License to Procreate

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Sailor_A

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Are there people who think its ok to hit and beat and abuse kids on here cause if that is what it is about then they really shouldnot have any kids

I use hit instead of spank because I'm not American and it sounds a little silly to say "spank" to me. When you spank a person you are hitting them. Or are we talking of something different. My mother from Jamaica calls it beating though I assume no one here is speaking of severe beatings.
 
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JaneFW

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I use hit instead of spank because I'm not American and it sounds a little silly to say "spank" to me. When you spank a person you are hitting them. Or are we talking of something different. My mother from Jamaica calls it beating though I assume no one here is speaking of severe beatings.
I understand because you know I am from your part of the world, and I would say "hit" or "smack" and here those words mean something far more extreme, and that's why they say "spank" but yes, I tend to think of Madonna singing "Hanky Panky". LOL.
 
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Erth

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So when people ask you explain something, you generally say that if they didn't understand it, oh well, someone else did?

Yes.

If I knew that I posted something that could easily be misinterpreted, or something that diverged so much from common language that an explanation was due, then by all means I would explain it better. But that's not the case here. What I think this is about is more some kind of absurd interrogation.
 
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JaneFW

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Yes.

If I knew that I posted something that could easily be misinterpreted, or something that diverged so much from common language that an explanation was due, then by all means I would explain it better. But that's not the case here. What I think this is about is more some kind of absurd interrogation.
Wouldn't be just a question about how the statement fitted the theme of the thread of course. Whatevs.
 
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JaneFW

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You know this is a great example. I've really thought a lot about my own opinion of hitting children because of this thread. Logically, morally I think it is wrong but again practically it works.
I'm glad you are having second thoughts about it. :)
 
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Avniel

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I'd say that children who are hit in most cases grow up to be perfectly functional, as in the adverse effects seems quite small. I also have heard from parents about children who sound horrendous; nothing will induce them to behave apart from being smacked. So by "works" I mean as a method of discipline. I mean what do you do if nothing else works? I think if people were sure of the alternatives they would not be so quick to hit.

There are people in this world that dont understand level me alone your in my personal space do I have the right to hit them also?

No.

The fact is if your children dont respect you enough to heed your words then there is something wrong with the adult. If you cant speak to a person and they listen then you its your approach tone and ability to be a leader
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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Except he already admitted to having skimmed my posts which resulted in him saying I said things I didn't and refuting points I never made.

I have refuted you saying that you believe spanking should be illegal. That post I didn't skim. You yourself said that you would be fine with making it illegal.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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dsrohe, you and I are having a conversation face to face, you say something I don't like, I tell you I don't like it and ask for an apology. You refuse to apologise so then I spank you firmly on the top of your leg as punishment. I don't leave a mark but it did sting. Did I just assault you?

You're not my parent, and I'm an adult. So it would be assault.

A similar situation using your scenario would be this: "dsrohe, you and I are having a conversation face to face, you say something I don't like, I tell you I don't like it and ask for an apology. You refuse to apologize so then I drag you against your will home with me and put you in a timeout till I feel you have been sufficiently calmed down and are apologetic. I don't leave any marks but I did just drag you against your will to my house. Did I just kidnap you?"

In the scenario I just made up using yours as a template, you did just kidnap me which is definitely illegal. Parents do the exact thing to their kids all the time though, because parents are in direct authority and have legal responsibility over their children. A parent has the authority to drag their kids from wherever and take them to wherever. A kid has no say whatsoever in those regards. But a random adult DOES NOT have the authority to drag another random adult or another person's kids around in the same manner. An adult also does not have the authority to discipline another adult or another person's kids.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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Are there people who think its ok to hit and beat and abuse kids on here cause if that is what it is about then they really shouldnot have any kids

Everyone on here believes it is wrong to hit and beat and abuse kids.

The question is CAN loving discipline include spankings or are spankings inherently abusive and "violent".

Many here believe spankings are inherently abusive and violent while others believe that spankings can be used lovingly and effectively as a tool for discipline.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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You know this is a great example. I've really thought a lot about my own opinion of hitting children because of this thread. Logically, morally I think it is wrong but again practically it works.

See my rebuttal to Dreamers scenario. Her scenario makes ANY sort of discipline levied against another, random adult sound absolutely ridiculous and most of the time illegal.

If you disagree with me, next time you disagree with a random adult about something, forcibly take them home with you in your car and put them in time out until they are apologetic. After you release them, see how long before you are being charged with felony kidnapping.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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We spanked our children according to how FoF (Dobson) taught. One was never supposed to do it in anger and it was better not to use your hand for it but a wooden spoon, and it is reserved for acts of defiance against boundaries which have been clearly stated (never for childish irresponsibility such as spilling milk or breaking something accidentally).

Now that I am older with 4 of our 8 children grown, I might change some of how we did it. But our 4 grown children are all law abiding, tax paying citizens. So despite our flaws (which are many), we must have done something right with the discipline?

