The Nicene Creed.

The Gnostic · Dec 21, 2011

Hentenza said:
Then He can not atone for your sins because a simple man can not satisfy God's justice. The scriptures tell us that Jesus is of the same nature as God so He could not have been a simple man.

So you say but this is but your own private interpretation of viewing things if we are to be honest.

Jesus says many things and one thing he did say was..

John 14:28
You heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
John 14:27-29 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)

It seems pretty clear that Jesus considered God greater than himself.The two are not one in the same,otherwise the sacrifice means nothing.

Jesus came as a messenger to give us the Gospels...

John 13:16
Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
John 13:15-17 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)

On the cross did not Jesus say these words?..

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? that is, MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?
Matthew 27:45-47 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)

Jesus had a purpose and he served that purpose for it was meant to be as directed by God.The two were one in purpose,not literally one being.

Merlinius · Dec 21, 2011

Hentenza said:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and [k]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [l]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Acts 20:28
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you [q]overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He [r]purchased [s]with His own blood.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of [h]our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1
1 [a]Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same [b]kind as ours, [c]by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Jesus is worshiped even though John tells us that only God should be worshiped.

Rev. 19
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matt. 28:9
9 And behold, Jesus met them [b]and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.

Do you worship Jesus, Merlinius?

Yes of course I worship Jesus Hentenza. He is my Lord and my God. It is what I've been saying all along.

And I know and love and totally understand all the scriptures you gave above.

But the Nicene creed disagrees with those scriptures.

Recognize what I've shared, how Jesus was Christed, and THAT the eternal Christ is what is being referred to as the logos.

Jesus "began" his existence in Bethlehem.

Christ never "began"

Jesus was Christed and became the Christ and manifests Himself unto Israel.

Two have become one.
A New Creation.
A New Beginning.
A New Life.
A New Covenant.
A New Priesthood.
Behold, I create all things New my Lord and savior Jesus says.

Yes, I affirm again and again, I worship Jesus Christ my Lord and my God.

Do you worship Jesus the Christ as your Lord and God Henza?

Can you confess Christ is come in your flesh exactly as Jesus confessed Christ Come in His flesh?

I do.

Peace

Hentenza · Dec 21, 2011

The Gnostic said:
The Gnostic said:

So you say but this is but your own private interpretation of viewing things if we are to be honest.

Click to expand...

I take that as a compliment coming from a gnostic.

Jesus says many things and one thing he did say was..

John 14:28
You heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
John 14:27-29 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)

It seems pretty clear that Jesus considered God greater than himself.The two are not one in the same,otherwise the sacrifice means nothing.

Click to expand...

The scriptures disagree with your interpretation.

Phil 2
5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Heb. 1
3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,...........

Jesus came as a messenger to give us the Gospels...

John 13:16
Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
John 13:15-17 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)

Click to expand...

Divorcing verses from their context always yield hermeneutical misinterpretations. Here is a small commentary to help you along.

13:16 This verse is another of the Johannine double amēn (truly) sayings and is almost maxim-like in its quality. It reminds the reader that the servant does not surpass the master, nor does the sent one (apostolos, the only use of this term in this Gospel) surpass the sender. This agency statement here thus provides perspective on the servants ability and responsibility in mission. Similar statements are found elsewhere in Gospel settings (cf. 15:20; see also Matt 10:2425; Luke 6:40), but the force of the statement here is to remind the followers of Jesus that there is no reason to become puffed up over their calling, accomplishments, or spirituality, a problem that plagued the Corinthians (1 Cor 4:67; 5:6; etc.) and is not unknown in Christian communities today.

Borchert, G. L. (2003). Vol. 25B: John 12-21 (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; The New American Commentary (87). Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers.

On the cross did not Jesus say these words?..

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? that is, MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?
Matthew 27:45-47 (in Context) Matthew 27 (Whole Chapter)

Click to expand...

Sure did. This is the only time that the Trinity has been separated simply because at this point Jesus took on the sins of the world. God said that He was well pleased with His son, why would He forsake Jesus at the time of His death? These verses show unity not disunity.

