How the ordinary teaching of the Church on ordination and homosexuality is infallible

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A DISCUSSION OF INFALLIBILITYFather John Trigilio Any dogma is an infallible doctrine, divinely & formally revealed by God as a necessary truth for salvation.
Extraordinary Magisterium is an ex cathedra pronouncement of the Roman Pontiff (Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX) or a de fide statement of an Ecumenical Council (Justification, by the Council of Trent).

Ordinary Magisterium is the perennial teaching of the Pope and the Bishops in union with him around the world. To capriciously say that only extraordinary Magisterium dogmas are infallible is false and heretical. Lumen Gentium n.25, Humani Generis n.21, both solemnly teach on the supreme teaching authority of the Ordinary Magisterium.

Some Catholics wrongly believe that only "ex cathedra" Papal Statements are infallible. This would limit infallible dogma to two, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. Obviously, only 2 infallible dogmas in 2,000 years sounds very sparse. Some theologians incorrectly proliferate a notion that only the Extraordinary Magisterium is infallible. Even Raymond Brown has abandoned this notion. Ergo, propositions like "the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of the B.V.M. is not infallible," are ridiculous. If in doubt, the best resource is Denziger's Enchiridion Symbolorum. Next, is Ludwig Ott's monumental work, The Fundamentals of Dogma. There, one can find the theological distinctions made between divinely revealed truths (De Fide) and those which are only theologically certain.

DE FIDE is the highest level of theological/doctrinal truth. They are INFALLIBLE statements by their very nature, like the Holy Trinity, The Real Presence, etc.

Next, are VERITATES CATHOLICAE (catholic truths) like the existence of God which can be known through reason alone.

Finally, there are four types of THEOLOGICAL OPINIONS:

1. SENTENTIA FIDEI PROXIMA (proximate to the Faith) like the Trinity can be known only through Revelation.

2. SENTENTIA CERTA (theologically certain) like Monogenism, i.e., that the human race came from one set of parents.

3. SENTENTIA COMMUNIA (common teaching) like the Church's prohibition & proscription of artificial contraception.

4. SENTENTIA PROBABILIS (probable teaching) like the premise that the Virgin Mary died before being Assumed into Heaven.

According to Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis & Vatican II in Lumen Gentium n.25, even non-infallible teachings are to receive the submission of mind and will of the faithful. While not requiring the assent of faith, they cannot be disputed nor rejected publicly, and the benefit of the doubt must be given to the one possessing the fullness of teaching authority. The heterodox concept of a dual magisteria, i.e., (the pope & bishops plus) the theologians, is not based on scriptural nor traditional grounds. Some have gone as far as to propose a triple magisteria, (adding) the body of believers. While it is true that as a whole, the body of believers is infallible in that SENSUS FIDEI is that the Church as the Mystical Body cannot be in error on matters of faith and morals, the TEACHING AUTHORITY (Magisterium) resides solely with the Roman Pontiff and the College of Bishops in union with him.

EWTN: Originally given in 1995 on Catholic Resource Net's bulletin board as an answer to a question, the above reflects the state of the matter as generally discussed by theologians historically, such as in the works cited (Denzinger and Ott).

It should be noted that the Latin sententia (generally translated into English as opinions) does not refer to a subjective judgment of individuals, each of which is equally valid in conscience, but to a theological judgment by recognized theologians and based on the Faith (Scripture and Tradition), including the definitive sententiae of the Magisterium, and supported by reason from the Faith as at least probable. An "opinion" can never be probable which occurs in a vacuum unsupported by evidence from the Sacred Tradition and the theological tradition.

While these categories still represent, therefore, valid distinctions, a more contemporary and a magisterial assessment can be found in Pope John Paul II's Ad tuendam fidem and Professio Fidei, and in the explanation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in its "Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio Fidei." (See also my Summary.) This formula makes it clear that definitive theological judgments of the ordinary magisterium, are every bit as binding in Faith as are exercises of the extraordinary magisterium. Both are protected by the Church's charism of infallibility, exercised by those who hold supreme pastoral office in the Church (the Pope, or the College of Bishops in union with the Pope), so that the Church remains indefectibility in her faith and her sacraments — something absolutely necessary for her salvific mission, and guaranteed by Christ (cf. Mt. 28: 18-21).

