Could animals ever communicate with humans?

In Genesis we are told that the serpent decieved Eve by telling her that she really wouldn't die if she ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge od Good and Evil. Now, we know that today people and snakes (or any other creature for that matter) really do not (or cannot) talk to one another. Or do they?

A variety of birds can talk. Some would argue this is just mimicry, yet it is a well known fact that those birds CAN learn to speak human language whether or not it is thoughtful speech or in fact imitation.

Different primates have been taught sign language. It can be argued that this too is just a form of mimicry and nothing more, yet some primates have been shown to pick up sign language from other primates and not from human intervention.

Dogs (and cats too, to an extent) know commands given by their owners. Dogs can recognize voice commands and hand gestures. It seems a dog can also sense when his master is sad or happy and playful. And arguably, if we cannot communicate with our pets, then we are the crazy ones for how we talk to them!

It is known that whales can talk to one another over many miles.

We know that many animals communicate with each other during mating seasons in attempts to acquire a mate.

I thought of an example I would like to make now. Imagine yourself as a born and bred Midwestern boy (or girl) who had never heard of Rosetta Stone software. One day you went over to France. Now, you could talk all you wanted to with the French and they could talk all day with you, but at the end of the day, if you're both not talking the same language it's going to sound like just a bunch of noise on either side listening. It would not be that neither side is communicating, it is that each side is not comprehending the other.

Bottom line is this: We know that animals communicate with other animals of the same species via whatever noises they make. Dogs bark, cats meow, crickets chirp, etcetera, etcetera. We know that humans speak with other humans via the noises we make. I know that if I am talking to a Spanish speaking person, and they answer a "yes or no" question with "si", I know that means "yes" because I have the comprehension to translate their language to mine. If someone from China greets me with "Neho" I know that they just said "Hello" to me in their own language. What if we have lost the ability to understand what a bark from a dog means or the meow of a cat? What if the language barrier that exists between humans and animals is nothing more than a comprehension barrier?

What are your thoughts on this?

In Christ, GB

Well, one important difference you should first consider is that cats and dogs are different species from us, unlike Spanish and Chinese people. Things like smiles, tears, and laughter are universal throughout the human species, and are probably more comparable to dogs barking and cats meowing than out actual languages.

Delphiki said:

Well, one important difference you should first consider is that cats and dogs are different species from us, unlike Spanish and Chinese people. Things like smiles, tears, and laughter are universal throughout the human species, and are probably more comparable to dogs barking and cats meowing than out actual languages.

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And yet those evolutionarily closest to us don't use the same behaviours for the same things.

Isn't smiling a sign of aggression among chimpanzees?

Cabal said:

And yet those evolutionarily closest to us don't use the same behaviours for the same things.

Isn't smiling a sign of aggression among chimpanzees?

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It is for dogs. Don't ever smile at a dog that you think would bite you, because smiling is 'baring your teeth' - a sign of aggression.

Delphiki said:

Well, one important difference you should first consider is that cats and dogs are different species from us, unlike Spanish and Chinese people. Things like smiles, tears, and laughter are universal throughout the human species, and are probably more comparable to dogs barking and cats meowing than out actual languages.

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You bring up a great point, but think about this. Have you ever approached a dog to pet it, then backed away as it growled at you? You have ultimately understood it's language. A hissing cat with it's hair on end is not something one would put on their lap to pet, at least at that moment. In the same manner, a dog with it's tail wagging wildly is sure to be a fun encounter to play with. Again, one has comprehended what the dog is trying to convey. A dog with it's tail tucked between it's legs is demonstrable of that dog having just been chastised. A limping dog shows a hurt dog. Now, most of those are body language signs that give us clues to know how the dog is feeling, but a majority of our own language is body language and unspoken or it is contextualized, not contentualized (did I just make up a word?) An example of context versus content would be online. if I say "ha" it doesn't mean much, however, if I say "HA" you can imagine a hearty and loud noise from deep with in my chest. both are the same words, but understood from context.

