Where is your evidence creationists?

Astridhere

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Theycome here because the churches say they are right concerning scripture, and so their political views concerned with sexual indecency, sexual promiscuity, abortion, Gay marriage, preMarital sex, divorce, infidelity, public dress codes are the right thing.


I assert that you are an evolutionist in disguise with a bigger axe to grind than some evos....
 
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mdancin4theLord

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We don't think that, you think that, but as it happens it's true.

Ask yourself this, "how stupid must I be to believe the rubbish that is creationism? it contradicts everything the rest of the world knows is true and I'm not even well educated, I know nothing about evolution and I'm trying to tell people that it's wrong, who's pulling my strings?".

Such arrogance....proves my point all along. The hate on your side is unbelievable.

Every hear of Peter Hitchens, Matthew Parris, A.N Wilson, Antony Flew? All well educated men who either changed from being atheists to believers in God or questioned atheism.

Creation Scientists with Outstanding Credentials


Arrogant and way off base. Do you think that there are no people scientists or famous evolutionists that have believed in God?
 
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mdancin4theLord

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Look in the mirror. I see more anger from you and some other creationists here, particularly your friend Astridhere. You guys are actually even angry that there are atheists and agnostics posting in a forum which has invited them to come post.

Matthew 7:5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


How am I hypocritical. I am pointing out the hatred on your side. I don't hate anyone here.

I believe it is weird that people spend the better part of their days posting and debating God....especially when they deny God exists. Why?
What is the agenda?

The arrogance from this side is unreal. To imply here like one poster did that we are stupid that no scientist in the world would fall for this stuff....well its wrong...and shows how far that side will go to attack believers. many famous atheists have become believers. And there are smart men and women of science who know that something can never come from nothing.

Raymond Vahan Damadian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Baumgardner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Creationist molecular biologist and microbiologist: Dr. Ian Macreadie

Creation scientists and other biographies of interest

Raymond Vahan Damadian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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mdancin4theLord

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Look in the mirror. I see more anger from you and some other creationists here, particularly your friend Astridhere. You guys are actually even angry that there are atheists and agnostics posting in a forum which has invited them to come post.

Matthew 7:5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

To say that people who believe in God are stupid....is an example of utter stupidity. The hate is coming from those who reject God and who are so angry at Him that....they feel they must debate it day and night. Why?


Creation Scientists with Outstanding Credentials

Creation scientists and other biographies of interest
 
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mdancin4theLord

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AV..well said.

I actually cannot understand why atheists stay on Christian forums for years. However it is their right despite my questioning their intentions and reasonings

It is fun though and evolutionists definitely add some gusto to a Christian forum.

Take this thread for example. Evos will continue to use flavour of the month on the back of a previous falsification to ridicule creationist evidence and there is no stopping them.


I can't understand it either. I love discussing this subject with people who are respecting of my position. That is not the case here. We are told time and time again that all beleivers are stupid and that no people of science believe in God and creation. That simply is not true. I would not call it gusto...I would call it disgust and hatred...towards people they cant stand.
 
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JediMobius

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Adam is not an ape and neither were his ancestors. Nothing you have spoken to is any better than the ramblings of evolutionists. You are not a creationist. You are an evolutionist with a twist.

I cannot take you seriously.

Perhaps you can find some common ground in the following: (I can't find the source, though.)

"Gerald Schroeder, an MIT trained physicist, believes that modern science contains nothing inimical to a literal reading of Genesis. Indeed, modern science allows one to understand the "true literal meaning of the Creation narrative." To Schroeder, it is Einstein's relativity, the "distortion of time facing backwards in a forward rushing cosmos," that accounts for the compression of time in a 15-billion year-old universe into six days of creation.

To Schroeder, the emergence of modern man can be dated to the beginning of writing. Archeologists date the first writing, he notes, "at five or six thousand years ago, the exact period that the Bible tells us the soul of Adam, the neshama, was created." To Schroeder, who cites the Targum of Onkelos, Adam was the first man who could write, and the creation of Adam from more primitive man was a divine ensoulment."

I have thought for years that the relativity of time itself accounts for why 7 days appear as billions of years, and it does make sense that the significance of the creation of man is about our spiritual likeness, not our physical likeness. God is not physical, so how can the physical likeness be what is meant?

