his name." (Revelation 15:2)
And the Mark of God:"Then I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had conquered the beast and his image and the number of his name." (Revelation 15:2)
"Then the glory of the God of Israel went up from the cherub where it had rested to the threshold of the temple. He called to the man dressed in linen who had the writing kit at his side. The Lord said to him, “Go through the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of the people who moan and groan over all the abominations practiced in it.” (Ezekiel 9:3-4)
"Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, who had the seal of the living God. He shouted out with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given permission to damage the earth and the sea: “Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees until we have put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Now I heard the number of those who were marked with the seal, one hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from all the tribes of the people of Israel..." (Revelation 7:2-5)
"Then out of the smoke came locusts onto the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. They were told not to damage the grass of the earth, or any green plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their forehead." (Revelation 9:3-4)
"Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life – water as clear as crystal – pouring out from the throne of God and of the Lamb, flowing down the middle of the city’s main street. On each side of the river is the tree of life producing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month of the year. Its leaves are for the healing of the nations. And there will no longer be any curse, and the throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city. His servants will worship him, and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." (Revelation 22:1-4)
Some of what was noted was shared more in-depth in the thread that discussed the subject of marks/tattoos from a godly perspective...as seen here in 36 , #40 and #56."Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, who had the seal of the living God. He shouted out with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given permission to damage the earth and the sea: “Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees until we have put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Now I heard the number of those who were marked with the seal, one hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from all the tribes of the people of Israel..." (Revelation 7:2-5)
"Then out of the smoke came locusts onto the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. They were told not to damage the grass of the earth, or any green plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their forehead." (Revelation 9:3-4)
"Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life – water as clear as crystal – pouring out from the throne of God and of the Lamb, flowing down the middle of the city’s main street. On each side of the river is the tree of life producing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month of the year. Its leaves are for the healing of the nations. And there will no longer be any curse, and the throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city. His servants will worship him, and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." (Revelation 22:1-4)
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I have no doubt that it is a "sealing" of the mind and heart towards God.. that marks His people in walk, talk, and thought. I also have no doubt that Satan couldn't care less as long as you bow down to his wishes by proving to the world whose side you are on.
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Something I was reminded of once when the discussion came up was how part of the power of the Anti-Christ is that those decieved by him will not know they're decieved since the Great Delusion (Per II Thessalonians 2-3 ) will come on those not loving truth.....
And as one of my brothers in the Lord said best, with the widespread persecution in the body of Christ that has been happening/increasing for decades, at the highest point ever (i.e China, Sudan, India, etc), it's possible that the End Times believers who are marked are already existing--and the Mark of the Beast has already occurred.
It could prove to be detrimental to believe Satan's mark will be a physical one, being forcibly administered in a public scenario (as commonly depicted). For this undoubtedly has caused some individuals to attempt to evaluate their current place in the end-time calendar, therefore perhaps causing spiritual lukewarmness ..such as saying, for example, "Oh, we haven't been forced to receive the mark of the beast yet, so Christ's return must be further down the road." It can also cause others to neglect where those in the church need support since looking for a future mark prevents others from realizing what is happening with those already set apart----and thinking that it's not a big deal. This is why I believe this common portrayal of the "mark of the beast", as depicted in mainstream christian media, might very well be a deception straight from the enemy himself. For perhaps the enemy doesn't want humanity to realize that they already have his mark in more than one way.
When it comes to music, for example, everyone knows that most "believers" will never say "I worship you, Satan" if they were asked to say such since you don't do that---and yet, they have no problem singing songs that glorify sex, drugs and violence...or watching media that glorifies all of those things...and in their minds, because they're still talking about Christ and attending fellowship and denying (in their minds) "worship of the Devil", they're in the clear. But it doesn't matter whether or not you say "I worship you!!!"/acknowledge since your actions are what show evidence...and whether you mentally acknowledge what you're doing or not, it makes no difference since your lifestyle doesn't match up with what the words imply.
Personally, I believe further proof that humanity has, is, and will continue to receive the mark of the beast up until the second coming, is derived from the following scripture:
"There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11)
When one looks at the country, for example, one can't help but notice the "restlessness" in the individuals that reside in it. People are so busy with their day-to-day grind that they simply do not have rest - physically, emotionally or spiritually. This does not surprise me, however, because many live in ungodliness ..and are consequently partakers of the mark of the beast. Thus, they therefore do not have no rest.
