Father James Thornton on Racialism & Orthodoxy

Monica child of God 1

strives to live eschatologically
Feb 4, 2005
5,796
716
48
✟9,473.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
But what is a "barbarian" anyway? A person made in the image of God, created to bear the likeness of God, capable of communing with the Holy Trinity, one for whom Christ died and one who will share in the resurrection. What else matters?

M.
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
But what is a "barbarian" anyway? A person made in the image of God, created to bear the likeness of God, capable of communing with the Holy Trinity, one for whom Christ died and one who will share in the resurrection. What else matters?

M.

Correct thats how i was reading the priests writings. He said all are equal before the judgment seat. He also is writing about the contemporary secular issue, in influx of illegal immigration, and im sure he would include the legal immigration of muslims. In that i agree with him to preserve american culture as it was. Unfortunately its already gone and not for the better. (disclosure, im first generation american and all my relatives are immigrants)
 
Upvote 0

Monica child of God 1

strives to live eschatologically
Feb 4, 2005
5,796
716
48
✟9,473.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Photini

Gone.
Jun 24, 2003
8,416
599
✟18,808.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.

Absolutely. :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

xuxana

♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
Mar 26, 2010
700
118
36
ROCOR
✟1,409.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Green
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.
girl seriously, this is so amazing. i totally agree. :thumbsup::amen::clap:
 
Upvote 0

Greg the byzantine

have mercy on me
Site Supporter
Jan 21, 2005
9,377
467
35
✟56,796.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.

:amen:
 
Upvote 0

Macarius

Progressive Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2007
3,263
771
The Ivory Tower
✟52,122.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I would agree. But i do believe in that some cultures and peoples are more or less enlightened than others. And this is not limited to whether their christian or not. Canon 28 of chalcedon speaKs of barbarian lands which ironically the modern EP interprets to include the United States.

There is, though, a CRITICAL difference in talking about what a culture believes (ie truth claims, ethics, etc) and what is racially predetermined. To put it in theological terms, we are no different by nature than any other human except in so much as we have put on Christ. And as ALL people are offered Christ, we are (in the end) no different by nature in terms of what God has made capable.

Before Christ, all are equal. And, as for cultural differences, it is absolutely critical that we not JUDGE other cultures from the outside looking in. I'm fine with calling evil evil (i.e. cannibalism, though accepted in some cultures, is wrong according to the light of the Gospel). But if we judge the culture itself (categorically, as this man seems to do) then we close the door on any possibility of God already being present there.

Rather, if we immitate the saints of Alaska, we ought to find what is already enlightened by God, and use that to point to Christ.

Incidently, I find the EP's view of us as barbarian (in the context of that oft-quoted canon) to be racist, and I disagree with him for it. I am not a barbarian. My culture may have barbaric qualities. But to blunt so does Greece.

Forgive me,
Macarius
 
Upvote 0

Orthodox Serb

Newbie
Sep 22, 2010
1
1
✟7,627.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Hello there and God bless everyone! This is my first post on this forum. I only joined because I found this thread accidentally. Given that I have had contact with Father James I thought that it would be wrong of me to not state what I know given that I have read on this thread many accusations or assumptions which are untrue.

he will see them as inferior and probably not give them any of the church sacraments such as confession & communion. it is clear by the organizations he associates himself are intellectual bigots.

so yeah, i would assume he prays with the intent to rid the world of "mongrel" races. the guy is hitler in priestly vestments.

For a start if I take what has been written above about him not giving confession or communion to non-whites- that is categorically not true. I know for a fact that he has spiritual children from different races. That you would say that he prays with the intent to rid the world of any race or that he is Hitler in priestly vestements should force you to take a very long, hard look in the mirror. For a Christian to be making those kind of judgements about someone who they do not know is incredible. Also his parish has actively organised the handing out of clothing and other material goods to homeless Mexicans. One can disagree with mass immigration and work for the survival of their own nation and culture while showing Christian charity and love to all. In any case he considers his first and foremost obligation is towards God, however where he sees injustice or even evil being done in the social sphere then he should speak or he would be a coward.