Evolution has its flaws, but staunch creationism that denies scientific evidence has its flaws as well. The only Christian approach, I think, is to meet where the two intersect according upon scripture. Whatever science observes and discovers, after compensating for bias, can only be what God has created. This will line up with scripture, even if biased scientific analysis does not.

Faith necessitates that we object to the origin of life from purely natural causes, and theology that we object to a history that contradicts Genesis, but evolution pertains to much more than these two things. The simplest concept of evolution is one of growth and adaptation within the different types of life, and part of fruitfully multiplying appears to be diversifying as well. But, butterflies are always butterflies. So, not only do I believe speciation as the means of diverse life from one common ancestor is preposterous on account of faith, it is also unsupported by scientific evidence.

All this to say: physically, we are dust. We are from dust, and will return to dust. For this reason, there is no need to object to a physical relationship to the rest of creation. It's inherent. However, from within we are different creations. It is not the human mind that makes us so unique, all mammals have minds and some even quite intelligent ones. It is not by our physical nature that we have a relationship with God, so why is it necessary to reject a physical relationship to other primates (though it may only be a similarity, i.e. no biological common ancestry either)? Instead, why not focus on our unique spiritual creation? It would make for a much more poignant argument anyway.
 
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JediMobius

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The thread is about creationist evidence.

After the falsification of 150 years of human knucklewalking ancestry, the humanizing of Lucy falsified in the eyes of some evolutionary researchers as being too derived, single fossil finds turning current thinking up side down, you evolutionists have lost any credibility or ability to deny any variety of creationist evidence.

Biblical Young Earth Creationism


This above is as good as any of the supports evos provide and that goes for any form of true creationism.

The irreduceable complexity of a living organism is observed. A primitive cell is a contradiction in terms and evos have never observed one.

The moment atheists observed this irreducibility they should of realised there must be a God and atheism as a naturalistic faith should have been discredited immediately. A recant would have been better and less humiliating for atheists than inventing non plausible myths to support the naturalistic faith.

Well, no, the thread pertains to creationism in general. The OP didn't define terms well.

Old earth vs new earth is an unnecessary distinction. God created everything in 7 days, it just looks like a whole lot more through the cosmological history of a universe's speeding expansion.
 
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CabVet

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To say that people who believe in God are stupid....is an example of utter stupidity. The hate is coming from those who reject God and who are so angry at Him that....they feel they must debate it day and night. Why?


Creation Scientists with Outstanding Credentials

Creation scientists and other biographies of interest

You like putting words in our mouths. I want you to quote a single of one of my messages where I say that "people who believe in God are stupid". While you are at it, how about quoting any of those scientists with outstanding credentials saying that the world was created in 7 days?

They are not "creation scientists" by the way, as none of them studies "creation". They are scientists that happen to believe that God had something to do with the formation of the universe.
 
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CabVet

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Well, no, the thread pertains to creationism in general. The OP didn't define terms well.

Old earth vs new earth is an unnecessary distinction. God created everything in 7 days, it just looks like a whole lot more through the cosmological history of a universe's speeding expansion.

It is not an unnecessary distinction. It is a distinction. Some people believe that the universe was created in 7 24 hour human periods. Others (like you I gather) tend to believe that those 7 days can be anything other than actual days.
 
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The hate is coming from those who reject God and who are so angry at Him that....they feel they must debate it day and night. Why?
Why? because creationism is bad, bad for you and bad for the society you live in, all it does to believers is damage.

How can I hate or reject something I do not believe exists? how can I hate you for having been indoctrinate?
did you ask to be indoctrinated? if you just believed in your religion and kept it to yourself there would be no arguments but you are not content with that are you, you think you should corrupt everything around you by denying the very thing that is keeping you alive, science, there are about 350 million people living in the US today how do you think they are fed? if the US was left to creationists at least 3/4 of them would never have been born and the rest would be using horses and carts and have a sky high death rate.

Creationist are third world people living in a first world country, only able to be creationists because the thing they fight against, science, is keeping them going, creationists are people who do not think, creationist are people to be pitied.
 
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Astridhere

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Perhaps you can find some common ground in the following: (I can't find the source, though.)

"Gerald Schroeder, an MIT trained physicist, believes that modern science contains nothing inimical to a literal reading of Genesis. Indeed, modern science allows one to understand the "true literal meaning of the Creation narrative." To Schroeder, it is Einstein's relativity, the "distortion of time facing backwards in a forward rushing cosmos," that accounts for the compression of time in a 15-billion year-old universe into six days of creation.

