Why I Can't Accept Christ As My Personal Savior

earagun said:

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I'm was not offended... this thread is not about YOU... or I... it's about Jesus... and this is not good. Now if you would please stop...

Lindas Place said:

I'm was not offended... this thread is not about YOU... or I... it's about Jesus... and this is not good. Now if you would please stop...

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WHAT IS NOT GOOD? STOP WHAT? your husband must have pulled every hair out of his head! speak plainly and people will be able to understand the points your are trying to get across, while the gifts of the Holy Spirit are awesome I don't have the gift to read minds.

earagun said:

God has given everyone talents and abilities, the gifts I'm refering to are used in church worship and service, while teaching children has possibilities of being a gift, like all the gifts you know beyond a shadow of all doubt that what is happening when you are working in the power of the Spirit in using the gifts ITS NOT YOU!

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Absolutely, you are talking about the dramatic, outward supernatural gifts - all I'm saying is that prophecy, tongues and interpretation are not the only gifts that the Spirit gives. Yes he does work in this way, and yes it is probably quite exciting/inspiring/awesome, but he gives other gifts too.

Strong in Him said:

Absolutely, you are talking about the dramatic, outward supernatural gifts - all I'm saying is that prophecy, tongues and interpretation are not the only gifts that the Spirit gives. Yes he does work in this way, and yes it is probably quite exciting/inspiring/awesome, but he gives other gifts too.

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Yes He does! I consider my wife a gift from God, does that make her supernatural in power and application, I think God gives children as gifts, but were not talking about plain gifts that God gives us, the context of the gifts concerning 1 Corinthians 12, are Holy Spirit powered, and are designed for building up the church and edifying it, Teaching and Preaching certainly can be Holy Spirit gifts, but like I pointed out, when any specific gift is in operation the one who its operating through KNOWS WITHOUT A DOUBT WHATS GOING ON IS NOT HIS OR HER OWN DOING, If the Holy Spirit was working through a person to deliver a message or teaching in the manifestation of a Holy Spirit gift, the person who was used would never finish a message or teaching, in which this happened and say Wow I was really on fire! just as any of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are reconised, Stephen experienced this just before he was stoned. I'm sure the thought of "wow I'm a really good preacher, never entered Stephens mind, Because the presence of the Holy Spirit is so powerful when operating in any gift, no Christian would dare to say it was their own doing......no real Christian anyway. There is a big difference between having the Holy Spirit work in you in teaching and preaching, than a gift of manifestation as we see in 1 Corinthians 12. all Christians have the Holy Spirit working in their lives helping them in their jobs, and ministries, this is not the context of the specific gifts, to lump it all together is complete error

Lindas Place said:

I'm done with your nonsense...

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Why you are taking offense to what earagun said, I have no clue. I read through his responses, and they seem fine to me.

You need to just chill out and not be so easily offended. You DO realize that being angry without cause is sinful? You also realize false accusation is also a sin, right? You said earagun was using deceit, I dont think he was, and I think you are falsely accusing him of something he's not doing.

This attitude is quite ugly, so please, reflect on what was said and realize he wasn't trying to offend you and all YOU were doing was shoving words into his mouth.

Good day.

JudgeEden said:

Why you are taking offense to what earagun said, I have no clue. I read through his responses, and they seem fine to me.

You need to just chill out and not be so easily offended. You DO realize that being angry without cause is sinful? You also realize false accusation is also a sin, right? You said earagun was using deceit, I dont think he was, and I think you are falsely accusing him of something he's not doing.

This attitude is quite ugly, so please, reflect on what was said and realize he wasn't trying to offend you and all YOU were doing was shoving words into his mouth.

Good day.

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Evidently you didn’t read it as you claim… because I told him, I’m not offended… so your first sentence was wrong… and it really doesn’t matter to me what you think… I can stop conversing with someone if I wish to… and whining about it won’t change anything…

earagun said:

I think God gives children as gifts, but were not talking about plain gifts that God gives us, the context of the gifts concerning 1 Corinthians 12, are Holy Spirit powered, and are designed for building up the church and edifying it,

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But as I said in my first post to you on this, 1 Cor 12 is not the only place where gifts of the Spirit are listed - he's not limited to the gifts that are on that list. The original discussion, which admittedly was with another forummer, seemed to imply that teaching children is not a gift of the Holy Spirit because it's not listed in 1 Cor 12, and is just a gift which thisa lady has; there seemed to be some differentiation between "plain" gifts of the Spirit, maybe described as natural god given talents, and "supernatural" gifts of the Spirit, eg tongues and interpretation, which are noticeably from God and cannot be mistaken for something we do ourselves.

