Of what meaning is it to be a citizen of a place that you have never been to and will never go to? To be a ciitizen of some place means that you belong there.
Do you have any deceased loved ones that you dearly miss whom you feel joy about their being in a state of non-existent limbo?
I feel joy when I think that I will see her again, and sadness when I think of how I miss her. She is dead right now, but this is temporary. I know that everyone eventually dies. Jesus said that the day is coming when those who are dead, those who are in their graves, will hear his voice and come out alive. Why on earth would I doubt him?
No one is asking you to doubt Jesus. It is your view of death that I disagree with.
No, I believe that all my deceased loved ones are in Heaven. It depends on who it is as to how I feel about it. My father said that when my grandfather died he would stick around here, checking everything out from the clear light of the other side, but that my grandmother would turn her back on this world and take refuge in Heaven. My experience after they died confirmed this for me. After my grandfather's death I felt exuberant and joyous, but after my grandmother died I started having panic attacks as a result of not feeling her presence anymore. The dramatic difference was a result of the different paths they took after death, I could still feel my grandfather's presence very keenly after he died, but I was not able to feel my grandmother's presence after she died.
OK, Feel free to disagree. When I said "Why on earth would I doubt him?" it was in reference to his statement that dead people who are dead and in their graves will become alive again when they hear his voice and come out of their graves to live again. If you ask me to doubt that people are really dead and in their graves after they die, then it seems like you are asking me to doubt Jesus.
Once again it is a matter of definition. Sheol is not the end of consciousness. You define the grave as non-existence, but that is not what it truly means. The word in this case is mnēmeion, which has it's roots in the same word as mnemonic. It is a reminder of the dead, something to draw one's attention to the dead. There would be no need for a mnemonic of the dead if they were in non-existent limbo. Regardless of whether or not they are remembered they would still rise again, so why is it so important to remember them, I ask you?
Based on your lack of psychic ability you define the grave as a state of non-existence. You put a lot of stock and faith in your lack of psychic ability. I am not so lucky, I dream about my deceased ancestors quite frequently in a manner that is not consistent with their being in a state of non-existent limbo. Even as to dreaming, twice in one week, about both of my grandmother's grandmothers. My ancestors seem to take a great deal of interest in me, not just my parents and grandparents. I fined it to be a drag on my spirit, which is perhaps why it hasn't happened in awhile. I long for the state of bliss that I experienced in my past-life recall of the death experience in my previous life. I was terrified of death leading up to that experience, because I believed then as you believe now that death is a state of non-existence.
I don't want to die, but I know that those who lived life well are in a better place after they die and not in a state of nonexistent limbo. After my two experiences of Heaven I do long for the state of bliss that I was in while I was in Heaven, but knowing that if I do not live my life well I will not go there certainly rules out taking my own life, as you so crudely suggest.
The hope I have in Christ, of resurrection to eternal life, as is spoken of in the bible. I am merely "beholden" to the truth.
The Bible also speaks of Heaven, and yet you are not beholden to that truth. The way you speak about it I'm surprised you don't capitalize the 't' in truth the way fundamentalists do. You seem to think that Heaven is just a cosmic isolation chamber for Christ who is the who one who is there. I find that to be a very odd belief, why would Heaven be for Christ only if it is spoken of so often in the Bible?
I believe the bible is true. Which verses do you suppose are true that I think are not true? We can discuss them. If we are playing the "You Seem to Think" game, You seem to think that Christ resurrecting us to life is rather un-necessary.
Not at all. I believe that when the resurrection comes that the bliss that I experienced in Heaven will be something that we feel while on Earth too.
I totally agree with the verses you posted. I noticed that the verses didn't say "By the way, you go to heaven when you die and live there while you are dead."
We've been over this before, you and I just have a different definition of death. You say death is the end, fini. I say death is a change of state, not a final ending. If death were a final ending then why is there a second death? The existence of a second death makes it clear the first death is not a total cessation of consciousness.
The greek word used in Mark's Gospel is ouranou and it refers to the sky. So the meaning of the verse is that the elect will be gathered from all over. The exact same word is used in Matthew 6:26. "Look at the birds of the ouranou..."
No, you said that I am "not beholden to that truth." You said that the bible speaks of the truth of heaven, now you say it is a matter of how the bible is interpreted. I agree with what the bible says, I just don't agree with your interpretation of what the bible says.
Here is the definition given at blueletterbible.org:
How is Heaven a tortue world? You seem to always loose sight of Heaven and focus on Hell. Why is that?
Just as I do not agree with your interpretation, but you act as though you are not engaged in the act of interpreting and are pontificating absolute infallible truth.
Just as I do not agree with your interpretation, but you act as though you are not engaged in the act of interpreting and are pontificating absolute infallible truth.