To Schroeder, the emergence of modern man can be dated to the beginning of writing. Archeologists date the first writing, he notes, "at five or six thousand years ago, the exact period that the Bible tells us the soul of Adam, the neshama, was created." To Schroeder, who cites the Targum of Onkelos, Adam was the first man who could write, and the creation of Adam from more primitive man was a divine ensoulment."

I have thought for years that the relativity of time itself accounts for why 7 days appear as billions of years, and it does make sense that the significance of the creation of man is about our spiritual likeness, not our physical likeness. God is not physical, so how can the physical likeness be what is meant?

Evolution has its flaws, but staunch creationism that denies scientific evidence has its flaws as well. The only Christian approach, I think, is to meet where the two intersect according upon scripture. Whatever science observes and discovers, after compensating for bias, can only be what God has created. This will line up with scripture, even if biased scientific analysis does not.

Faith necessitates that we object to the origin of life from purely natural causes, and theology that we object to a history that contradicts Genesis, but evolution pertains to much more than these two things. The simplest concept of evolution is one of growth and adaptation within the different types of life, and part of fruitfully multiplying appears to be diversifying as well. But, butterflies are always butterflies. So, not only do I believe speciation as the means of diverse life from one common ancestor is preposterous on account of faith, it is also unsupported by scientific evidence.

All this to say: physically, we are dust. We are from dust, and will return to dust. For this reason, there is no need to object to a physical relationship to the rest of creation. It's inherent. However, from within we are different creations. It is not the human mind that makes us so unique, all mammals have minds and some even quite intelligent ones. It is not by our physical nature that we have a relationship with God, so why is it necessary to reject a physical relationship to other primates (though it may only be a similarity, i.e. no biological common ancestry either)? Instead, why not focus on our unique spiritual creation? It would make for a much more poignant argument anyway.

The day any evo can present substantiated evidence than mankind evolved from apes is the day I will become an atheist. There is no middle ground for me.

Eves bone (dna) was taken from Adam. The differential Y chromosome is a confirmation that Adam is the initial creation. Adam was created from dust which speaks to a new and individual creation. Adam was not made from the bone of an ape.

I do not deny the power of God nor the biblical miracles. If a believer accepts a multitude can be fed from a few fish and loaves then one may also accept God can do all that is stated in the bible.

Besides evolution has been falsified many times as I have spoken to. It is just that evos do not call it a falsification they call it enlightenment.



Further to that there is substantial support for creation, a young earth and an earth centred universe that I am within my rights to favour instead of naturalistic explanations.

Mathematicians’ theory means Earth may be the center of the universe « Thoughts En Route

If God did not protect the contents of His word then there is no reason relating to believe the bible that has any connection to salvation. Such assertions for me are no better than evolutionary theory.

One either accepts the bible as it is written or throw it away. There is no middle ground for me. Either God knows what he is doing or He does not, again there is no middle ground.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I can't understand it either. I love discussing this subject with people who are respecting of my position. That is not the case here. We are told time and time again that all beleivers are stupid and that no people of science believe in God and creation. That simply is not true. I would not call it gusto...I would call it disgust and hatred...towards people they cant stand.
Whoever says such things? I can imagine consol or one of his many sock-puppets spouting such vitriol, but I can assure you, the rest of us are well aware that there are many scientists who are theists. The issue isn't numbers, its evidence. We contend that you have no evidence for things such as Noah's Flood, while we have an abundance of evidence for things such as evolution. If you want to discuss things civilly, you're welcome to PM me.
 
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JediMobius

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Church people must remember that it is their scripture that tells them to preach the Father, Son,m and Holy Ghost to those who may answer back in a similar preachy way.

How do pretend to civility and ignore this?

Church people bang on doors and megaphone on the street, approach strangers to inquire if they have evr seen the light, etc.

This is a saleman approach within the Institution of Religion.
It is similar to what happens in the Institution of Law and Order when political parties sell their candidate and his ideas.
A response is to be expected and more than tolerated.

A response is to remember the religious people of 32AD kill the one person who actually was opposing the paradigm of the Jewish religion.

They were interested in shuting Jesus up, not investigating his different understandings of scripture.
PS They got real angry too.

Word.
 
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JediMobius

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Real science probably bores them, so they come here, where they think we will 'ooh' and 'aah' at their level of knowledge.