I was just pointing out that both these kinds of gift are from God and given by the Spirit, as well as a number of others. Teaching is listed in 1 Cor 12 as a Spiritual gift - so if someone has a gift and passion for teaching children - who are also the church and its future - as well as being the next generation, and has a passion for them, their well being and salvation, then I think that this is a gift which God has given, and he gives all gifts through his Spirit. I also pointed out that administration is listed in 1 Cor 12, so it's not all about the dramatic and "supernatural".

earagun said:

If the Holy Spirit was working through a person to deliver a message or teaching in the manifestation of a Holy Spirit gift, the person who was used would never finish a message or teaching, in which this happened and say Wow I was really on fire!

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I don't agree. I believe the Holy Spirit can inspire someone as they are writing a sermon, lecture or book and when it has been written and delivered, the person has a real sense of awe and wonder that God inspired it, was in it and will use it for his glory.

What you're saying sounds a bit like the way I used to think - that if someone's preaching was truly from God and hie had given them a gift for it, then they should be able to open their mouths and just speak out a beautifully constructed sermon with no prior preparation or knowledge of what they were going to say. I'm sure the Lord can work that way on occasions, but I don't believe it's the norm. A person can spend several hours praying about, researching and writing a sermon and have everything that they want to say written down. That doesn't make it any less a gift from the Spirit, or mean that God won't use it to reach out to, touch and challenge people. The guy who wrote the sermon that was later given the title "sinners in the hands of an angry God" not only wrote it down, but apparently read it - word for word - holding his notes right in front of his nose. He seems to have broken almost every rule on preaching there is. But God was working so powerfully that day that people were reportedly holding on to the backs of their pews incase they slid into hell.

earagun said:

Stephen experienced this just before he was stoned. I'm sure the thought of "wow I'm a really good preacher, never entered Stephens mind, Because the presence of the Holy Spirit is so powerful when operating in any gift, no Christian would dare to say it was their own doing......no real Christian anyway.

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And yet God chooses to use us and allows us the privilege of working with him. The inspiration, power and annointing is from God; the gift is from God. But he uses our words and voices to deliver them. He gave us minds to think, question, reason and hands to write down the things he shows us. Like the Bible. God did not dictate the Gospels to the 4 writers, they have different styles, were writing to different people and include different incidents from Jesus' life, or put them in a different order. Matthew was writing for Jews and includes many OT prophecies, Luke was a doctor and historian and wrote for, or was sympathetic to, Gentiles and women, and John was a theologian. They would certainly say their writing and inspiration was of God, yet it is still the Gospel OF, or according to, Matthew, John etc.

And it's not wrong to write a sermon or a book and feel proud of it - even while giving thanks and praise to God for his gift and inspiration.

earagun said:

There is a big difference between having the Holy Spirit work in you in teaching and preaching, than a gift of manifestation as we see in 1 Corinthians 12. all Christians have the Holy Spirit working in their lives helping them in their jobs, and ministries, this is not the context of the specific gifts, to lump it all together is complete error

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How can it be when all gifts, and indeed everything that we are and have, are given by the Holy Spirit? When the Spirit was present at our physical creation and is the breath of life in us (Hebrew, Ruach, meaning breath and Spirit), and is responsible for our new birth and life as Christians?
Are you saying that only the things that are listed in 1 Cor 12 are specific gifts from him? Or that something is only from God if it is supernatural? Because if so, that's what is wrong.

There are many gifts listed in the Bible. God gave people the ability to create, because he does, and we are made in his image. Moses told the Israelites that Bezalel was "filled with the Spirit of God and with skill, ability and knowledge of all kinds of crafts" (Exodus 35:30-31). David was a musician, played the harp for Saul and wrote Psalms to God. They, and others, used the gifts God had given them to build his tabernacle, and later the temple, and write and sing songs of worship.
Are you saying that these gifts were given by God yet somehow are not gifts of the Spirit?

