The Nicene Creed.

I only believe as far as the Apostles' Creed, and after that I am unsure about many things, but as far as the Apostles' Creed is concerned, I believe all of it wholeheartedly.

I copied and pasted the only part correct from above; (this is in no wise complete, just what is true from above)

I believe in one God the Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible

The Christ,

by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven

was made man; The Lord Jesus, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven,

the Holy Ghost

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


Once we remove the 'man-added' junk, we are back to what scriptures says.

Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.

How amazingly simple and complete.

And He is Christ and there is no other God, nor two other "same substance co-equal persons" as the polytheistic trinity corruption brainwashes the blind followers of the blind.

There is no greater important thing to believe than this.

Monotheism, not polytheism.

The Gnostic said:

A topic earlier today the Nicene Creed was mentioned.This being the "unorthodox Theology forum" I thought we could discuss what parts of it those who come here agree with and the parts we do not and talk about the reasons why we disagree with them.

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Can I remind anyone with a Christian icon on this Forum that having that icon necessarily denotes agreement with the Nicene Creed.

If you want to state that you disagree with any of it, you will have to lose the icon first, or risk being reported for violating the conditions of membership; I really wouldn't want that to happen to anyone.

I personally affirm Nicene in its entirety, and am very happy to do so.

Watchman on the Wall said:

I only believe as far as the Apostles' Creed, and after that I am unsure about many things, but as far as the Apostles' Creed is concerned, I believe all of it wholeheartedly.

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Unsure is fine, imo.

Denying any part of Nicene while using a Christian icon is not.

Merlinius said:

I copied and pasted the only part correct from above; (this is in no wise complete, just what is true from above)

I believe in one God the Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible

The Christ,

by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven

was made man; The Lord Jesus, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven,

the Holy Ghost

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


Once we remove the 'man-added' junk, we are back to what scriptures says.

Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.

How amazingly simple and complete.

And He is Christ and there is no other God, nor two other "same substance co-equal persons" as the polytheistic trinity corruption brainwashes the blind followers of the blind.

There is no greater important thing to believe than this.

Monotheism, not polytheism.

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The "trinity corruption" is what makes it so hard for Jews and Muslims to become Christians, because they KNOW that God is ONE. My dad recently gave up believing in the trinity doctrine, which is good, but unfortunately he is leaning toward Arianism in his christology. I believe God is both Father and Son, and the Holy Spirit is simply the spirit of God. In other words, the Holy Spirit is also God. But I don't believe the Holy Spirit is a person, per se. So I guess you could say I believe in God being triune, but not in the sense of being "persons" as the trinity dogma states. Some would call me a heretic for not being orthodox enough, and others would call me a heretic for being too orthodox.

A Christian is one who follows Christ; therefore I am a Christian, no matter what man-made dogma my beliefs may run contrary to. Creeds are invented by fallible men; just because Constantine (who never truly converted until he was on his deathbed) "declared" the Holy Spirit to be presiding over the council at Nicea, that does not mean I have to agree with the doctrines invented by him and the other betrayers of the faith at the start of the Roman Catholic church. I wonder why the church stopped being persecuted after 325 A.D., maybe it's because it threw away the Cross in exchange for the favor of the world. And as for being banned from these forums, I would welcome it, if so be that self-righteous hypocrites demand that I submit to a man-made definition of God rather than to God Himself and His holy scriptures.

Watchman on the Wall said:

The "trinity corruption" is what makes it so hard for Jews and Muslims to become Christians, because they KNOW that God is ONE. My dad recently gave up believing in the trinity doctrine, which is good, but unfortunately he is leaning toward Arianism in his christology. I believe God is both Father and Son, and the Holy Spirit is simply the spirit of God. In other words, the Holy Spirit is also God. But I don't believe the Holy Spirit is a person, per se. So I guess you could say I believe in God being triune, but not in the sense of being "persons" as the trinity dogma states. Some would call me a heretic for not being orthodox enough, and others would call me a heretic for being too orthodox.

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Christianity is offensive in the nasty form it takes as corrupted by the trinity doctrine. It is no better than when Israelites forsook YHVH to worship Baal in the O.T.
No difference in the least.

Even Jews and Muslims can see past that corruption.

God Manifestation...

It is all in the progression. The stages of manifestation.

Jesus started as son of man, and at the end of the entire 'glory to glory' process, brings the promise of the Everlasting Father to us. He Fathers us in the New Marriage Covenant. He IS the Holy Spirit Fathering us. He is the Husband to the Church. When we receive Christ we receive HIM, who is Christ Glorified aka the "Holy Spirit", by which Christ Fathers us as sons of God, exactly as He Himself.

That is why the scripture reads the way it does in its summed up progression of prophecy;

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

One person this is speaking of, who started as a son, and after overcoming sin and death, "The everlasting Father".

Jesus.

It is only because of unelightened carnal minds did the trinity doctrine get invented. This is exactly why;

(1Co 2:14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There is nothing honorable in "orthodoxy". It is simply the lair where the beast hides.

but salvation is in Jesus teachings to love one another......if i love as he loved ....ask my father in heaven for mercy and repent of my sins daily and have faith in Jesus....yet believe in the trinity....i have no salvation?.....even if the trinity was false as you say...God does not wink at ignorance?