I did some digging (great thing the internet is). Looks like he is the priest at Holy Trinity Church in Oxnard, CA. At least that is the only James Thornton I could find in Orthodoxy. The church seems to be connected to The Holy Synod in Resistance. Someone else will have to comment further on that because I am ignorant of what that implies or entails...

That is correct. This was a ROCOR parish before and is now part of The Holy Synod in Resistance. Personally I am unfamiliar with the various divides amongst Orthodox in America and have not spoken to Father Andrew about this in depth. What I do know is that they are essentially unhappy with what they regard as the ecumenistic or modernistic trend in some Orthodox parishes/Churches.

zomg...
the synod resistance is a self styled anti-ecumenism group. basically orthodox fundies that preach hate!

eeew! what the heck?! !?

As mentioned above they are anti-ecumenistic. Its quite a large jump to therefore excuse them of preaching hate. If it is Father James's writings you have an issue with, they have nothing to do with The Holy Synod in Resistance. He is simply an individual who wrote what was on his conscience. Noone else that I know of in The Holy Synod in Resistance has written on these topics nor are these topics something which are discussed or lobbied for on any level whatsoever. In fact, from what little I know the The Holy Synod in Resistance is less ethnically specific then most other Orthodox Churches as from most of their material that I have read they refer to their wish to create Pan-Orthodox communities. I make no judgement on that, I'm just stating what I know of them.

Pay no attention to the racist person pretending to be an Orthodox priest!

I don't know what you mean by racist. As I have already pointed out he has spiritual children of different races. If by racist you mean that he believes that race exists and that it has implications then I see nothing wrong with being racist- I am one also in that case. To clarify, the Serbian nation could be considered a sub-race since we belong to a branch of the Slavic family (which in turn is a branch of the European race). That is one of the things that makes us unique (I'm not saying its the most important) and to see our unique lineage dissapear is not something that appeals to me. I don't see why that is fundamentally evil.

dude... he's talking about extinction of the european race in america. it's one thing to take an ethnic pride as say serbian nationalism, it's a whole 'nother bag if you're a priest and you're talking about white supremacy.

fr thornton isnt talking about nationality or culture, he is talking about race. he doesn't mention race but if you read the entire article it reeks of racialist agenda. plus... WHY is his article on a White Pride site?

hello?!? he is a racist masquerading as a pseudo-intellectual, sanctimonious orthodox priest. it's a sacrilege.

He does not talk about white supremacy at all and never has done. What he wrote is that different races exist and that different races have different characteristics which are not all due to social factors. Also in most cases one specific race gave birth to one specific culture. If you eliminate the race you eliminate the culture (have a look at the situation of American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Kosovo Serbs). He happens to think this is a bad thing. You may disagree with him, but that doesn't make him evil or someone who denigrates other races. You seem to justify Serbian "ethnic pride", would you do the same if I interchanged the word "ethnic" with "racial"? A lot of people have issues with a particular word but have no problems when a more palatable one (meaning essentially the same thing) is substituted in its place.

true dat. but that oxnard church is so pretty tho. gosh... it makes me sick that he's performing liturgy in such a pretty parish. so does this mean only whites can attend the services? isnt that illegal?

oh no you didnt. lolololz! chapelle is a muslim in real life tho, isnt he?

Of course non-whites can and have attended the liturgy there. Again I can vouch for this 100%. I just read you are half Japanese- well ironically in one photo I have seen the whole parish was welcoming a visiting Orthodox Japanese man. And as an aside, it wouldn't be illegal if they weren't allowed to attend- I'm not even American but I know that.

I have been to that parish. I am somewhat familiar with this priest. I dated a guy who is close to him and attended that parish. Considering that person's crazy white supremicist views (which I didn't find out about until I started putting the pieces together), I would run FAR away from any material this "priest" writes.