To limit the gifts of the Spirit to those only listed in 1 Cor 12 is, I think, to do him a disservice and means that you may either miss out or believe that those who don't have one of these have not been given a gift by the Holy Spirit.

Strong in Him said:

But as I said in my first post to you on this, 1 Cor 12 is not the only place where gifts of the Spirit are listed - he's not limited to the gifts that are on that list. The original discussion, which admittedly was with another forummer, seemed to imply that teaching children is not a gift of the Holy Spirit because it's not listed in 1 Cor 12, and is just a gift which thisa lady has; there seemed to be some differentiation between "plain" gifts of the Spirit, maybe described as natural god given talents, and "supernatural" gifts of the Spirit, eg tongues and interpretation, which are noticeably from God and cannot be mistaken for something we do ourselves.

I was just pointing out that both these kinds of gift are from God and given by the Spirit, as well as a number of others. Teaching is listed in 1 Cor 12 as a Spiritual gift - so if someone has a gift and passion for teaching children - who are also the church and its future - as well as being the next generation, and has a passion for them, their well being and salvation, then I think that this is a gift which God has given, and he gives all gifts through his Spirit. I also pointed out that administration is listed in 1 Cor 12, so it's not all about the dramatic and "supernatural".



I don't agree. I believe the Holy Spirit can inspire someone as they are writing a sermon, lecture or book and when it has been written and delivered, the person has a real sense of awe and wonder that God inspired it, was in it and will use it for his glory.

What you're saying sounds a bit like the way I used to think - that if someone's preaching was truly from God and hie had given them a gift for it, then they should be able to open their mouths and just speak out a beautifully constructed sermon with no prior preparation or knowledge of what they were going to say. I'm sure the Lord can work that way on occasions, but I don't believe it's the norm. A person can spend several hours praying about, researching and writing a sermon and have everything that they want to say written down. That doesn't make it any less a gift from the Spirit, or mean that God won't use it to reach out to, touch and challenge people. The guy who wrote the sermon that was later given the title "sinners in the hands of an angry God" not only wrote it down, but apparently read it - word for word - holding his notes right in front of his nose. He seems to have broken almost every rule on preaching there is. But God was working so powerfully that day that people were reportedly holding on to the backs of their pews incase they slid into hell.



And yet God chooses to use us and allows us the privilege of working with him. The inspiration, power and annointing is from God; the gift is from God. But he uses our words and voices to deliver them. He gave us minds to think, question, reason and hands to write down the things he shows us. Like the Bible. God did not dictate the Gospels to the 4 writers, they have different styles, were writing to different people and include different incidents from Jesus' life, or put them in a different order. Matthew was writing for Jews and includes many OT prophecies, Luke was a doctor and historian and wrote for, or was sympathetic to, Gentiles and women, and John was a theologian. They would certainly say their writing and inspiration was of God, yet it is still the Gospel OF, or according to, Matthew, John etc.

And it's not wrong to write a sermon or a book and feel proud of it - even while giving thanks and praise to God for his gift and inspiration.



How can it be when all gifts, and indeed everything that we are and have, are given by the Holy Spirit? When the Spirit was present at our physical creation and is the breath of life in us (Hebrew, Ruach, meaning breath and Spirit), and is responsible for our new birth and life as Christians?
Are you saying that only the things that are listed in 1 Cor 12 are specific gifts from him? Or that something is only from God if it is supernatural? Because if so, that's what is wrong.

There are many gifts listed in the Bible. God gave people the ability to create, because he does, and we are made in his image. Moses told the Israelites that Bezalel was "filled with the Spirit of God and with skill, ability and knowledge of all kinds of crafts" (Exodus 35:30-31). David was a musician, played the harp for Saul and wrote Psalms to God. They, and others, used the gifts God had given them to build his tabernacle, and later the temple, and write and sing songs of worship.
Are you saying that these gifts were given by God yet somehow are not gifts of the Spirit?

To limit the gifts of the Spirit to those only listed in 1 Cor 12 is, I think, to do him a disservice and means that you may either miss out or believe that those who don't have one of these have not been given a gift by the Holy Spirit.