Jesus had a purpose and he served that purpose for it was meant to be as directed by God.The two were one in purpose,not literally one being.

Click to expand...

His purpose was to atone for the sins of the world. A simple man can not satisfy God's justice.

Secondly, since Jesus physical body is derived from the seed of the Holy Spirit, and since a being can only beget after its kind, then Jesus has to be divine since the Holy Spirit is divine.

I don't think that I should have to explain the birds and bees to you though.

Hentenza · Dec 21, 2011

Merlinius said:
Merlinius said:

Yes of course I worship Jesus Hentenza. He is my Lord and my God. It is what I've been saying all along.

Click to expand...

So you are then worshiping someone that is not God according to you? The scriptures are clear that only God can be worshiped. Do you disagree?

And I know and love and totally understand all the scriptures you gave above.

Click to expand...

But the Nicene creed disagrees with those scriptures.

Click to expand...

It doesn't.

Recognize what I've shared, how Jesus was Christed, and THAT the eternal Christ is what is being referred to as the logos.

Click to expand...

Jesus was not "Christed". He willfully cooperated with His human nature by being found in the form of a bond servant.

Jesus "began" his existence in Bethlehem.

Click to expand...

All things were created through Him. Was Bethlehem created after Him? How about Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located? How about the Earth where Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located?

Christ never "began"

Click to expand...

If He did not begin then He is of the same nature as God. There can only be one perfect being, otherwise, if there were 2 or more, then what makes them different?

Jesus was Christed and became the Christ and manifests Himself unto Israel.

Two have become one.
A New Creation.
A New Beginning.
A New Life.
A New Covenant.
A New Priesthood.
Behold, I create all things New my Lord and savior Jesus says.

Click to expand...

See above.

Yes, I affirm again and again, I worship Jesus Christ my Lord and my God.

Click to expand...

Then you are worshiping someone besides God if Jesus is not divine. Jesus sits at the right side of the Father until His second coming. Are you asserting that Jesus is now divine, worthy of worship, but not divine before His ascension, not worthy of worship?

Do you worship Jesus the Christ as your Lord and God Henza?

Click to expand...

Absolutely.

Can you confess Christ is come in your flesh exactly as Jesus confessed Christ Come in His flesh?

Click to expand...

I can. I can also confess that God put on humanity and dwelled among us. Can you?

BigDaddy4 · Dec 21, 2011

Merlinius said:
...

Then ask me when Jesus was "Christed" and the circumstances surrounding that.

...

I'm trying to follow your responses, but I am confused by this term "Christed". What do you mean Jesus was "Christed"? I haven't heard anyone use that term before.

Watchman on the Wall · Dec 21, 2011

Those who debate about theology are like bratty little kids who each claim "my daddy can beat up your daddy". It's so silly. Aside from the Gospel, everything else is superfluous and to form doctrines about it is to grasp at straws.

Merlinius, it's refreshing to know someone else reads the Revised Version...I only have the New Testament though.

CatherineAnne, if you want to have me banned, then by all means, please do so, but I will NOT be changing my icon anytime soon.

Merlinius · Dec 21, 2011

Hentenza said:
So you are then worshiping someone that is not God according to you? The scriptures are clear that only God can be worshiped. Do you disagree?

It doesn't.

Jesus was not "Christed". He willfully cooperated with His human nature by being found in the form of a bond servant.

All things were created through Him. Was Bethlehem created after Him? How about Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located? How about the Earth where Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located?

If He did not begin then He is of the same nature as God. There can only be one perfect being, otherwise, if there were 2 or more, then what makes them different?

See above.

Then you are worshiping someone besides God if Jesus is not divine. Jesus sits at the right side of the Father only His second coming. Are you asserting that Jesus is now divine, worthy of worship, but not divine before His ascension, not worthy of worship?

Absolutely.

I can. I can also confess that God put on humanity and dwelled among us. Can you?

Click to expand...