You are not familiar with him at all if you think he is a "white supremacist". And theres no need to run away from people's writings, they're not going to bite you. If you had an open mind and were not intimidated by controversial issues you would have no problem exposing yourself to any opinion because surely you would use your own God-given logic to decide for yourself whether it has any merit?

the ROCOR and SiR were in full communion with each other before the unification with Moscow. Either it was always an SiR parish or a former Rocor parish that didnt go.

You are correct it is a ROCOR parish that didn't approve of the full communion so reverted back to SiR.

he doesn't mention the word race or color but there it is obvious in his writings that he is a xenophobe. i don't understand how you can defend this man after reading his intolerant manifesto. i mean what the heck is...

"It deliberately ignored the desirability of maintaining the existing, predominantly European, makeup of the country, it ignored questions about the ability of immigrants successfully to assimilate into the American mainstream, and it ignored the enormous problems likely to arise from an increase in crime, poverty, disease, and ethnic conflicts. "

thats ok to you? if that doesn't scream intolerance i dont know what does. you keep insisting that it's all ok & sound logic. are you kidding me?

I can understand you disagreeing with him his views but it really is quite unjust for you dismiss them as intolerant and xenophobic. There is nothing evil for wanting a culturally (and therefore racially- since Western European civilization was created unsuprisingly by Western Europeans) homogenous state to remain so. And there is nothing evil about predicting all kinds of problems if this were not to occur (it doesn't mean he wants them to occur). If you don't think he's right then fine, but don't shoot the messenger (even if you think hes wrong). And tolerance is not an absolute virtue- it is not virtuous to tolerate suffering or evil. Likewise if someone believes their homeland is being changed before their eyes then it is not evil to not want this to occur (again look at Kosovo- does me not wanting Kosovo to have 95% Albanians make me intolerant?).

I wonder how this priest will treat immigrants who show up at his church. Will he differentiate between "third world" immigrants and European immigrants? Will he love all equally?

I wonder if he has read what the Law said about immigrants and how they are to be treated Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt... 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

I wonder if he believes in showing hospitality to strangers (also known as aliens) as though he were entertaining angels Let brotherly love continue. Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

or Christ Himself For I was a stranger and you invited me in...

I wonder if he remembers that Christ, the Theotokos and Joseph were immigrants in Egypt.

I wonder if he remembers that Christ was a man of no reputation and that people wondered if anything good could come of Him or anyone who came from where he was from. Can anything good come out of Nazareth?

M.

This is already anwered in one of my responses to xuxana- at the risk of repeating myself, I have no doubt he would show any human with spiritual or material needs compassion. And as my examples show, he has already done so to many non-Europeans.

I could care less if he's ROCOR. What I'm talking about is his view on the inequality of individuals and races.

Individuals are equal only in the love that God has for them. In almost every other way they are unequal, and God created them that way. For example not all children have an equal ability in Maths, not all children have the same height or strength- its not evil to recognise that obvious truth.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.
:thumbsup: I read a book about a Greek immigrant family living in Chicago in the 1920's. They first came over to NY and then eventually moved to Chicago. Everyone hated anyone different who stepped off the boat from another country. It was really ridiculous. The Irish, Italians, Scots, Greeks, Southern Europeans (eastern block), Russians, Chinese, of the blacks, and others I'm sure I forgot to mention. The only ones that were "ok" were the British (English) and Germans (and apparently some Poles in their area). some places only allowed those groups. It's really sad how this country was (and there are still pockets of it out there). And like you said, the Native Americans were here first. Studying with my son last year in Social Studies...it was a Spanish explorer (and a French) who discovered America and actually walked around it, not Columbus.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

katherine2001

Veteran
Jun 24, 2003
5,986
1,065
67
Billings, MT
Visit site
✟11,346.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.

Well said!:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.

So true what you stated.