What if we just don't understand the context of barks? My dog is a real talker. He barks, as any dog, but he also has some strange vocalization. It is hard to explain the noise he makes online, but it is like a howl that is controlled and changes tones. Kind of a "Raaawwwoooooaaawooo" I know, that probably looks pretty stupid as you read it, but it makes perfect sense to me. There are times (most in fact) that he greets me with a sound that sounds eerily like Scooby Doo saying "Rerro" ("hello" for those who are not followers of one of the best cartoons of all time).

I am not making this my Waterloo or anything, but I do think it's very interesting to talk about. Perhaps other people have stories of how their animals "talk" to them. I would be interested in hearing them!

In Christ, GB

good brother said:

"Raaawwwoooooaaawooo"

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My dog does this too. It's usually when he's trying to tell us he wants something really badly.. like when we're eating and he wants a bite.

selfinflikted said:

My dog does this too. It's usually when he's trying to tell us he wants something really badly.. like when we're eating and he wants a bite.

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What kind of dog do you have? Mine is a three part mix of Siberian Husky, Saint Bernard, and a Great Pyrenese. He is a huge dog with a huge playful attitude. He wasn't what I wanted to get for a dog (I wanted an Australian Shepherd) but in retrospect, I could not have asked for a better dog than the one we have. He is great with my little son and he is a protector extraordinaire!

In Christ, GB

good brother said:

What kind of dog do you have?

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We have a daschund. Small dog, HUGE bark. He's the loudest dog I've ever heard, in fact.

selfinflikted said:

We have a daschund. Small dog, HUGE bark. He's the loudest dog I've ever heard, in fact.

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I've met quite a few big dogs in small packages. There is a little dog on the route that I take my dog on for walks that comes right up to mine to nip at my dog even though he doesn't even come up to my dog's knees! My dog just kinda looks at him and side steps him. Then my dog like to mark his territory at the edge of this little dog's yard, I think just to show him who is boss. It's funny. Anyway, you would think that little dog is a Great Dane for how it acts!

In Christ, GB

good brother said:

In Genesis we are told that the serpent decieved Eve by telling her that she really wouldn't die if she ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge od Good and Evil. Now, we know that today people and snakes (or any other creature for that matter) really do not (or cannot) talk to one another. Or do they?

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Oh please, don't try to rationalize this. The snake was the devil. That is all.

CabVet said:

Oh please, don't try to rationalize this. The snake was the devil. That is all.

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It's a fable. The snake represents evil. Luring man into doing something bad. It's not real. It's just an explanation for how a perfect deity could create something as impure as we are. Simple, we screwed up. It's our fault.

Duh.

Phred said:

It's a fable. The snake represents evil. Luring man into doing something bad. It's not real. It's just an explanation for how a perfect deity could create something as impure as we are. Simple, we screwed up. It's our fault.

Duh.

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That is my point, no need to go look for communication between man and animals today to rationalize this story, and that seems to be the point of this thread.

good brother said:

I've met quite a few big dogs in small packages. There is a little dog on the route that I take my dog on for walks that comes right up to mine to nip at my dog even though he doesn't even come up to my dog's knees! My dog just kinda looks at him and side steps him. Then my dog like to mark his territory at the edge of this little dog's yard, I think just to show him who is boss. It's funny. Anyway, you would think that little dog is a Great Dane for how it acts!

In Christ, GB

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Don't misunderstand.. my dog has a HUGE bark, but is the wimpiest little thing. He wouldn't even go up to a bigger dog, much less nip at one. He'd stand what he would consider a 'safe' distance away and just...bark. Loudly. Incessantly.

CabVet said:

Oh please, don't try to rationalize this. The snake was the devil. That is all.

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Yes, and no. The serpent definitely represents Satan as that is his name throughout the Bible.

Anyway, let's look at the Scripture. You are, after all, at least partially correct.

Perhaps the Devil had attempted the deception before by embodying a cow or a hippo. Perhaps the only way the con could work was to embody a real smooth talker- enter the serpent.

This is not the only passage in the Bible that refers to animals speaking. There is another set of verses found in Numbers 22

Looking at that passage, we can see that before the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, the donkey was dumb (of speech) not by choice, but by divine edict. After the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, it made a cognizant sentence. It asked Balaam why he would beat it when it had been a good donkey for all these years.

