If a brother or sister you knew started fornicating would you keep company with him?

acropolis said:

I'd probably leave the room until they were finished.

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LOL

Lord Of The Forest said:

If a person is living in sin, knows they are living in sin, doesn't care, and still continues to profess Christ, it is time to break fellowship.

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Would Jesus break fellowship with such a person? Do you think God does not consider such a person part of His people, even if they have faith in Christ?

Would Jesus break fellowship with such a person? Do you think God does not consider such a person part of His people, even if they have faith in Christ?

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As in, would He discourage them from partaking of the Sacrament, and allowing them to be in leadership positions in the Church? Yes, I believe He would.

In terms of breaking fellowship with those living in sin, but still claiming to follow Him, He did:

Jeremiah 3:6-8 "The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: "Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot.
And I said, after she had done all these things, 'Return to Me.' But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also."


EDIT - Furthermore, I don't think this injunction would be in the Bible if God didn't want us to do it in its proper time. Take your complaints to God, and perhaps He will give you your answer.

Earlier this year before my De-conversion..someone I know was planning on having an "adulterous" relationship with a married woman. Me and a friend confronted him about it and stopped it before it begun because we didn't want him to willingly fall. Did we do the right thing?

If they were living in fornication and refuse to repent from it, I wouldn't hang around them anymore.

Let me clarify, I wouldn't totally abandon them. But hanging out with them and going out on a regular basis would cease. Bad company corrupts.

Apollo Celestio said:

Earlier this year before my De-conversion..someone I know was planning on having an "adulterous" relationship with a married woman. Me and a friend confronted him about it and stopped it before it begun because we didn't want him to willingly fall. Did we do the right thing?

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I would say so. But then later on he probably went ahead and did what he wanted to do without you and your friend knowing.

Lord Of The Forest said:

As in, would He discourage them from partaking of the Sacrament, and allowing them to be in leadership positions in the Church? Yes, I believe He would.

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And where do you get this idea? Jesus never says anything about cutting people off from the “Sacraments” and never says anything about church leadership. The people Jesus typically condemned were the religious people who cut off “sinners” from fellowship.

Paul talks about not eating the supper in an unworthy manner, but it’s clear he’s talking there about people who would eat all the food before everyone got there (1 Cor. 11:21-22, 33-34) and in 1 Cor. 10, he’s talking about idolatry. He says nothing about premarital sex, which again, I assume is what everyone is talking about, but I’m not really sure.

Lord Of The Forest said:

In terms of breaking fellowship with those living in sin, but still claiming to follow Him, He did:

Jeremiah 3:6-8 "The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: "Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot.
And I said, after she had done all these things, 'Return to Me.' But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also."

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Still nothing about premarital sex. Besides, quoting from the way God dealt with Israel in the OT isn’t exactly convincing. Why not look at the way Jesus treated people in the Gospels?

Lord Of The Forest said:

EDIT - Furthermore, I don't think this injunction would be in the Bible if God didn't want us to do it in its proper time.

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I don’t hold to biblical inspiration, so I don’t buy that.

Lord Of The Forest said:

Take your complaints to God, and perhaps He will give you your answer.

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Jesus teachings trump the context-specific situations Paul was in. You can see the slight differences Jesus and Paul had. Jesus didn’t have any kind of purity teaching, because He said that God cares about how we treat people, not religious ceremonies (Mark 12:28-34). Paul says the same (Gal. 5:14), but you can see some of his old Phariseeism creeping through when he says some of the things he does in 1 Corinthians. I'm not condemning Paul for this though. People often have a hard time letting go of past beliefs; Paul is no different. He probably didn't realize what he was doing.

lafillecherie said:

I'd be *very* careful with that line of thinking. No one, not even the most righteous man (save for Christ of course) is entirely lawful. Everyone sins.


8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. - 1 John 1

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Have being the operable word. All have (past-tense) sinned; but some stop. While others carry on.

twnsrkr said:

Have being the operable word. All have (past-tense) sinned; but some stop. While others carry on.

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read the first sentence of that passage and take careful note of the present tense usage of the verb, "have".

If you say you have no sin, you're a liar. Scripture couldn't be any clearer than that.

twnsrkr said:

Have being the operable word. All have (past-tense) sinned; but some stop. While others carry on.

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I agree! We are supposed to put off our old man and his deeds, and put on the new....people should be able to see Jesus through our lives.

If this were like 10 years ago I would answer "No, I'd end our friendship".