Instead, they are met with resistance from our faith, and it bothers them.

That's just one of three major reasons I think they come here:

  1. God brings them here to see our faith.
  2. They come here to vent & ridicule.
  3. They come here to show off.

Oh, AV, I've missed your particular brand of candor.
:thumbsup:
 
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Loudmouth

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The day any evo can present substantiated evidence than mankind evolved from apes . . .

Here we find Astrid's requirement. She needs substatiated evidence in order to accept something as true. Let's see if that follows for what she has already accepted as true.

Eves bone (dna) was taken from Adam. The differential Y chromosome is a confirmation that Adam is the initial creation.

Substantiated evidence please.

Adam was created from dust . . .

I will need substantiated evidence for this as well.

Adam was not made from the bone of an ape.
Substantiated evidence please.

I do not deny the power of God nor the biblical miracles.

Then please present the substantiated evidence that they actually occurred.

If a believer accepts a multitude can be fed from a few fish and loaves . . .

Substantiated evidence please.

Further to that there is substantial support for creation, a young earth and an earth centred universe that I am within my rights to favour instead of naturalistic explanations.

And this evidence is . . . ?


Substantiated evidence that supports this theory, please.

If God did not protect the contents of His word then there is no reason relating to believe the bible that has any connection to salvation.

Substantiated evidence that God exists and protected anything, please.

One either accepts the bible as it is written or throw it away.

Since you claim that you need substantiated evidence to accept something as true, you had better present this evidence or be forced to throw it away. That is, unless, you have a double standard when it comes to what you will or will not accept as true.
 
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JediMobius

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Theycome here because the churches say they are right concerning scripture, and so their political views concerned with sexual indecency, sexual promiscuity, abortion, Gay marriage, preMarital sex, divorce, infidelity, public dress codes are the right thing.

Well, you know, the publicized church...
 
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RickG

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To say that people who believe in God are stupid....is an example of utter stupidity. The hate is coming from those who reject God and who are so angry at Him that....they feel they must debate it day and night. Why?


Creation Scientists with Outstanding Credentials

Creation scientists and other biographies of interest

From your outstanding creationist credentials:

Dr. Robert V. Gentry is a nuclear physicist who worked 13 years for the Oakridge National Laboratory as a guest scientist. During the time he worked there, he was recognized as the world's leading authority in his area of research. It is interesting to note that when he began his research, he was an evolutionist. Today, Dr. Gentry is a fully convinced young earth creation scientist.

What is so interesting about Gentry is that his work at Oakridge was with a team of scientists who were given the task of finding a way to accelerate decay rates of radioactive material so it could be rendered harmless after being expended in nuclear reactors. What Gentry's team found out was that they could not change decay rates using many methods far exceeding any natural environment they may encounter.

Gentry should know better than anyone that decay rates cannot be changed and that radiometric dating is exceedingly valid. His idea on radio halos in Polonium are completely ridiculous and well refuted many times over.


 
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Davian

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Real science probably bores them, so they come here, where they think we will 'ooh' and 'aah' at their level of knowledge.

Instead, they are met with resistance from our faith, and it bothers them.

That's just one of three major reasons I think they come here:

  1. God brings them here to see our faith.
  2. They come here to vent & ridicule.
  3. They come here to show off.

Resistance? Like how you handled those questions I had about galaxies? :)
 
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JediMobius

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It is not an unnecessary distinction. It is a distinction. Some people believe that the universe was created in 7 24 hour human periods. Others (like you I gather) tend to believe that those 7 days can be anything other than actual days.

Well, no, not anything.

Anyway, the more common young-earth creationist view is that there were 7 God-days, which according to prophetic verses is "like a thousand years," therefor positing only a few thousand years of universal history. It is this YEC view that, by the relativity of time, is easily reconciled with the apparent age of the universe, which is ancient. (Besides, "like" a thousand years is a substantial qualifier, those creation days could actually be any length beyond man's lifespan and, especially for old testament audiences, unfathomable length of time.)

24-hour creation days don't make any sense scripturally, so I just dismiss that view as misguided and unobservant. The sun didn't even exist the first couple creation-days, so how is it they can be 24-hour days? Further, 24-hour days originate from man's perception of time, so 24-hour days need not be assumed before partway through the 6th day.

Not that you necessarily care about the particulars, but I do have reasonable grounds for calling it an unnecessary distinction, and this I mean from a theological standpoint.
 
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