Church?.... dilemma.

Hi Zando !! I'm sorry you feel that way about the churches you have attended....I know of one person who felt that way about churches...The one thing that I told him is that no church is perfect...There is always something you would not like about any church...

I would also encourage you to change your priorities about attending/going to church...The reason, I believe, that we should go to church is to corporately "worship" together with other believers that we don't worship with on a regular basis....we listen to the same songs, listen to the same prayers, listen to the same scripture reading and listen to the same message...and God speaks to all of us at the same time, in a different way...

What you describe is a small group, which is usually something many churches do during the week...I have been part of small groups in the past, and it describes exactly what you are looking for....

I hope and pray you find a church with a small group that you could fellowship with and be able to meet your needs as well as others..be bless..

Simply put, a church service is a time where you come together as a church body, or congregation, to worship God. It is not so much what you are getting out of it as it is what you are putting into it.

That being said, it is also important to be "fed" when you attend a worship service. What you are describing as your preference would a small group, or bible study, which are great as a supplement to corporate worship, but you are limiting yourself to be fed by those few people in your "fellowship". Going to church, which is more a group of people more than it is a building, is to not only get "fed" but to also engage with other believers, especially get some possibly needed direction from the leadership of the church.

HTH

A lot of churches are boring, not engaging, and really can even be a negative influence on your faith. I remember when I was younger I used to hate going to church it was so boring, and it really made me drift away from God for plenty of years. It wasn't till I was years older that I actually found pastors who opened my eyes to the faith, and could preach and teach to me.

Church is important and can be beneficial to your faith, you just have to find the right one. Although, it's easier said then done.

Zando said:

I don't go to church, but I am looking for brothers and sisters in christ.

I'm not looking for a "church" I'm looking for a fellowship. Honestly I find church services boring, very impersonal and overall not engaging. That's every church I've been to and I've been to about 7 or 8 in my life so far. I never liked the idea of sitting in a pew for hours listening to a man or woman at a pulpit scream verses or sermons. I never felt like I accomplished anything sitting at a church other than singing, saying a prayer when I'm told to and hearing verses that I've heard a million times before. Church service has never been an outlet for me just more of an inconvenience. This is why I'm looking for a fellowship. A place like in someone's home where we sit around an enjoy each others company. Tell each other our struggles, ask questions about scripture that we don't understand. Learn together, support each other, have a dialogue and grow closer. Something more personal. Something that doesn't seem like such a facade put on for face value just to have a specific appearance of holiness. I want to hang out with my brothers and sister in Christ where I'm most comfortable, where I'm not expected to have to "wear this" or "bow my head" at this moment. I want to really fellowship the way Christ intended us to. I don't feel like i'm with family when I'm in a church building and I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ an important part of my family. Am I being unreasonable or has anyone else felt this way?

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Hi

Unlike the other posters here, I like you don't think you need to go to church and I don't. I infact left church and that was when I truly found Christ.

athenken said:

Simply put, a church service is a time where you come together as a church body, or congregation, to worship God. It is not so much what you are getting out of it as it is what you are putting into it.

That being said, it is also important to be "fed" when you attend a worship service. What you are describing as your preference would a small group, or bible study, which are great as a supplement to corporate worship, but you are limiting yourself to be fed by those few people in your "fellowship". Going to church, which is more a group of people more than it is a building, is to not only get "fed" but to also engage with other believers, especially get some possibly needed direction from the leadership of the church.

HTH

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I more or less disagree about the concept of "fed". I think that for personal growth and improved understanding of the scriptures, a close dedicated group is much better! But HTH is right in the fact that it is also limiting at the same time, because those groups are in my experience always the same few people.

OTOH the whole celebration has all the people you need, but it won't let you "grow" much, and only the celebrant will teach you something through his sermon (which is in fact my favourite part of the Mass) although it will be a one-way only teaching, thus not as useful as a discussion. The Mass is useful for other reasons than learning: to hear the scriptures (granted, you could help yourself and read them at home, but Sunday Mass guaratees that you'll always hear at least 3 pieces per week), to strengthen your sense of community, and of course for the sacraments.

I think every parish of every confession more or less must have some groups for reading the Bible or just for discussions, it shouldn't be hard to find some!

Zando said:

I don't go to church, but I am looking for brothers and sisters in christ.

I'm not looking for a "church" I'm looking for a fellowship. Honestly I find church services boring, very impersonal and overall not engaging.

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Then you are looking for church, true church, unlike what you, and most people refer to as "church".

True church was never boring - it starts with baptism in God's Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues and then it is a sharing of the glory of God which all members have and are growing in. 1 Corinthians 14 details how meetings should be, with all members encouraged to give and receive clear inspiration from God.