BUT... overtime I've grown to realize that no one is perfect or above sin. If I cut people off on the count of fornication I guess that should mean I shouldn't speak to some of my siblings,cousins, aunts and uncles, right?

Whether or not someone is having sex is not really my business. People know right and wrong and make a choice each day.

Fornication is just one of many sins that we as human beings commit. It's life...

*BTW: I'm not condoning sin, I'm just saying that we are all sinners. No one is above someone else to this respect.

twnsrkr said:

Have being the operable word. All have (past-tense) sinned; but some stop. While others carry on.

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Umm . . .

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am [present tense] foremost of all. (1Ti 1:15 NASB)

GQ Chris said:

I would say so. But then later on he probably went ahead and did what he wanted to do without you and your friend knowing.

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No.. that wasn't possible.

I think I should start only hanging around people who are fornicating regularly. If no other Christians are around to love them and support them, I can't imagine why they would want to repent and come back to Christ. Then again, I already do that with the LGBT community so I guess I'm swimming against the wave already.

Apollo Celestio said:

Earlier this year before my De-conversion..someone I know was planning on having an "adulterous" relationship with a married woman. Me and a friend confronted him about it and stopped it before it begun because we didn't want him to willingly fall. Did we do the right thing?

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I think you did.

Fornication is one thing. Adultery is a whole other kettle of fish. Your friend is playing with fire - he is both putting his physical self in danger from a jealous husband and is spiritually bankrupting himself and reducing himself to, as Proverbs puts it - a loaf of bread - her loaf - to be consumed and excreted out.

Edit: This is why I differentiated between the sins as I did in an earlier post. I think there is a difference between a couple who has not made a formal commitment but is having sex and people who engage in sex without any hint or desire for a relationship - and then another difference when it is adultery. In the latter two cases - I do tend to distance myself from them a bit, simply because I don't want to adopt their attitude. Again, that's a given if they are proud or unrepentant.

I think many people are missing the point in this topic. They think we mean that you should not care about that person anymore. That is not the opinion anyone is making. Of course we will care about them. Of course we will still love them. Even we will still talk to them. Breaking the fellowship is only done if it is something the person does not want to change. This is not something you do to the person that is not Christian, this is something to do to the person who is Christian, and only if every attempt you make to help them is failed again and again. Even then you keep the relationship open and talk to them, just you also keep some distance to show you reject their choice to do sinful thing without regret.

Jesus kept his friendship with people that want to change their life. He did not keep close friendship with people that do not want to change. The people he spent time with knew they are living in sin. The Pharisees believed their lives are perfect and they did nothing wrong. Did Jesus still meet with them and talk with them? Yes he did, frequently. But their talking was always the same. He tried to show their wrong thinking and teaching them. Did he ever become close friends to them? He never did unless they changed their ways.

shinkou said:

Do you know how many times I hear non-Christian say "Christian is a hypocrite? They do these wrong things? How can they claim to believe like that and do those wrong things? How can they say I need to change my life if they do the same things?"

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Probably not as many times as I hear people call Christians hypocrites for treating others poorly for their sin, while we are still sinners ourselves.

I have to wonder why Christians act as though this principle should only be considered in the context of sex (other than the widespread and deep-rooted sexual guilt that unfortunately exists among Western believers). Why are we not to break fellowship with those who commit other kinds of sins? After all, sin is sin to God. An unrepentant promiscuous person is no more or less a sinner than an unrepentant gossip, or liar, or abuser, or - I dare say - an unrepentant judger.

The answer to the question is that Paul was calling for a very specific action in a very specific cultural context, which may apply sometimes and in some places today, but certainly does not necessarily apply in all instances of promiscuity when committed by Christians. And I have in fact seen Christians who refused to let go of their sins be won over by the steadfast refusal of other Christians to break fellowship with them. In fact, I've been one.

MacFall said:

Probably not as many times as I hear people call Christians hypocrites for treating others poorly for their sin, while we are still sinners ourselves.

I have to wonder why Christians act as though this principle should only be considered in the context of sex (other than the widespread and deep-rooted sexual guilt that unfortunately exists among Western believers). Why are we not to break fellowship with those who commit other kinds of sins? After all, sin is sin to God. An unrepentant promiscuous person is no more or less a sinner than an unrepentant gossip, or liar, or abuser, or - I dare say - an unrepentant judger.