Reminds me of a pic I once saw when I was considering how odd it is for others to raise issue on immigration AFTER the fact and not consider how the same arguments would never have allowed the U.S to be what it is today...for if anyone can talk about immigration, it'd be the Native Americans (as well as those who are African-Native American)

native-cartoon.jpg

first_illegal_immigrants.jpg


native-americans-discuss-illegal-immigration.jpg
 
Upvote 0

TheCunctator

Dio, abbi pietà su questa anima miserabile!
Dec 8, 2009
828
81
34
✟16,399.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
dude... he's talking about extinction of the european race in america. it's one thing to take an ethnic pride as say serbian nationalism, it's a whole 'nother bag if you're a priest and you're talking about white supremacy.

fr thornton isnt talking about nationality or culture, he is talking about race. he doesn't mention race but if you read the entire article it reeks of racialist agenda. plus... WHY is his article on a White Pride site?

Racialist Texts

hello?!? he is a racist masquerading as a pseudo-intellectual, sanctimonious orthodox priest. it's a sacrilege.

So a White person cannot be legitimately worried about his race's declining numbers without being labeled a "supremacist"?

These are real words that have real meaning. "Supremacist' isn't an insult to hurl around like "evil."

I personally agree that America (and European nations in general) are being swamped by Third World immigrants that are entirely alien to us and will destroy our cultures as we know it.

We allow Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics to support their own nationalist movements, but God forbid if a White European has any sense of devotion to his own people.
 
Upvote 0

TheCunctator

Dio, abbi pietà su questa anima miserabile!
Dec 8, 2009
828
81
34
✟16,399.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
The idea that American culture has ever been anything near homogenous is a myth. We have always had a blended culure. This country was built by African slaves and immigrants from all over, besides the fact that the Native Americans were here before anyone else. Southwestern American culture has always been influenced by the Spanish, mestizos, Native Americans and Germans. The Western states had all of that plus the Chinese immigrants who came in the 1800s. In the Southeast we have the mixture of African, Spanish, French, other European and Native American cultures. The German immigrants who settled in the midwest had no intention of assimilating into the culture surrounding them. The German language was used in public schools for all classes until WWII in some places. So the idea that immigrants are going to come here and change our culture is ridiculous. The United States is a country of immigrants!

What is more, there is nothing new about some immigrants being involved in criminal and/or immoral activity to make a buck. The founding fathers owned slaves and made their money with their sweat. Some Italian, Irish and Russian immigrants were/are involved in criminal enterprise. But for the most part immigrants come here to work and work hard. That has not changed.

And the negative rhetoric about immigrants is nothing new. In the 19th century, a New England news paper described immigrants from Europe as "drunkards…irresponsible grog-shop scoundrels and poor house rum blossoms."

M.

I strongly disagree.

America was almost entirely homogeneous until the 1965 Immigration Act which threw open the doors to immigration. Before that time 90+% of the American population was White, with added emphasis on some form of Anglo heritage (English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish).

The real myth is that America is a "country of immigrants." In fact, throughout most of its history, America has had fairly restrictive immigration legislation. Not least the 1924 Immigration Act, which was effective until the 1965 reform. It instituted quotas that assured preference for immigrants coming from Europe, with specific regards to Northern and Western Europe. Our very first immigration law, in 1790, declared that only free White Christians could be US citizens, and restricted entry to that particular group.

No one is denying that there have been contributions by non-Whites. But even Chinese and Japanese immigration had been largely restricted. America has always, and I mean always considered itself a nation of Europeans with a particular British flavor. Yes there have been millions of Italians, Frenchmen, Germans etc that entered the country, but even then, most assimilated into the British-oriented culture. Otherwise English wouldn't be the lingua franca today. It's not a coincidence that America continues to speak of its "special relationship" with the United Kingdom, its "mother," while friction with France abounds, despite the latter's contribution to our war of independence. If one reads about the 1800s-1900s "World Baseball Tour," this sense of comraderie and friendship with the lands once part of the British Empire is quite evident.