We have Christian relatives our age who had a liberal education and were very anti-spanking. They also homeschooled straight through and were very involved with church and awana and whatnot. So, they were a lot like us, only we spanked and they didn't. 3 out of their 4 children have had drug problems and problems holding jobs. One appears to be permanently brain injured from the drug use (delusional, hallucinations, had to move home to be cared for).

I would say, especially for children 5 and under who cannot think abstractly that if they are in danger of self destruction, they must experience pain and fear such that they will not try that again. And for my children, a couple stinging swats with a spoon on the fatty part of the butt (not hard enough to leave any marks) was enough pain for them not to do it again.

So, pre-school child runs into the street- spanking. 2 year old tries to stick a paper clip in the electrical socket- spanking
(or I remember swatting their hand because my children tried it as soon as they could crawl). And I distinctly remember several of my children shop lifting at young ages- spanking , AND if they made it home with the item they had to go back and confess to the clerk (who made a big deal about forgiving them since they were honest instead of calling the POLICE)!

Good post!

According to many on here, you were being inherently violent by spanking. People like yourself who demonstrate their love for their children during and after any form of discipline and who are legitimately striving to be the best parent they can be by not disciplining out of anger are not violent in whatever form of discipline they choose to utilize. In my opinion your friends who under disciplined or really didn't discipline their children at all from the sounds of it, were doing the unloving thing by not disciplining their child.

Do you anti-spankers believe Psalms was being inherently violent with her spankings? From my own personal experience, spankings (and any other form of discipline), when used properly and lovingly, are not violent whatsoever.

For clarity since some people have been confused before--I am not saying that spanking is the ONLY effective tool of discipline. What I am saying is that spankings (just like any other form of discipline), when used correctly, is an effective and loving way of disciplining certain children.

What I believe anti-spankers need to be careful of, as Psalms friends demonstrate, is the need for discipline whatever form/tool it comes in. In Psalms friends' case, they were anti-spanking and apparently became anti-discipline and their children reaped the destruction of a non structured childhood under the loving guidance of their parents. So if you are anti-spanking, make sure to keep it at that and don't become anti-discipline.

So all parents out there, if you don't get anything else from this thread, whether you believe spankings are morally sound tool of discipline or not, make sure you are still lovingly disciplining your children because if you don't, they will end up learning (or maybe never learning) the hard way.
 
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Psalm63

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I'm not sure if you're arguing with my post or not...either way, you just proved what I said to be correct. :p And I think establishing your role as the "parental authority" should start before preschool. My daughter knew well before preschool that if mommy said "no" then that meant she shouldn't do xyz.

Seems we agree then? I was using preschool as in "before kindergarten age".

The necessity to establish parental authority and for the children to obey me is for their own good, for their own safety and well being. It's similar to how we need to obey God in adulthood for our own safety and well being.

The consequences for crossing the line as a 2-5 year old is a couple swats on the tush and they learn not to cross the lines. If they don't learn and they cross lines when they are teenagers and adults, the consequences might be brain damage from drugs, a brain injury from drunk driving, etc...
 
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Created2Write

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You're not my parent, and I'm an adult. So it would be assault.

A similar situation using your scenario would be this: "dsrohe, you and I are having a conversation face to face, you say something I don't like, I tell you I don't like it and ask for an apology. You refuse to apologize so then I drag you against your will home with me and put you in a timeout till I feel you have been sufficiently calmed down and are apologetic. I don't leave any marks but I did just drag you against your will to my house. Did I just kidnap you?"

In the scenario I just made up using yours as a template, you did just kidnap me which is definitely illegal. Parents do the exact thing to their kids all the time though, because parents are in direct authority and have legal responsibility over their children. A parent has the authority to drag their kids from wherever and take them to wherever. A kid has no say whatsoever in those regards. But a random adult DOES NOT have the authority to drag another random adult or another person's kids around in the same manner. An adult also does not have the authority to discipline another adult or another person's kids.

SUCH great post! QFT!!
 
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Created2Write

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Seems we agree then? I was using preschool as in "before kindergarten age".

The necessity to establish parental authority and for the children to obey me is for their own good, for their own safety and well being. It's similar to how we need to obey God in adulthood for our own safety and well being.

The consequences for crossing the line as a 2-5 year old is a couple swats on the tush and they learn not to cross the lines. If they don't learn and they cross lines when they are teenagers and adults, the consequences might be brain damage from drugs, a brain injury from drunk driving, etc...

:clap::clap::clap:

Totally agree.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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Seems we agree then? I was using preschool as in "before kindergarten age".

The necessity to establish parental authority and for the children to obey me is for their own good, for their own safety and well being. It's similar to how we need to obey God in adulthood for our own safety and well being.

The consequences for crossing the line as a 2-5 year old is a couple swats on the tush and they learn not to cross the lines. If they don't learn and they cross lines when they are teenagers and adults, the consequences might be brain damage from drugs, a brain injury from drunk driving, etc...

:thumbsup: Awesome post! I completely agree.
 
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