I don't know how to split out the segments of speech as you've done but I'll try to match with your above segments.

So you are then worshiping someone that is not God according to you?

How is this 'according to me'? I said nothing of the like. Jesus is the Christ. Christ is God. I worship God, the Christed Jesus. As I've said all along.

The scriptures are clear that only God can be worshiped. Do you disagree?

NO, I have been clear that I only worship God.

Jesus was not "Christed".

Yes Jesus was Christed at His baptism. Were you not aware of that basic fundamental first principal? How could you know anything else if you don't know that? Do you know what the word "Christ" even means? It means "Annointed with the Holy Spirit". And that happened at His Baptism. I gave you the scripture on that. I can give you loads more. That is absolute fact. Do your homework. No opinions please.

He willfully cooperated with His human nature by being found in the form of a bond servant.

Yes. That is submission of a man to His God. There is no salvation to Him or to us apart from this.
That is How Christ manifested Himself in Jesus the man. Jesus didn't shrink back from accepting Christ in Him.

Then you are worshiping someone besides God if Jesus is not divine.

I never said Jesus isn't divine. You continue to say I said something I haven't said. Please don't do that. He is divine because of CHRIST IN HIM submitting to Christ in Him PERFECTLY. That is what is Divine. That is why I worship Him, Jesus the Christ, my Lord God.

Jesus sits at the right side of the Father

The literal translation states, "and by "RIGHT" is sitting as the Father". The phrase "right hand" is always in reference to the "birthRIGHT" of Jesus, in the RIGHT to bring forth New Creation as the Husband to His Church Wife, Fathering Sons of God by His Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the Father exactly as He said. Or would you rather believe a Creed instead of Jesus?

(Joh 10:30) I and my Father are one.

(Joh 14:8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(Joh 14:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Again, do your homework.

Are you asserting that Jesus is now divine, worthy of worship, but not divine before His ascension, not worthy of worship?

We read of Jesus' divinity from when He was CHRISTED with Christ at His Baptism. It is where the N.T. starts in the first four books. From Jordon, is when the Gospel began to be preached by Him for that exact (and obvious) reason. Whether we understand it (or not, as John the baptist was a bit confused also at first), it is still true that Jesus certainly wasn't qualified to preach as a "divine person" prior to that.

I can also confess that God put on humanity and dwelled among us. Can you?

If you mean this;

(Joh 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Then of course, YES!
It is what I've been saying all along if you just read what I've been saying.

If He did not begin then He is of the same nature as God.

Of course. Christ is God, who never 'began'. Exactly.

There can only be one perfect being, otherwise, if there were 2 or more, then what makes them different?

Moving from Glory to Glory until two are perfectly One, overcoming temptations by trials, tribulations, sorrows and suffering and death and resurrection. The Gospel story. Resulting in the New Man Resurrected, uniting God with man in perfection.

It is called "God manifestation". Without controversy, a great mystery to those not filled with the very person of Jesus Christ resurrected.

All things were created through Him.

Through Christ, yes.

Was Bethlehem created after Him? How about Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located? How about the Earth where Israel, the land where Bethlehem is located?

Christ is from forever until forever and created all things. This question is moot.

So's not to flood you with scriptures, I can provide you scriptures for everything I've shared. It will be exact and perfect and honest in truth. I have only Jesus Christ my Lord and my God to Live for. And I preach by the Power of His Holy Spirit in my, by the Word of God.
I hope we can come together.

Peace

interpreter · Dec 21, 2011

The Gnostic said:
A topic earlier today the Nicene Creed was mentioned.This being the "unorthodox Theology forum" I thought we could discuss what parts of it those who come here agree with and the parts we do not and talk about the reasons why we disagree with them.

The Creed goes as follows....

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

As it shows here it is divided into 5 paragraphs.For myself I shall say which paragraph I agree with and which I do not.

1st. paragraph I will agree with since I believe in but one God,or more to the point ,one force I shall call God which I believe was responsible for creating all existence.

The second I have issues with but in its essense I will agree to an extent.