As I said in another post on this thread, this is not my Waterloo, but it is interesting to talk about.

In Christ, GB

Phred said:

It's a fable. The snake represents evil. Luring man into doing something bad. It's not real. It's just an explanation for how a perfect deity could create something as impure as we are. Simple, we screwed up. It's our fault.

Duh.

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While I agree that your thoughts are exactly what the underlying message may be, I disagree with you that we can simply dismiss it as just a fable. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean we can just say, "Eh, must be a fable."

In Christ, GB

ryeaber said:

Bowlingual Dog Translator Dog Translator, Bowlingual Dog Bark Translator, Dog Bark Translator, Dog Translator, Takara Bowlingual Dog Translator, Bow-lingual

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That's hilarious. Good call.

good brother said:

While I agree that your thoughts are exactly what the underlying message may be, I disagree with you that we can simply dismiss it as just a fable. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean we can just say, "Eh, must be a fable."

In Christ, GB

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While I realize that many people have spent many hours pouring over these tales trying to find meaning in them and, by doing so, have found meaning in their own lives... that doesn't mean these are anything more than the efforts of men to try and understand their world.

You see, you're looking at these stories and you're saying to yourself, God was involved here. This has meaning. I may not see it but it's there.

Stop for a minute and realize that even if there is a god who created the world there may not be an account of it.

Instead imagine that you are a grandfather. You've lived to be 40. You're old. You're sitting around a fire and you're asked questions by members of your tribe. How did the world come about Grandfather? How did we get here?

Nobody ever thought of these things before. Nobody had time. Everyone was too busy just surviving. But little by little men have learned to cooperate and your tribe is herding sheep now. You don't always have to hunt them down. You've noticed that there are causes and effects in the world. A then B. Since you had a mom and she had a mom and she had a mom... this must go back in time. Until there were just two!

And every tribe has their own grandfather who makes up their own stories. The world is created this way and that way. And somehow the concept of an unseen force is thought of. A god! There's one who makes it rain. One for the wind. One for a good hunt... I throw my spear but a god sends it home. And Grandfather, or Grandmother puts it all together.

And when the questions are asked, they must have the answers. After all, that's what they do now. It's their value to the tribe.

Little by little these tribes get bigger. Some defeat others. They kill all the men and rape the women. Thus ensuring their genes are the ones that continue on. It's in the Bible... And with their genes so continue their myths.

And you want to tell me that the story of Adam and Eve and the serpent is more than just a fable? It's one that survived but it's no more than any other creation myth. It is men trying to make sense of their world.

Someone. Made. It. Up. The propagation was luck, and being made up by the right side. Add in a decision by Constantine and here we are.

selfinflikted said:

We have a daschund. Small dog, HUGE bark. He's the loudest dog I've ever heard, in fact.

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Awww. I had a dachshund. Well, my dad had one, so it was mine every other weekend. He was the sweetest dog in the world. He'd jump and snuggle up with me in the mornings...though I'd eventually have to shove him away, as I'm allergic to every animal with fur and eventually breathing > snuggling with Jasper.

He had cancer and we had to put him down. I'd never understood how the death of a pet could affect you like the death of a family member until then.



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hollyda said:

Awww. I had a dachshund. Well, my dad had one, so it was mine every other weekend. He was the sweetest dog in the world. He'd jump and snuggle up with me in the mornings...though I'd eventually have to shove him away, as I'm allergic to every animal with fur and eventually breathing > snuggling with Jasper.

He had cancer and we had to put him down. I'd never understood how the death of a pet could affect you like the death of a family member until then.

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Awww. I just love our dog. His name is "Little Hadley" (don't ask) but we actually call him and he responds to "BooBoo." He has the best little personality, he never bites/chews/poos on the floor/or anything. About the only irritating thing I can say about this dog is, when he gets REALLY excited, like when I come home from work, sometimes.. he pees. He can't help it though, and I read somewhere that some dogs do that to show their submission. But, I figure, if that's the worst he ever does.. I can live with that