Daniel Echoed this when he was told how the end times would be a restless generation that develops MUCH technology and yet doesn't have peace:
Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”ut you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”ut you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
FOr one excellent sermon on the subject, one can click here to listen as the pastor expounds on the subject of how the end times is the generation with exceptional technology and yet not being able to rest at all. And with rest comes another important subject:
"He grants sleep to those he loves." (Psalm 127:2)
Isaiah 48:22
“There is no peace,” says the LORD, “for the wicked.”
Isaiah 48:21-22
Isaiah 57:21
“There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked.”
Isaiah 57:20-21 (
Isaiah 57:20
But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.
Isaiah 57:19-21 (
Isaiah 48:22
“There is no peace,” says the LORD, “for the wicked.”
Isaiah 48:21-22
Isaiah 57:21
“There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked.”
Isaiah 57:20-21 (
Isaiah 57:20
But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.
Isaiah 57:19-21 (
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Psalm 73 comes to mind, alongside other scriptures that note the reality of how it can be very tempting to think the wicked are doing well/prospering because of how "fun" it looks and how they don't seem to get caught...but as I've often learned from others, all the smiles/celebration are always hollow. The party has to end at some point--and even for the people saying they're good, it doesn't mean they have true peace or understanding. Some people choose to fall asleep and it seems like they're doing good, but there's chaos inwardly---and many people who used to be unbelievers often note how so many thought they were having a blast and yet no one knew how they'd either cry themselves to sleep at night or consider suicide...and others never had true satisfaction. Others had contenment in the sense of not knowing what more there was---like people eating out of the garbage because of how hungry they are....and because they can't find real food, they become so used to trash that it becomes "normal" for them and they don't even recognize where they've fallen...nor do they see how life could be so much more. They think having their belly full means they're good--but they don't see how true rest brings fullness
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But hasn't that always been... what makes this any different? Why this time does God draw the line and say choose this day whom you worship.. it is "sealing" time.
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One would have to remember that there were many times the Lord's people were set apart/following Him--and yet He'd announce how they would need to choose Him/not follow Idols. Sometimes announcements are not an indication of one being away from the Lord..but rather, of reminders to continually seeking Him....and not falling away/losing what one has.
2 John 1:8
Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
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So you are saying it is not the wickedness reaching its max limits that gets God to put a stop to all this.. you are saying at the appointed time, He draws the line and says "enough"
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What I'm saying is that the saints remain as they are, steadfast/dedicated unto the Lord...and with the Seven Judgements, they all occur once there's a time the Lord says "Enough." It's not to say that there hasn't been wickedness before--but when the Lord says enough, it's something only He knows.
Truthfully, there's NOTHING keeping the Lord from returning today if He wanted to since wickedness is at an all time high, rising in increasing levels and allowing things people would have NEVER imagined before (i.e. inappropriate contentagraphy/orgies celebrated in the T.V and media as "fun"/normal, human trafficking and the abuse/rape of girls and children ---the largest form of slavery ever, genocides, violence in the earth, witchcraft, financial meltdown/love of money at all costs, destroying/raping the environment and descerating the natural world like never before, war, etc). And if you think on it, when comparing it to Genesis 6 and how Christ said "As it was in the days of Noah.." (Luke 17:25-27 / Luke 17 ) to signifiy his return, one must also consider what man has done to himself in so many ways with his choosing to mutilate his own self/allow himself to be corrupted in the same way as the angels did to man back in scripture.
And this seems especially clear in light of how much focus there has been on doubting the Divintiy of the Lord/UFO Theology and New Age thinking with looking unto higher beings to gain power for themselves...
As said elsewhere on the issue on how the Sons of God are again messing with men:
... what would happen to the average believer if ET's showed up on the scene, took credit for ancient mythology, prepared to peacefully lead us into a new future, weren't threatened by claims about Jesus/Zeus/Muhammad/Nephilim/insert-deity-here/etc. And I'm already very familiar with the Enochian accounts, as well as common conspiracy theories and this and that.
I don't think it's quite as "cut and dry" as "well .... motherships have arrived over Mexico City .... everyone drop their religious beliefs and embrace the ET creators now !" I might be a bit paranoid .... but at this stage in the game, I think it's much more subtlely sinister than that ....