The third in the way it is worded I would have to disagree with.Same for the fourth.

Again I have to disagree with the whole of the fifth paragraph as well.

Being one that does not believe in the trinity it should be no surprise that I disagree with the last 3.It is no surprise as well that the Creed was made after the Arian debate.

Thst's not the Nicene Creed, but the heretical version of it adopted by Rome in the 11th century.

Merlinius · Dec 21, 2011

BigDaddy4 said:
I'm trying to follow your responses, but I am confused by this term "Christed". What do you mean Jesus was "Christed"? I haven't heard anyone use that term before.

If you didn't know before, the name and phrase "Jesus Christ" means "saviour annointed" or "annointing saviour".

"Christos" (greek) is translated "Messiah" or "anoint" or "Christ" or "unction". It can be a bit confusing unfortunately. But that is why we have lexicons and concordances to prove all things and hold fast that which is good and rely upon God's promise to lead us into all truth and shun vain arguments of man making the doctrines of God of no effect.

G5547
Χριστός
Christos
khris-tos'
From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: - Christ.

It is original language understanding;

The origin is found in the manner in which the Aaronic priesthood was 'annointed' with the pure pressed holy annointing oil in the ceremonies of O.T. Israel. Such ceremonies were to bring God to man and man to God. Which only Jesus could fulfill perfectly. (Impossible under the nicene creed). Here is a 'type' example of How Jesus was 'annointed' (Christed) at His baptism by the Holy Spirit;

(Psa 133:2) It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

We who are of this "annointing" or "Christ" dwell in unity and are brethren.

The only means to Heaven, via the stairway, as per Jacob's dream, is explicitly identified with this pouring out of oil of annointing. We see it here;

(Gen 28:17) And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
(Gen 28:18) And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.

There is no entrance to the house of God without the pouring out or "annointing/Christing" of The Holy Spirit upon our flesh.

(1Jn 2:20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Here it is called "unction";

G5545
χρίσμα
chrisma
khris'-mah
From G5548; an unguent or smearing, that is, (figuratively) the special endowment ("chrism") of the Holy Spirit: - anointing, unction.

The same word here;

(1Jn 2:27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

We have a "Christing" from Jesus, who is the Christ who dwells in us and we in Him via this Christing.

Jesus was Christed when He was annointed of the Holy Spirit at the Jordon. That was when He entered into a position as "Son of God" and fully prepared to minister the Gospel.

No one who hasn't died and been resurrected in Christ's death and resurrection and been filled with His resurrected and Glorified Holy Spirit, has any authority of God whatsoever to preach the Gospel.

Jesus says of them, "I never knew you".

And those are they which think that the "holy spirit" is someone other than Jesus Christ is Come into them.

If it isn't Jesus resurrected living in us, then it is a fraudulent and non-existent 'holy spirit' and how will that imaginary "third person" going to bring us sinlessness and Life? Jesus is Holy. Jesus is Spirit. Jesus is Life. Jesus is Resurrection. There is no room for some "other" god.

Peace

Peace

Hentenza · Dec 21, 2011

Merlinius said:
I don't know how to split out the segments of speech as you've done but I'll try to match with your above segments.

Simple. All you do is highlight the text that you want to respond to and click on

lexHYtDZfmQVyM4ZCP8PhP14TCGgn0hPEVaNDBiQkgBpNo8EAABenFG9rSZQYgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==

(quote wraps) located at the top of the reply text box. The text will appear with quote tags at the beginning and the end of the text that you highlighted.

Jesus was not "Christed".

Yes Jesus was Christed at His baptism. Were you not aware of that basic fundamental first principal? How could you know anything else if you don't know that? Do you know what the word "Christ" even means? It means "Annointed with the Holy Spirit". And that happened at His Baptism. I gave you the scripture on that. I can give you loads more. That is absolute fact. Do your homework. No opinions please.

This is the meat of our debate so I am going to concentrate on this and we can come to the rest later if need be.

Here is the problems with this understanding.

1. Jesus was sinless ALL of His life not just after His baptism. He did not need a savior but atoned for our sins as the just for the unjust. His sinless perfection is a "life long" requirement. A mere man can not remain sinless for 30 plus years of his life. If you have teenage kids then you understand. lol

2. Jesus began teaching at the synagogue at or before He was 12 years old, not just surprising those that listened to Him, but leaving them in awe.

3. Jesus was not merely chosen for this task but IS the only begotten Son of God who is the only being able to do this task. This did not happen at His baptism but it has always been.

4. Jesus is the savior that was prophesied hundreds of years prior in the old testament so His "annointment" did not happen at His baptism.

5. Matthew, in his genealogy verse 18, tell us that "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows.......". Matthew did not say, "now the birth of Jesus that later became the Christ at His baptism was as follows". Matthew related the exact and true terminology.

6. Cristos does mean the annointed one but it is used as a descriptive title of Messiah not of annointed of the Holy Spirit. This has been the usage since the OT which continued in the NT. The LXX uses "Messiah" and "the annointed one".

Jesus can not have been a mere man at any time in His life here on Earth or prior and after the incarnation and ascension. He is divine throughout.

Catherineanne · Dec 21, 2011

The Gnostic said:
You mean "Not Catholic", not Christian.

There really is but ONE authority who determines who is and is not Christian and it is because of this very subject that was brought up in a different topic as to the reason I started this one.

There are over 3000 different sects to Christiaity and NONE have the authority to determine who is and is not a Christian.Once they assume they have the authority to make such a judgement they walk on the slippery slope and goes against the very teachings of Christ.

I believe it goes like this.."Judge ye not least ye be judged,for what measure you judge,so too will it be measured to you."

I am not a Roman Catholic, I am an Anglican (Episcopalian).

This forum has rules. Many people on this thread are in violation of those rules.

On this forum in order to have a Christian icon it is necessary to agree with the Nicene Creed. I am not judging anyone, I am just pointing out that there are Christian beliefs, and there are non Christian beliefs; denying the Trinity, denying the divinity of Christ, denying any other aspect of Nicene means that one cannot also consider oneself a mainstream Christian. Another icon is required.

According to the way this Christian Forum is set up, denying Nicene means that you cannot have a Christian icon; it is as simple as that.

Tzaousios · Dec 21, 2011

Merlinius said:
You mean it is a "trinitarian forum".

I am a Christian. I would never bow down to the demands of trinitarians. They mean nothing.
Pull your trinitarian gun and shoot catherine.

It is just another entry in Fox's Book of Martyrs.

But today the trinitarians just kick Christians instead of burning them.

Please, spare us. This is so melodramatic.

he-man · Dec 21, 2011

Tzaousios said:
Please, spare us. This is so melodramatic.

Melodramatic?

Arius maintains in his letter to Eusebius of Nicomedia, that the Son "is no part of the Ingenerate." Eusebius the historian, Eusebius of Nicomedia, and Arius himself, all came under Lucian's influence.

Not, therefore, to Egypt and its mystical teaching, but to Syria, where Aristotle flourished with his logic and its tendency to Rationalism, should we look for the home of an aberration which had it finally triumphed, would have anticipated Islam, reducing the Eternal Son to the rank of a prophet, and thus undoing the Christian revelation.
Many bishops of Asia Minor and Syria took up the defence of their "fellow-Lucianist," as Arius did not hesitate to call himself.

From this Byzantine conception of Constantine (labelled in modern terms Erastianism) we must derive the calamities which during many hundreds of years set their mark on the development of Christian dogma. Alexander could not give way in a matter so vitally important. Arius and his supporters would not yield.

A council was, therefore, assembled in Nicaea, in Bithynia, which has ever been counted the first ecumenical, and which held its sittings from the middle of June, 325.

NEW ADVENT: Home http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm

The synoptic record makes no explicit reference to the pre-existence of Christ they have severed the Incarnate Son from the Eternal Father: not God but a subordinate divine being is revealed in Christ: the Logos, to adopt the words of Ignatius, is no longer a true breach of the Divine Silence but a subordinate divine being is revealed in Christ: the Logos, to adopt the words of Ignatius, is no
longer a true breach of the Divine Silence.

Monotheism, that the Originative Principle is strictly and Personally One and one only (in contrast to the plurality.) see Newman, Arians4, p. 112 note). See also "Religion and Politics at the Council at Nicaea," by Robert M. Grant. The Journal of Religion, Vol. 55, No. 1 (Jan., 1975), pp. 1-12.

Tzaousios · Dec 21, 2011

he-man said:
Melodramatic?

I am quite aware of Byzantine history. Yes, what Merlinius said was very melodramatic, and reveals something of a persecution complex that is anachronistic despite whatever ways one might rhetorically try to reconstruct ecclesiastical history.

dfw69 · Dec 22, 2011

Merlinius said:
The trinity teaching doesn't allow anyone to "know" Jesus......how does the trinity teaching not allow to know Jesus?

What is the NAME of the PERSON who is your Holy Spirit who you have personally invited to dwell in your flesh? Can you answer this clearly and without hesitation?......what is the name of the holy spirit?.....i dont know....i only know he works in us and teaches us all things....and helps us and answers our prayers when we cry out to our father who lives in heaven....for our God is a saving cry

(1Jn 4:3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I confess Jesus Christ is Come in my flesh. so do i.....i beleive Jesus is the messiah and has come in the flesh....and is the savior of the world and that all who believe in him will not perish but have eternal life.....i believe he died for our sins...making atonment for us....and because of him we can cry to our father in heaven....for we are adopted sons and daughters by faith

peace

The Gnostic · Dec 22, 2011

interpreter said:
Thst's not the Nicene Creed, but the heretical version of it adopted by Rome in the 1th century.

The Creed didn't exist in the first century.

StormHawk · Dec 22, 2011

For me, it's not what it says, it's what it doesn't say.
It's used as a "proof" or indicator that you are a member of the church /
an "orthodox" christian, yet if we look at Acts where people became Christians
by receiving the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:8-9, 15-16, John 3:6-8), it is never
quoted and no-one is expected to accept it before being considered a Christian.
It has replaced God's independent witness of speaking in tongues (and the
command to be baptised as a believer).

he-man · Dec 22, 2011

The Gnostic said:
The Creed didn't exist in the first century.

Aye:

A council was, therefore, assembled in Nicaea, in Bithynia, which has ever been counted the first ecumenical, and which held its sittings from the middle of June, 325.

NEW ADVENT: Home http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm

The synoptic record makes no explicit reference to the pre-existence of Christ they have severed the Incarnate Son from the Eternal Father: not God but a subordinate divine being is revealed in Christ: the Logos, to adopt the words of Ignatius, is no longer a true breach of the Divine Silence but a subordinate divine being is revealed in Christ: the Logos, to adopt the words of Ignatius, is no
longer a true breach of the Divine Silence.

Monotheism, that the Originative Principle is strictly and Personally One and one only (in contrast to the plurality.) see Newman, Arians4, p. 112 note). See also "Religion and Politics at the Council at Nicaea," by Robert M. Grant. The Journal of Religion, Vol. 55, No. 1 (Jan., 1975), pp. 1-12.

interpreter · Dec 22, 2011

The Gnostic said:
The Creed didn't exist in the first century.

Sorry about the typo. I meant 11th century, when the Roman Church changed the Nicene Creed, causing the Great Schism.

interpreter · Dec 22, 2011

I disagree with the Nicene Creed somewhat because I believe that the second coming was in 312AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow.
On the other hand, I don't rule out a third coming, so I guess I'm not technically in violation of the Nicene Creed. I say it every Sunday, but I say it the original (eastern) way.
At least the Nicene Creed doesn't mention a rapture, so I'm OK with it. Instead, Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet, and gathered all the Church together, to Nicea.

The Nicene Creed.

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