Narrow-minded means different things to different people, but I agree that calling the trinity a doctrine of death is going a little overboard. I believe that God is triune anyway, so the trinity is not that big of a deal to me, except for the dogmatic way it is presented by insisting that God is three "persons". Aside from this, I see no harm in affirming the finer points of the trinity doctrine, because God is still God and He is above all human understanding anyway. The way I see it, the trinity is man's poor attempt at knowing the unknowable, and is just one more doctrine that human beings invented that limits God.

my point is ....it is knowing perfect doctrine that saves.... or the teachings of Jesus?

Watchman on the Wall said:

Narrow-minded means different things to different people, but I agree that calling the trinity a doctrine of death is going a little overboard. I believe that God is triune anyway, so the trinity is not that big of a deal to me, except for the dogmatic way it is presented by insisting that God is three "persons". Aside from this, I see no harm in affirming the finer points of the trinity doctrine, because God is still God and He is above all human understanding anyway. The way I see it, the trinity is man's poor attempt at knowing the unknowable, and is just one more doctrine that human beings invented that limits God.

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lol...yeah me too.....i mean i dont know everything....but for God to destroy me because i believe in the trinity is just unfair....

dfw69 has brought up an important question...please see my last post in the "Scripture proof: Jesus is God" thread which is also in this forum

especially when it states in scripture that there are 3 witnesses in heaven that bear testimony to the truth of the new testament......there must be 3 persons in the Godhead....because it is written where there are 2 or 3 witnesses then the word is established.....thus God has to be 3 beings in order to testify as truth....not one being....one testimony is not enough.....but it takes 2 or 3 witnesses...and since it states there are 3 in heaven....then the trinity is valid proof

Watchman on the Wall said:

dfw69 has brought up an important question...please see my last post in the "Scripture proof: Jesus is God" thread which is also in this forum

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ok

Doctrine is exactly that...Doctrine is just a way for finite human minds to try to comprehend that which is incomprehensible, and for people to go around arguing about it is just silly. Love God, love your neighbor, and trust in Christ alone for salvation and you can't go far wrong. Everything else will eventually be revealed to us anyway, so what's the point in arguing about it? Just seek and do the will of the Father revealed through the scriptures, and everything else will fall into place on its own.

Watchman on the Wall said:

Doctrine is exactly that...Doctrine is just a way for finite human minds to try to comprehend that which is incomprehensible, and for people to go around arguing about it is just silly. Love God, love your neighbor, and trust in Christ alone for salvation and you can't go far wrong. Everything else will eventually be revealed to us anyway, so what's the point in arguing about it? Just seek and do the will of the Father revealed through the scriptures, and everything else will fall into place on its own.

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amen....wisest thing anyone has ever told me since ive been on this forum....bless you my brother....

Unfortunately 1 John 5:7 has been revealed to be a spurious addition to the text of John's epistle, it is known as the Johannine Comma. Fundamentalists would deny this, but only because they believe the King James Bible to be the only "true" Bible. The King James Bible is one of the few where the Johannine Comma can be found, along with the NKJV if I'm not mistaken. The Spirit, the water, and the blood are the only witnesses, and those are in earth. I don't believe the Johannine Comma is a major stumbling block to get upset over though. Like I said, I believe in the triunity of God anyway, just not the "persons" stuff that the trinity doctrine asserts.

Of course we love one another as Christians.

But that doesn't mean we are to not expose the wolves and their doctrines, and to teach the pure and simple truth of scripture. Ye, we are to not go beyond the word of God, ever. Per the Word of God.

I pray every day and night for God to have mercy upon all folk in ignorance. I pray that all would discover a love for truth within them, and faith that Jesus would guide them into all truth. And I pray for those who are yet ignorant of the issues, that they not be caught up in the strong delusion of believing the lie of the trinity. But delusion is only upon those who don't love truth enough. How do I pray for someone to love truth more to search out all things and test the spirits to see which ones are of God or aren't? Some people just love truth more than others it seems. Most are willing to agree to a statement, not realizing that it is their death warrant in worshipping a false god called a 'trinity'. This is the time to decide what is important folk.
Shall we just "accept" a dogma and waste time talking about what might happen in the future? Or shall we instead fall on our faces and worship Jesus our Savior and rejoice in Righteousness Joy and Peace in the Holy Spirit in the Kingdom of God now?

It is nothing as it seems. The church is full of the "many who are called". But few there be that are Chosen. And those that are Chosen are those who worship Christ as their One Lord.
I pray for His Mercy upon those who have yet to make a decision for Jesus. It is hard to do when you don't know him more than "one of three" in a forbidden polytheistic triad of errors.

(Mal 2:10) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

(Mar 12:32) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(Eph 4:7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
(Eph 4:8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Peace

dfw69 said:

especially when it states in scripture that there are 3 witnesses in heaven that bear testimony to the truth of the new testament......there must be 3 persons in the Godhead....because it is written where there are 2 or 3 witnesses then the word is established.....thus God has to be 3 beings in order to testify as truth....not one being....one testimony is not enough.....but it takes 2 or 3 witnesses...and since it states there are 3 in heaven....then the trinity is valid proof

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That isn't inspired scripture. You only see that in the KJV and it's variants. It was a dishonest 'transliteration'. This is common knowledge. Added by trinitarians specifically.

That's why you won't find it in say, the AV or the RV or any scholarly text...

Here's the erroneous version you are quoting out of, the King James Version. The part in green is not from John or inspired by the Holy Spirit;

KJV(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Here are proper 'scholarly' renderings;

ASV
(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
(1Jn 5:7) And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

RV
(1Jn 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
(1Jn 5:7) And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.


Notice the difference? This should make you a bit angry if you've never been shown this before...