These authoritative texts came about precisely as a result of the kinds of arguments cited by Fr.Trigilio which restrict the obligations of faith to the extraordinary magisterium, and which also largely ignore matters obliged by religious submission of intellect and will (LG 25). The propaganda in favor of the licitness of contraception and the validity of women's ordination, especially the latter since the sacramental integrity of the Church depends on valid orders, are the context leading to the Magisterium's clarifications — of both the weight of certain teachings taught semper et ubique (always and everywhere), as well as the weight of teachings declared definitive, i.e. defined, by the ordinary magisterium.

One final thought, contraception is an assault on the life of the human being, and not just preventively, as the low-dose estrogen pills of recent years also fall under the definitive condemnation of abortion in Evangelium vitae. The push for the ordination of women is an assault on the life of the Church and souls, since it attacks the validity of the sacramental mission and the possibility of salvation. It is no coincidence that this assault on the material and spiritual lives of human beings are occurring together, and often by the same human powers and principalities. Without doubt, they are other powers and principalities behind them.
Colin B. Donovan, STL
Provided Courtesy of:
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Sources:
A DISCUSSION OF INFALLIBILITY

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ORDIN.TXT
 
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JacktheCatholic

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This post of yours is a perfect example of how the Dogma for Papal Infallibility is misunderstood. Let me clarify... the Pope is not Infallible. The Dogma states that when he speaks/teaches from the Chair of Peter to the Church on Faith and Morals that God (the Paraclete) will guide the Vicar of Christ to give an Infallible teaching as divinely inspired and guided. It is God, as always, that is Infallible.
 
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That's not true. Papal Infallibility is clearly defined by the Church. When the Pope writes to either all the bishops or to all the faithful of the Church, speaking as the successor to Saint Peter, and dealing with faith and/or morals it is an infallible statement. Pope John Paul II's apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is a model example of this where in one short paragraph at the end, he meets all of the requirements for Papal Infallibility. Here's what I'm talking about:

"Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing." - Pope John Paul II, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis
 
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Fantine

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I'm just not sure what that has to do with the title of the thread. I am sure that there have been priests with homosexual orientations throughout history. One of the best-known, recently, is Fr. Mychal Judge, who died ministering to firefighters on 9/11. (He was the chaplain of the NYC Fire Department.) Many firefighters have petitioned for his canonization.

The Firemen's Friar

Celibacy is celibacy, and I don't really think that it is any harder for men with homosexual orientations to practice it than for men with heterosexual orientations to do so.

I understand that the clergy abuse crisis has raised this brouhaha (although girls have been abused by clergy as well.)
 
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MikeK

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I think that this is one place that as a society we're getting better. There are some in the Church today that think of homosexual sins of fornication, masturbation, inappropriate contentography, etc as somehow worse than their heterosexual counterparts. That idea is not so burned in to our youngsters, and I suspect that in 50 years there won't be the stigma that homosexual sins are worse than heterosexual sins. Sin is sin. I think we'd all be better off if we concentrated on our own.

Of course you're correct, there were, are, and will be homosexual Priests. Among them wil be some bad ones, and also, I suspect, some very, very good ones.

I'm just not sure what that has to do with the title of the thread. I am sure that there have been priests with homosexual orientations throughout history. One of the best-known, recently, is Fr. Mychal Judge, who died ministering to firefighters on 9/11. (He was the chaplain of the NYC Fire Department.) Many firefighters have petitioned for his canonization.

The Firemen's Friar

Celibacy is celibacy, and I don't really think that it is any harder for men with homosexual orientations to practice it than for men with heterosexual orientations to do so.

I understand that the clergy abuse crisis has raised this brouhaha (although girls have been abused by clergy as well.)
 
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That's not true. Papal Infallibility is clearly defined by the Church. When the Pope writes to either all the bishops or to all the faithful of the Church, speaking as the successor to Saint Peter, and dealing with faith and/or morals it is an infallible statement. Pope John Paul II's apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is a model example of this where in one short paragraph at the end, he meets all of the requirements for Papal Infallibility. Here's what I'm talking about:

"Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing." - Pope John Paul II, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis
I'm just not sure what that has to do with the title of the thread.
The same ones who want females to be ordained also want there to be priests who are in openly homosexual relationships. I guess that's because it's lesbians who want to be men that want to be priests. That's how my post relates to the title of the thread.
 