I wonder if human beings are being prepared *physically* rather than mentally and emotionally. So much focus is given to what we know, or don't know ... and how we feel about it, or don't feel about it ... and yet, with each passing day, we are physically becoming more and more "synthetic" and "artificial". In our diets, our medical health, how we are medicated to perform/behave/societally trained. It's as though we are quite literally a new species ... some version of "homo sapien" that is more akin to a domesticated pet engineered by masters, rather than the original version of the wild animal. We struggle to find our identities, and our identities are so important to us ... because we are artificial and trying to figure out if we're really alive or not, like a robot becoming sapient and self aware.
If the Kingdom of God is within us ... I see no reason why the Kingdom of the Adversary won't attempt to manifest itself from within us first, and then to the outer world. As though we are pet conduits being created to house the spirits of the fallen ... and with the right type of lenses on, you can already see our society could be inundated with these "hybrids" running around as though they are mythical beings, powerful, elite, etc. It's irrelevant what we think we know to be true, if we are just hosts for the parasitic spirits to live out their fantasies through us in every way they can conceive. They can let us think whatever we want to think ... we will obey anyway because we will be filled with the Unholy Spirit. And so what if motherships land and aliens pop out ? Whether we submit or not is irrelevant ... we are quite possibly already their pets, fabricated and altered as they saw fit, in the image they desired.
If God is creating a new creature within us ... why wouldn't the angels/watchers/demons/Satan/etc attempt to do the same ?
I'm thinking out loud here .... and as I said, it is somewhat "conspiracy theory" minded ...
Easy G (G²);59446934 said:Wow..
Never considered seeing things from that perspective before, but how true it is that many are expecting to be taken by surprise by something from outside of ourselves that we can percieve...and yet not many of us are able to realize the physical battles occurring where there has been a substantial drive to transform humanity from the inside out---and this, by no means whatsoever, has been something very secret. There was an excellent documentary series I recently saw on that very subject, as seen here:
I've often been astounded at the ways that mankind has sought to improve himself, to the point that much of what's deemed as an "improvement" has greatly kept man from being natural in many respects...and indeed, as you say, synthetic/artificial and in a state of being that was not meant to be. Even in things such as the foods that man eats, much of it has been altered and there's a significant battle occurring over who will control it since many see the agenda to transform man---and in many ways, make him greatly limited in what he can do in the process..
- Brave New World: Transhuman Part 1
- The Age of Transitions (full length documentary)
- TRANSHUMANISM Tom Horn Full Length IMPORTANT!
- TRANSHUMANISM (Full): Techno-eugenics for the neo-feudal age -- Tom Horn interview, by Alex Ansary
Easy G (G²);59447433 said:If considering some of the historical aspects of what the scriptures note on demonic spirits from the Fall/the Flood era and how many of them need to have vessels to operate, what you say makes even more sense....
Within Judaism, one people type of group discussed are the rephaim . Most generally, they are the dead kings or great warriors of antiquity. Sources within and outside the Bible confirm this identification. In the biblical case, however, the rephaim are related (literally) to the giant clans in the Old Testament. These clans are in turn identified as descendants of the nephilim (Gen 6:4), who were offspring of human women and divine beings (the sons of God). Many have often noted how demons are very much connected with those groups and that the spirits controlling men in the NT/giving them supernatural abilities (similar to what's seen within much UFO religion ) were those coming from the era when they were able to have free reign...and although those angels who bred with men are locked up, their offspring are disembodied and in need of vessels to operate their old agendas in. With the Nephilim, when a Nephilim giant was killed, the immaterial spirit of that Nephilim was considered a demon. This is the Second Temple explanation for the origin of demons. The disconnect here, though, is that the shedim of 1 Enoch were sentenced to roam the earth to harass humans. It is not clear they reside in the Abyss, but it does seem they can be there (but are not imprisoned there, like the original offending Watchers (sons of God) of Genesis 6. Rather, they are imprisoned in all the OT, NT and 2nd temple Jewish traditions
For more info/reference, one may wish to investigate places such as Things Old and New - Demons and Nephilim (as they had an excellent review on the subject)--or one can go to the following:
In many ways, one can see it all taking place as a well-layered trap. For if the enemy can get others solely focused on what occurs outside of them and prepared for something such as a foreign invasion force, it can serve as a distraction for the ways that people are already being operated through for the Kingdom of Darkness...transforming gradually into the very thing that was desired by spiritual forces of wickedness all along while people were still getting prepared for an imaginary enemy that would never show up in the way that they planned. They are looking in preparation for something to come/try to transform them into a certain image when they don't realize that they've been slowly transforming into the very thing already..Powerful theory, IMHO (especially when considering the reality of how the enemy is always trying to counterfeit the Lord/copy Him Kingdom in establishing his own)....and many thanks for sharing it
- Genesis, Goliath and Neandertal DNA
- Michael S. Heiser | Remnant of Giants
- Why Mylipin; / Myliypin; (Nephilim) - Michael S. Heiser
- Boyd and Heiser Dialogue On The Nephilim Question
The Naked Bible » Sheol: The OT “Bad Place”? - Michael S. Heiser- Yahweh's War Against the Nephilim » Blog » Greg Boyd (Christus ...