The answer to the question is that Paul was calling for a very specific action in a very specific cultural context, which may apply sometimes and in some places today, but certainly does not necessarily apply in all instances of promiscuity when committed by Christians. And I have in fact seen Christians who refused to let go of their sins be won over by the steadfast refusal of other Christians to break fellowship with them. In fact, I've been one.

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The verse actually does mention other sins as well. The person that made this question for some reason decided to ignore the other sins listed in the passage. The truth is I probably would break fellowship with anyone that committed any sins without any regret and I was aware of it. However, like I said in here before. This is an extreme end. Only if the person continuously refuses to change their ways after trying to help them with their problem, and if they do not see what they are doing is wrong. I think that is the most important part. They have to truly believe their acting is not sin before I will break fellowship with them. That does not mean that I will completely abandon that person. Just that I will change my way of interacting with them and not be so close friends as before.

Besides I find it very unpleasant to be close friends with people that always tell a lie or always do gossip. I think most people do. Does that mean I hate them? No, but I certainly won't be close to them as I cannot trust them. I may still try to help them, but we will not have a close friendship.

Yes the bible does warn about judging. However it does give some clear information about the proper ways to judge people. I hope that people follow those things. The Bible calls us to be accountable to each other. It is strange so many people here think we cannot be accountable to each other because that is judging and it is wrong. As I said before if the bible is clear something is wrong, then I will talk to the unrepentant person if I feel that is the right thing to do. Most times I do not judge people. Even my friends will often call me naive because my usual way is to think, that person made a mistake, they do not normally do like that, or they did not mean to offend or hurt someone. They did not intend to do the wrong thing. I like to believe people want to be good and do the right things. They really have to show strong belief they are doing no wrong things and they really have to show they do not want to change before I would break that fellowship with them.

I really think there is a very big difference about someone making some mistake and doing some same sin again and again and someone that just doesn't believe their action is a sin and claims they are following God's way.

If you met a pastor that continuously taught that it is OK to have pre-martial sex, or that it is OK to ban mixed race couples, or that it is OK to lie or gossip. Will you keep going to their church because you need to show them love? I think probably you would leave that church and the members that agree with the pastor and go to another church. That is what the bible is telling us to do in this passage. That is what those of us that agree with this passage are saying we would do.

Kev, I think you genuinely have a good heart mate and you seem like you want to win people to the Lord...but there are times when you say enough is enough.

Ultimately, and this is what I think some either do not realise or try to dismiss...or maybe simply ignore is that no matter whether we refrain our friendship or not with an individual, it is their own choices by free-will to sin. Some have hinted on here that if we refuse to fellowship with those that are openly sinning it will only make them more likely to keep on doing what they do. Sorry, but that is a load of rubbish. We all have free-will to choose what we say, think and do each day.

This can go for any sin. Gossiping, lying, stealing...etc. I understand some people have things going on in their life that is difficult. I have worked with some kids over the years with horrendous backgrounds. Children that have been abused, abandoned, neglected etc...but while we should be mindful of these things and understand where they are coming from, at the end of the day sin is sin. It is what nailed Christ to the cross. We can all go on about "loving others" etc and that is good in it's place. What I would do is just go and ask any addictions ministry that deals with people like that and ask them for their take on it. They will tell you not to keep fellowship with them but always provide the opportunity for them to come in repentance so that they may get help.

I recall being involved with an incident in work where one student stabbed another through the chest. I went in to see all of the fuss and found a student lying on the nurses table with a stab wound through the chest and blood pouring everywhere. Apparantly, the other pupil was about to stab him through the head with the kitchen knife until another individual pulled him off. To cut a long story short...the boy survived by the skin of his teeth. I thought I saw him die...literally on the table but he made it through an operation and recovered. Afterwards the school made me go for counselling (I didn't need it but there you go lol)...I knew what was coming. The first thing the guy said to me was that I shouldn't try and judge this student because of his background.I didn't bother wasting my time on the 2nd session lol...

It doesn't matter to me what the person has done...and I think a lot of people on here have said this many times, but others have tried to twist our meaning...it doesn't matter what they have done...if that person is repentant and desires help then fine. I'll do everything in my power to help, go to counselling with them etc. If they don't then while I will let them know that the door is always open, I do not want to condone such behaviour by association.

kevlite2020 said:

I think I should start only hanging around people who are fornicating regularly. If no other Christians are around to love them and support them, I can't imagine why they would want to repent and come back to Christ. Then again, I already do that with the LGBT community so I guess I'm swimming against the wave already.

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