And that is nothing to be ashamed of. That's America's heritage.

I should also point out further flaws:
You referred to Hispanics, Africans, and Native Americans. Well it's interesting that you should mention that. Hispanics were never a great number, despite what revisionists might claim. That area of New Spain (and later Mexico) was largely uninhabited. By the time Texas joined the Union, for instance, Texas was already majority Anglo-Protestant. Although Hispanics historically have had a presence, their growing numbers today vis-à-vis the European majority is unprecedented.

Africans were enslaved and brought to the colonies, and yet, I'd argue that most African-Americans today still feel largely alienated from the White majority, and feel that American institutions are not their own. You think it's a coincidence that 96% voted for Obama in the last presidential election? They have a clear racial identity. In 400 years, we have not successfully done with Africans what we have done with Italians, Irishmen, and Poles.

With respect to Native Americans - there was no United States when the colonists arrived. So it's actually senseless to call them "Native Americans." They are indigenous to the continent to be sure, but not "Native Americans." They did not found the country. That was founded by those evil old White men we see on the money today. "Native Americans" were conquered peoples. It's that simple. And that's a matter of history. I'm proud of the accomplishments Europeans made in bringing Western civilization here. I'm not ashamed. And my personal ancestors have had nothing to do with colonization - oh, except being colonized, slaughtered, and oppressed by the "enlightened" Muslim caliphate.

Best regards,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knee V
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,556
20,073
41
Earth
✟1,465,414.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
man, I came in here pretty late. all I can say is that I am glad that I, the son of German and British families, came home to an OCA parish whose priest was a proud Irish Texan, who later on said it was his great joy to hear the Paschal hymns sung in Swahili.
 
Upvote 0

Macarius

Progressive Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2007
3,263
771
The Ivory Tower
✟52,122.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Dude, Cuncator,

There were massive waves of European immigration in the late 19th c, and massive waves of immigration (again from Europe, but also forced immigration from Africa) in the 17th-18th c.

I'll put it this way: we (the Orthodox) still get peevish when reminded that the Crusaders sacked Constantinople in 1204, or that the Turks persecute the native Greek population that they conquered between the 11th and 15th c. Those events occurred as many centuries prior to the first major waves of Anglo-American migration to North America as America HAS EXISTED.

We're a bunch of immigrants. We have LESS of a right to be self-righteous about our status in North America as the Turks do in Asia Minor / Istanbul.

Not saying we don't have a right to be here, or that we can't take pride in our heritage, but we shouldn't repeat the nativist mistakes of the past. We aren't natives. Our ancestors ruthlessly suppressed the native Americans; this included Orthodox Christians (e.g. when Protestant Anglo-Americans forced native Alaskans into boarding schools to "civilize" them).

Also, EVERYONE posting in this thread: look at the massive time gap between Orthocat's post and the prior one (well over a year). We can let this one die.

Orthocat, if you were so shocked and dismayed that this thread slandered a good priest, why in the world did you zombify it from the ash heaps of TAW????
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
America has always, and I mean always considered itself a nation of Europeans with a particular British flavor.

That's horrible.

With respect to Native Americans - there was no United States when the colonists arrived. So it's actually senseless to call them "Native Americans." They are indigenous to the continent to be sure, but not "Native Americans."

I find it depressing that I have to explain this, but "indigenous to the continent" is what "Native Americans" means. The name of the continent is "America", you see.

They did not found the country. That was founded by those evil old White men we see on the money today. "Native Americans" were conquered peoples. It's that simple. And that's a matter of history. I'm proud of the accomplishments Europeans made in bringing Western civilization here. I'm not ashamed. And my personal ancestors have had nothing to do with colonization - oh, except being colonized, slaughtered, and oppressed by the "enlightened" Muslim caliphate.

Best regards,

Double standard much?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums