The Nicene Creed.

dfw69 said:

my point is ....it is knowing perfect doctrine that saves.... or the teachings of Jesus?

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Neither.

Salvation is by Knowing Jesus as your Lord and your God.

(Joh 20:28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
(Joh 20:29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yethave believed.

Watchman on the Wall said:

Unfortunately 1 John 5:7 has been revealed to be a spurious addition to the text of John's epistle, it is known as the Johannine Comma. Fundamentalists would deny this, but only because they believe the King James Bible to be the only "true" Bible. The King James Bible is one of the few where the Johannine Comma can be found, along with the NKJV if I'm not mistaken. The Spirit, the water, and the blood are the only witnesses, and those are in earth. I don't believe the Johannine Comma is a major stumbling block to get upset over though. Like I said, I believe in the triunity of God anyway, just not the "persons" stuff that the trinity doctrine asserts.

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ok...lets say it was added.....do you see why i believe in the trinity.....if it was added as you say...then why was it added?.....to prove that God is a trinity.....yes?....and so if it is genuine...which i believe to be so.....then its proof the trinity is real......

but the revelation of Jesus when he appeared to John should convince all that Jesus is a God .......because when he appeared to John and john turned around, he saw a God.....and this God said "i am alpha and Omega"...."who was dead and is alive"......Jesus revealed himself to him as God....It is too convincing and undeniable

Merlinius said:

Neither.

Salvation is by Knowing Jesus as your Lord and your God.

(Joh 20:28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
(Joh 20:29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yethave believed.

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i disagree....brother .......knowing, as in head knowledge?.....what do you think i need to know to be saved?...that is tell me what i need to know to be saved?......or what should i know about jesus to be saved?.......

personally i believe because of the trinity doctrine and the oneness doctrine .....collide....and dont agree......wicked men will condemn men by the law .....and they will condemn those that believe in the trinity in the name of religion....and God testifies against them in that he said "do not kill"......yet they will judge and condemn men who believe in the trinity by a false messiah to come.....and reap what they sow....this doctrine is a true doctrine of death.....and working of satan who comes to steal kill and destroy.....and accuses the brethern before God day and night

Merlinius said:

That isn't inspired scripture. You only see that in the KJV and it's variants. It was a dishonest 'transliteration'. This is common knowledge. Added by trinitarians specifically.

That's why you won't find it in say, the AV or the RV or any scholarly text...

Here's the erroneous version you are quoting out of, the King James Version. The part in green is not from John or inspired by the Holy Spirit;

KJV(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Here are proper 'scholarly' renderings;

ASV
(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
(1Jn 5:7) And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

RV
(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
(1Jn 5:7) And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.


Notice the difference? This should make you a bit angry if you've never been shown this before...

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no it doent make me angry.....because i know that wicked teachers add and take away from the new testament.....as it is written in Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

False teachers have come.....wise...and very intelligent ....to deceive....and to curse christians... teaching lies as balaam.....Even the Talmud teaches to lie and deceive christians in order to save their children from turning away from the Torah teachings and Judaism....and not convert to Jesus teachings.....and the new testament.....Actually it make me sad.....because i truly dont want anyone to be deceived and be lost.....not jew gentile sinner saint race nation even all people.....My prayer is for all to come to the truth of the new testament....For i know it leads to true salvation....peace to you....

By the rules of this forum, anyone wanting to display a Christian icon has to affirm Nicene.

If you want to tear Nicene to pieces or trample on it, then change your icon from Christian and say what you like. If you keep the Christian icon, then you are contravening the rules of this forum in denying Nicene.

If you cannot affirm Nicene then you are not a Christian, and your icon bears false witness. It is as simple as that.

The Gnostic said:

Why does one have to lose the icon?They can't call themselves "Christian" if they don't believe in all the Creed?By who's authority does one have to decide who is and is not a Christian?

After all is this not the place for those who have unorthodox beliefs come since we all do not believe in this Trinity doctrine?

It seems people have no problem walking on a slippery slope.

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By the rules of this forum, which is a Christian forum.

Even in unorthodox beliefs, if you have a Christian icon that means you must affirm Nicene. I am not asking anyone to change their opinions, only their icons if they are going to start promulgating teaching that is not Christian.

The Gnostic said:

Why does one have to lose the icon?They can't call themselves "Christian" if they don't believe in all the Creed?By who's authority does one have to decide who is and is not a Christian?

After all is this not the place for those who have unorthodox beliefs come since we all do not believe in this Trinity doctrine?

It seems people have no problem walking on a slippery slope.

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"They" are not deciding who is or is not a Christian "They" are merely asserting the right as the forum hosts to decide who is eligible to use the Christian icon based on a certain criterion which is their right.

If everyone who claims to be a Christian based on faith in Jesus alone were allowed to use the icon even JW's and Mormon's would be claiming the mantle of "Christian" which would lead to chaos.

There must be some way of determining who falls under the mantle of Christian Orthodoxy and who does not.

The Nicean creed is a good place to start.

dfw69 said:

i disagree....brother .......knowing, as in head knowledge?.....what do you think i need to know to be saved?...that is tell me what i need to know to be saved?......or what should i know about jesus to be saved?.......

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No. Not knowing as in head knowledge. That is just carnal knowledge.

To answer your question, you need Christ in you to be saved.
This is a personal intimate "knowledge". The kind of "knowledge" that brings forth the Son of God within you. The kind of "knowledge" where "Adam knew his wife and she conceived" knowledge.
It has nothing to do with intelligence.
It has nothing to do with creeds.

It squarely has to do with whethe you "know" Jesus. Not "of His teachings". Judas knew his teachings. But He didn't "know" Jesus.

The trinity teaching doesn't allow anyone to "know" Jesus.

Here is a question by which the spirits are tested.

What is the NAME of the PERSON who is your Holy Spirit who you have personally invited to dwell in your flesh? Can you answer this clearly and without hesitation?

(1Jn 4:3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I confess Jesus Christ is Come in my flesh.

Any other 'holy spirit' is an imposter and a nameless fraud.

Salvation is only you in Christ and Christ in you.

(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Peace

Catherineanne said:

By the rules of this forum, which is a Christian forum.

Even in unorthodox beliefs, if you have a Christian icon that means you must affirm Nicene. I am not asking anyone to change their opinions, only their icons if they are going to start promulgating teaching that is not Christian.

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You mean it is a "trinitarian forum".

I am a Christian. I would never bow down to the demands of trinitarians. They mean nothing.
Pull your trinitarian gun and shoot catherine.

It is just another entry in Fox's Book of Martyrs.

But today the trinitarians just kick Christians instead of burning them.

Conor B said:

"They" are not deciding who is or is not a Christian "They" are merely asserting the right as the forum hosts to decide who is eligible to use the Christian icon based on a certain criterion which is their right.

If everyone who claims to be a Christian based on faith in Jesus alone were allowed to use the icon even JW's and Mormon's would be claiming the mantle of "Christian" which would lead to chaos.

There must be some way of determining who falls under the mantle of Christian Orthodoxy and who does not.

The Nicean creed is a good place to start.

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A "creed" is the last place to start lol! That house is built on sand, nothing but sand.
Try the Bible being a good place to start.

A JW or a Mormon is just as much a "christian" as a trinitarian is, if any of them are.

None of them worship Jesus as the King of Israel, the Only True Living God. They all have the same fate. None of them have the resurrected Holy Spirit of Christ dwelling in them because their doctrine "prevents" the resurrection and the Life from dwelling in them.
None of them confess Jesus Christ is come in their flesh.

Only those who worship the one true Living God Jesus our LORD are Christians, regardless of 'forum rules' lol.

I am as my master.

(Mar 12:14) And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

Peace

Merlinius said:

A "creed" is the last place to start lol! That house is built on sand, nothing but sand.
Try the Bible being a good place to start.

A JW or a Mormon is just as much a "christian" as a trinitarian is, if any of them are.

None of them worship Jesus as the King of Israel, the Only True Living God. They all have the same fate. None of them have the resurrected Holy Spirit of Christ dwelling in them because their doctrine "prevents" the resurrection and the Life from dwelling in them.
None of them confess Jesus Christ is come in their flesh.

Only those who worship the one true Living God Jesus our LORD are Christians, regardless of 'forum rules' lol.

I am as my master.

(Mar 12:14) And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

Peace

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So did Jesus have a beginning?

The Gnostic said:

Yes he did despite what the trinity doctrine says.He had a birth(Mary)he had a death(on the cross).This is what the NT gospels tell us.

Doesn't get any simplier than that.

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Then He can not atone for your sins because a simple man can not satisfy God's justice. The scriptures tell us that Jesus is of the same nature as God so He could not have been a simple man.

Hentenza said:

So did Jesus have a beginning?

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Yes, thank you for asking!

Here it was prophesied;

(Isa 7:14) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Here is the beginning of fulfillment;

(Mat 1:18) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

This is the beginning of Jesus.

Now, ask me if CHRIST had a beginning (Which is "no" of course)

Then ask me when Jesus was "Christed" and the circumstances surrounding that.

Then ask me when the Christed Jesus became the "first begotten Son of God"

(Luk 3:21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

(Luk 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

(Act 13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


"THIS DAY have I begotten thee"... hmmm, we have the written record what day that was. This is when it becomes awesome!
Now we are in Bible truth territory

(Rom 1:4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

As Paul, this is where we are to be focused. Not upon a "creed".

(Act 24:21) Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.

Our Sonship is One in Christ if we receive the Eternal Christ in us, dwelling in our temple bodies. This can only be by us being baptised with the identical baptism of Jesus, who was resurrected the "Spirit of Holiness by resurrection from the dead"(Rom 1:4)

(Mat 20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
(Mat 20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with

Christ is eternal.
Jesus was born from the flesh.
Jesus submitted all of His self to Christ (father) and at His baptism was filled with His father (Christ) and then showed His Jesus/Christ to all of Israel AFTER being "beggoten" by baptism (which is a synonem for crucifying self and being 'born again' as it is also worded).

"a voice came from heaven" saying this.
Wow.

All of our understanding must pivot on this, and all the scriptures.
We must believe that God can and will enlighten our understanding to those things that He says.

(1Co 1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Only Jesus Christ can open scriptures to us of WHO He is;

(Luk 24:27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

(Luk 24:31) And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
(Luk 24:32) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

But if we fill our brains with the carnal things that men say in their 'creeds', then we have the perfect example of this;

(Mar 7:13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Peace and Blessings in Christ.

Hentenza said:

Then He can not atone for your sins because a simple man can not satisfy God's justice. The scriptures tell us that Jesus is of the same nature as God so He could not have been a simple man.

Click to expand...

He didn't say Jesus was a 'simple man'. What does that even mean?

And please, what scriptures do you assume say that God's justice isn't satisfied in the "MAN" Jesus?

(1Co 15:21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Jesus the MAN, was CHRISTED with GOD. He "submitted" Himself as an obedient man because no other man could. That is how Christ accomplished salvation, in the obedience of Jesus who submitted his self to Christ (Father).

In fact, that exact same thing is the only way in which we are saved. By the obedience of Christ in us, if Jesus is in fact dwelling within us as the Holy Spirit.

It isn't a one or the other kind of thing. There is no such thing as an "incarnation" as the "creed" says. That is eastern paganism.

It is all about sanctification and loving obedience to the Word of God by which only man can live.

Merlinius said:

Yes, thank you for asking!

Here it was prophesied;

(Isa 7:14) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Here is the beginning of fulfillment;

(Mat 1:18) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

This is the beginning of Jesus.

Now, ask me if CHRIST had a beginning (Which is "no" of course)

Then ask me when Jesus was "Christed" and the circumstances surrounding that.

Then ask me when the Christed Jesus became the "first begotten Son of God"

(Luk 3:21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

(Luk 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

(Act 13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


"THIS DAY have I begotten thee"... hmmm, we have the written record what day that was. This is when it becomes awesome!
Now we are in Bible truth territory

(Rom 1:4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

As Paul, this is where we are to be focused. Not upon a "creed".

(Act 24:21) Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.

Our Sonship is One in Christ if we receive the Eternal Christ in us, dwelling in our temple bodies. This can only be by us being baptised with the identical baptism of Jesus, who was resurrected the "Spirit of Holiness by resurrection from the dead"(Rom 1:4)

(Mat 20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
(Mat 20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with

Christ is eternal.
Jesus was born from the flesh.
Jesus submitted all of His self to Christ (father) and at His baptism was filled with His father (Christ) and then showed His Jesus/Christ to all of Israel AFTER being "beggoten" by baptism (which is a synonem for crucifying self and being 'born again' as it is also worded).

"a voice came from heaven" saying this.
Wow.

All of our understanding must pivot on this, and all the scriptures.
We must believe that God can and will enlighten our understanding to those things that He says.

(1Co 1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Only Jesus Christ can open scriptures to us of WHO He is;

(Luk 24:27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

(Luk 24:31) And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
(Luk 24:32) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

But if we fill our brains with the carnal things that men say in their 'creeds', then we have the perfect example of this;

(Mar 7:13)Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Peace and Blessings in Christ.

Click to expand...

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and [k]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [l]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Acts 20:28
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you [q]overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He [r]purchased [s]with His own blood.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of [h]our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1
1 [a]Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same [b]kind as ours, [c]by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Jesus is worshiped even though John tells us that only God should be worshiped.

Rev. 19
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Matt. 28:9
9 And behold, Jesus met them [b]and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.

Do you worship Jesus, Merlinius?