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helenofbritain

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The same ones who want females to be ordained also want there to be priests who are in openly homosexual relationships. I guess that's because it's lesbians who want to be men that want to be priests. That's how my post relates to the title of the thread.
Why are we feeding the troll?
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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This post of yours is a perfect example of how the Dogma for Papal Infallibility is misunderstood. Let me clarify... the Pope is not Infallible. The Dogma states that when he speaks/teaches from the Chair of Peter to the Church on Faith and Morals that God (the Paraclete) will guide the Vicar of Christ to give an Infallible teaching as divinely inspired and guided. It is God, as always, that is Infallible.

The paraclete being the Holy Spirit, the teacher of all truth is promised to all who follow Christ.

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So if the same spirit is teaching both us the [body] and the institutional church the vatican and various Archdiocese's , then why are there so many conflicts between laity and those of the hierachy ?

The Holy spirit in scripture is promised to ALL who call on the name of Christ, not just the hierachy.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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The paraclete being the Holy Spirit, the teacher of all truth is promised to all who follow Christ.



So if the same spirit is teaching both us the [body] and the institutional church the vatican and various Archdiocese's , then why are there so many conflicts between laity and those of the hierachy ?

The Holy spirit in scripture is promised to ALL who call on the name of Christ, not just the hierachy.

You should read the thread I started on Sensus Fidei since it goes over this and I present several documents from the Vatican. Link: http://www.christianforums.com/t7617960/

You shall find that even the laity in their prophetic nature as children of God must still understand and believe in accord with the entire Church through the Pope and Magisterium. No one laity has divine revelation outside the Truth of the Church as a Whole. No one.
 
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The paraclete being the Holy Spirit, the teacher of all truth is promised to all who follow Christ.
The problem with that is that "all who follow Christ" contradict each other in doctrine. When Jesus asked the apostles who they thought He was, only Peter got it right. And this had been given to him by our Father in Heaven. I could go on with more from scripture, but that's the role of the Pope to get it right about our Lord even when the rest of the world gets it wrong. Our God is not a god of confusion. He left us with Peter the Rock because Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and He would not abandon His sheep to the wolves. 266 Popes, and 2,000 years of the same faith being taught.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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You should read the thread I started on Sensus Fidei since it goes over this and I present several documents from the Vatican. Link: http://www.christianforums.com/t7617960/

You shall find that even the laity in their prophetic nature as children of God must still understand and believe in accord with the entire Church through the Pope and Magisterium. No one laity has divine revelation outside the Truth of the Church as a Whole. No one.

But the scripture never says that the Church [Body] of believers have to belive "through" the Pope. We all have a personal relationship with Christ and have been baptised in his spirit.


Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

This part of the passage is most important:

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him
 
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But the scripture never says that the Church [Body] of believers have to belive "through" the Pope. We all have a personal relationship with Christ and have been baptised in his spirit.
At the end of the gospel of John, Jesus, just before ascending to the Father, puts Peter in charge of His sheep to take care of them in His place. So we have to ask ourselves are we His sheep or not? The Bible, which by the way was compiled by the Catholic Church, says that we will know the tree by the fruit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is Truth. That's why I chose the one Church that goes all the way back to Christ and the apostles with the successor to Peter and which has always maintained the same teachings ever since for 2,000 years.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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But the scripture never says that the Church [Body] of believers have to belive "through" the Pope. We all have a personal relationship with Christ and have been baptised in his spirit.




This part of the passage is most important:

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him

As Catholics we recognize the authority of the Pope who sits in Peter's Chair and hold the Keys which give the Pope the authority to act with Jesus' kingly power and so this makes the Pope the Vicar of Christ and the Head of the Church on Earth until Jesus returns. So, the Catholic Church, in it's wisdom and power and with the guidance and protection of the Paraclete, have chosen the books for the Bible and continue to teach infallibly on morals and the faith of all Christianity. It is through the Pope and Magisterium that the whole Christian Church is united under Jesus as King and the Pope as the Holy See. So, there is no need to read scripture blindly like those with no Head, we have guidance from God Himself through His Paraclete and Vicar, the Pope.

It is wise to leave the teachings and decisions of authority to Jesus. Jesus has already chosen Peter to feed His sheep and gave Peter the Keys to be a Father to all. Jesus already sent the Paraclete to assure His divine authority is maintained in Christendom through the Catholic Church and that happened close to 2,000 years ago. Things are still the same then and so the Pope and Magisterium are still our authority until The King comes down to Judge us All.
 
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