. For it all goes back to reminding of the need for believers to guard their spirit/focus:
Romans 6:13
Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
Romans 6:12-14
Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
Ephesians 6:17-19
2 Timothy 1:14
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
2 Timothy 1:13-15
Jude 1:19-21 / Jude 1
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
GG
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What really matters is, IMHO, whether or not we're ready...because often what I've noticed is that people may ready to be a matyr/die for Christ..but they don't seem ready to live for love--and like I Corinthians 13 notes, even giving one's body to the flames and not loving means nothing. One can get shot for denying the Anti-Christ and boldly proclaim "I believe in Christ"...and yet, it doesn't mean anything.
Even for people getting geared, there's no guarantee that others will even survive till that point. ANd like Christ spoke of, what matters is whether or not we're ready at all times to meet Him.
Even for people getting geared, there's no guarantee that others will even survive till that point. ANd like Christ spoke of, what matters is whether or not we're ready at all times to meet Him.
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When I see someone do things because they care, and I mean truly care.. I know there is still hope. When, on the other hand, you see total blockage, like some GT posters, then you know that there is no repentance, no remorse, and no recourse but for the Lord to shut down His ministry for sins repented of... Then I can see Him saying... It is done....
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on the subject of 666... here is another approach...the beast is [Satan] Saturn is the 6-pointed star.
T = 400
U = 006
R = 200
= 666
Let's look at the Saturn worship back in the ol' days...Saturn in the scriptures:
The Israelites DID worship the planets and stars and that was of course not pleasing to God. Refer to Exodus 32:1-9. Also read these:
(H3594 - Kiyuwn - Chiun = "an image" or "pillar"
1) probably a statue of the Assyrian-Babylonian god of the planet Saturn and used to symbolise Israelite apostasy)
Note that the children of Israel destroyed their children by offering them to Moloch as a sacrifice. The dragon (Satan) of Rev 12 also seeks to devour the (man) child.
As if that weren't enough, check out what has recently developed on Saturn's north pole: A perfect hexagon (six sided shape) cloud formation! What is up with that?
..and just for your information even storm on Jupiter get names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Storm_(astronomy)
S = 060
T = 400
U = 006
R = 200
= 666
and then you may ask.. what is the connection between the planet and the event...
Let's look at the Saturn worship back in the ol' days...Saturn in the scriptures:
The Israelites DID worship the planets and stars and that was of course not pleasing to God. Refer to Exodus 32:1-9. Also read these:
(H3594 - Kiyuwn - Chiun = "an image" or "pillar"
1) probably a statue of the Assyrian-Babylonian god of the planet Saturn and used to symbolise Israelite apostasy)
Note that the children of Israel destroyed their children by offering them to Moloch as a sacrifice. The dragon (Satan) of Rev 12 also seeks to devour the (man) child.
[host- H6635 - tsaba'- sun, moon and stars]
Remphan G4481 -Rhaiphan- the name of an idol worshipped secretly by the Israelites in the wilderness and back then it was all tied to the visuals in heaven. Remphan here in Acts is probably the planet Saturn.
As if that weren't enough, check out what has recently developed on Saturn's north pole: A perfect hexagon (six sided shape) cloud formation! What is up with that?
..and just for your information even storm on Jupiter get names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Storm_(astronomy)
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Something to note. The Catholic Church say that the Sunday Sabbath is the mark of her authority, and the proof of her authority is the fact that all the other Churchs follow her.
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