Our "formal" meetings have:
spiritual songs - these truly inspire as they are about the good news
personal testimony - here's a couple from yesterday:
Grace - was brought up to "go to church" but never received the Spirit, struggled to keep her job, started trying different churches, came to us and we told her straight what I told you - she called on The Lord & received and found that her negative thoughts that made her depressed were gone, she appreciates she has "treasure in earthen vessel".

Jamie - rejected his catholic up-bringing, started looking at "positive thinking", noticed that they sometimes quoted the bible so decided to cut out the middle men & go straight to source. Soon after heb met one of us and demanded to be baptised and prayed & received the Spirit ... now he has friends that lasts decades because they are based on something good, not the old "fly-by-night" existence.

Communion (cracker & grape juice) - sundays only

2 or 3 gifts of tongues, each followed by a gift of interpretation (also from God's Spirit, not man's mind)

2 or 3 gifts of prophecy

bible-based talk - sunday's was about the significance of vineyards and how to guard against "the little foxes".

prayer line - gifts of faith and healing

close, chat, eat etc.

Then we have activities that people can enjoy or even get involved in - concerts, dinner evenings, presentations, outreaches, ask questions evenings etc

Zando said:

That's every church I've been to and I've been to about 7 or 8 in my life so far. I never liked the idea of sitting in a pew for hours listening to a man or woman at a pulpit scream verses or sermons. I never felt like I accomplished anything sitting at a church other than singing, saying a prayer when I'm told to and hearing verses that I've heard a million times before.

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Indeed, I walked away from that 25 years ago, and never the twain shall meet.
It benefitted me more to get out & play tennis!
By having a set liturgy they had decided what they thing God should say (and do, i.e. nothing) years in advance! - not the God I believe in!

At the other extreme you have so-called "free worship" where anyone can say or do whatever they thing the Spirit is leading them to do - this does not promote unity or proper vision.

just check your heart, i think what you are searching is already in the church. the fellowship with fellow believers.

Good luck. I have been to a few churches. If they don't want you there you are out of luck. You have to be cool or in or something to be accepted.

Churches don't welcome people like they used to. I have been trying to find real fellowship for years and years. Sorry, I hope you have better "luck".

SavedByTheCross said:

A lot of churches are boring, not engaging, and really can even be a negative influence on your faith. I remember when I was younger I used to hate going to church it was so boring, and it really made me drift away from God for plenty of years. It wasn't till I was years older that I actually found pastors who opened my eyes to the faith, and could preach and teach to me.

Church is important and can be beneficial to your faith, you just have to find the right one. Although, it's easier said then done.

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Not easy at all. Some churches have become exclusives clubs. Not all are allowed in.

Zando said:

I don't go to church, but I am looking for brothers and sisters in christ.

I'm not looking for a "church" I'm looking for a fellowship. Honestly I find church services boring, very impersonal and overall not engaging. That's every church I've been to and I've been to about 7 or 8 in my life so far. I never liked the idea of sitting in a pew for hours listening to a man or woman at a pulpit scream verses or sermons. I never felt like I accomplished anything sitting at a church other than singing, saying a prayer when I'm told to and hearing verses that I've heard a million times before. Church service has never been an outlet for me just more of an inconvenience. This is why I'm looking for a fellowship. A place like in someone's home where we sit around an enjoy each others company. Tell each other our struggles, ask questions about scripture that we don't understand. Learn together, support each other, have a dialogue and grow closer. Something more personal. Something that doesn't seem like such a facade put on for face value just to have a specific appearance of holiness. I want to hang out with my brothers and sister in Christ where I'm most comfortable, where I'm not expected to have to "wear this" or "bow my head" at this moment. I want to really fellowship the way Christ intended us to. I don't feel like i'm with family when I'm in a church building and I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ an important part of my family. Am I being unreasonable or has anyone else felt this way?

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I feel the same way.

Hi there.
Let's pray for all people who think that 2012 is the end of the world, brothers and sisters.
Hope they will think more clear.

May I ask what your denomination is? I desperately need a fellowship that has Gods Holy Spirit in it working actively. Ive been praying for guidance and what you described is what I am looking for.

Re Zando
I am sure you are not alone in your thoughts .

I have been to many churches over the yrs , and I stopped going to them regularly the last 3 yrs , My relationship with God is better than ever . But I do miss the kind of groups you mention , they are a good thing if you can find one . But if you cannot find one , then trust God and read the Bible for your spiritual needs prayerfully ! You will not be disappointed . But it takes a lot of effort( your whole heart ) and prayer . But so worth it . We must be like the disciples that said to the Lord where else can we go ? You have the words of life .

Why did I stop going to churches ? Because they taught or consented to sin , that was clearly wrong . They do not believe in many cases that it is sin , but it reveals just how blind they are to the scriptures . Too bad for them . We must separate ourselves from sin if we want to walk with God . That is far more important than fellowship , if it is a sinful fellowship that is . That can be a hard thing to come to understand for many . But my experience has proven correct . God has been very faithful to me , I am learning to trust Him more and getting to know him more , I do pray to meet others of like faith , but I do not meet very many , very few as a matter of fact .

I could speak much on this subject .

A verse that is so important to depend on like so many others is "2 Timothy v16,17"

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may be perfect , throughly furnished unto all good works ".

Yes the bible is the COMPLETE instruction book , asking God in Jesus Christ name to help you with it is very important . The bible can be just so amazing to read when God opens up your understanding , 1 yr in seminary = a day with God in the Bible .

May God Bless you as you read his word !

What you describe is the way the early church gathered -- in homes. It is completely valid, and is how Christians in Communist and Islamic countries had to manage for many years.

What makes a gathering of 200+ with a sermon and three songs more valid than a Bible study with prayer and singing? I tend to think the small group wins out for impact of the believer's growth and influence.

You can find these groups through churches, or by asking around. They will be called Cell Groups, Bible Studies, Prayer Meetings, Home Groups, (Does Alpha fit this?), Fellowships or gatherings.

If you call a church office and ask how to join a home group, they will probably not ask whether you attend the church or not. If you ask about mid-week Bible Studies you might find one in the building that's predominantly young mothers with retired people... or an evening one while kids are in youth group. Those are easy to slip into, and give you a good indication of what the church members are like.

Mennonite services are more intimate and interactive -- members may take turns leading parts of the service. You can also find a more interactive service at some Charismatic churches.

There are also meetings on college campuses, in coffee houses, in meetup groups. Keep seeking, keep knocking. (-;

Hello Zando. I know exactly how you feel, and the truth is that the Holy Spirit is starting to work in your heart to draw you away from the religious system. What you have expressed in your concerns shows a desire inside of you for true fellowship with true brothers in Christ. I encourage you to pray to the Lord to show you the wisdom in this matter, and ask the Lord to show you through the scriptures how UN-biblical churches are today. God wants to draw you out, as He says, "Come out of her, my people, and be ye separate"

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! - pslams 133:1

Please contact me if you want more information about coming out of the religious system.

Honestly I find church services boring, very impersonal and overall not engaging. That's every church I've been to and I've been to about 7 or 8 in my life so far. I never liked the idea of sitting in a pew for hours listening to a man or woman at a pulpit scream verses or sermons. I never felt like I accomplished anything sitting at a church other than singing, saying a prayer when I'm told to and hearing verses that I've heard a million times before. Church service has never been an outlet for me just more of an inconvenience

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I Live in the Bible belt of the Deep South and you hit the nail on the head for most of em.
One bunch that may be more to your likeing are those that I have found in college towns. They seem to have more of an emphais on teaching and having the luxory of resources of universities nearby often have college level teachers in their midst. You might Try Melissa Scott (TV & Shortwave radio) for a sample of what I'm taking about. See Los Angeles University Cathedral on the web. Dr Eugene Scott was the pastor and was known as a World of Faith unorthodox "shock jock". His preaching was not for everybody either. It is for the format tht I recommend Melissa be viewed.

I make it a regular practice to "visit" a couple of different places. You will never find the perfect chruch. It's like the perfect house, some compromises have to be made, if you get the right area, you might not like the lack of service work or something. For me it's like buying a house with good school zones. You got to live somewhere & you need the best teaching available, the worship can be had at home. Find a good "sunday School" and skip the main service if it bores you. Join A good study group, use the TV bunch if they offer something you like. One thing about them, they got the best websites you'll sever find.

You will find fellowship along the way, remember christrian friends are no different than any other kind, if you find 3 or 4 real ones by the time you are 50 count yourself blessed. I was spiritually abused in the church years ago and it has left me a bitter taste for organized religion, especially those going through growing pains, growth for a church is almost like having a teenager--all kinds of personalities come out you did not even know were there, and there is very little to lilke about it til that phase is over I like the small study groups that change with the subject matter. I have made several good contacts through these and they offer genuine spiritual experiences and are discussion based more than theology based.

Churches are like resturants, go where you like the food, the service and the ambiance. Do your service work at charitable organizations and away from your home based church if you want to avoid controversy and power struggles of the small elect few who do most of the work. I do beleive your tithe belongs to your local church (But that's just a personal belief) The important thing is to plant yourself somewhere and then grow. If you are somewhere you have outgrown-then by all means move to the next realm.

Just suggestions, it's like a gym, if you don't enjoy it you won't stick with it and if you did it's for the wrong reason. You are not doing God a favor by going to church and He does not need your money. You go for you so that you can grow and fill your tank, so you can go out in the world with THE light. Keep going, you will get there!