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there are gifts from God, and there is a manifested Holy Spirit gift of God. when a prophet speaks in the power and Spirit of God, he doesn't prepare notes, the words he speaks are not his own, in all the manifested gifts the one who they are working through is very apparent whats happening. It is not like the Holy Spirit simply guiding us and helping us. I probably won't get you to understand this unless you have personally had a manifestation of the Holy Spirit do a work through you, One could never acknowledge what happens to be of their own power or ability

Lindas Place said:

Evidently you didn’t read it as you claim… because I told him, I’m not offended… so your first sentence was wrong… and it really doesn’t matter to me what you think… I can stop conversing with someone if I wish to… and whining about it won’t change anything…

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then if your not offended why are you acting like you are?

earagun said:

there are gifts from God, and there is a manifested Holy Spirit gift of God. when a prophet speaks in the power and Spirit of God, he doesn't prepare notes, the words he speaks are not his own, in all the manifested gifts the one who they are working through is very apparent whats happening.

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Yes I know what prophecy is. I know that, very often, the prophet has a message from the Lord, (although someone can inadvertently be speaking out their own desires or thoughts; it does happen.) And I have read testimonies from people who have given such a message, not knowing what they were going to say until they said it. This happens - I believe it; it's not a problem. Similarly with tongues and interpretation. God sometimes moves in powerful, direct, amazing ways.

What I am saying is that this is not the only way he acts; that this is not the only gift that the Spirit gives, and is no more special than any other. Prophecy is a gift of the Spirit, yes, absolutely agree. Teaching is too. It is different to prophecy, not as "supernatural", it requires study, taking and using notes, powerpoint or whatever, but it is nevertheless a gift of the Spirit.

earagun said:

I probably won't get you to understand this unless you have personally had a manifestation of the Holy Spirit do a work through you, One could never acknowledge what happens to be of their own power or ability

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I get what you're saying; I'm not sure you get what I'm saying. Or if you do, you either don't accept it or are trying to ignore it.

There are many gifts of the Spirit listed in Scripture; prophecy is one of them. Yes it probably does seem more exciting and dramatic - a direct revelation from God usually is and beats hours of study. But teaching, serving, administration, evangelism etc are all gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit. It is the giver who is important and to be praised and glorified. All the gifts which he graciously chooses to give are special, to be valued, appreciated and received with thanks - none is more special than another.

So going back to the situation which prompted this - teaching children is a gift, and calling, from God.

Guy's.. Remember that God's plan was for all humanity to be saved.

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Acts 26:18

And to accomplish those ends he made salvation something easy enough where even a little child could receive it.

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:31

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

So quit making salvation so difficult a thing to lay hold of.

bbc tv news said:

Nonsense. ONLY THE PRE ELECTED ARE SAVED
If you are not a calvinist you are not saved.

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It's not the subject of this thread so I shouldn't try to divert it, but I don't agree.

I can't accept the notion of a God who sits in heaven saying, "now this one whom I created in my image, I'll save;that one who is also created in my image, I'll condemn and never allow him to know me."

bbc tv news said:

Don't believe me. OK, pop over to the 'General Theology - Soteriology' board and view Jim's (aka nobdysfool) posts.

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Doesn't matter what anyone else says, only God.

bbc tv news said:

Only Calvinists, the predestined elect of God are save. All others will rot.

This is the decree of the immutable God since before the foundation of the world

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I'm not a Calvinist and I'm saved, so that idea falls flat for a start.

John Calvin... Murderer (Michael Servetus), and know-it-all... 54 years was too long for this guy to give the satanic spirit of arrogance permission to run amok in the church.

As John Calvin is of the Sardisean church age so the prophecy against him...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

Thank God there was only one Sardisean church age...

12.25 2060, Isaac Newton, and the Seven Churches - YouTube

LaSpino3 said:

Originally Posted by Eph4:26

The Bible does not support it. Every free-will post-Christian American Religion Church based theology that believes in it is taking verses out of context and giving the 'believer' the power to tell God what to do!

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DarKKar, I see your problem.

You believe God is a she. Now if He is a she, than she must be a He. And if a He is not a she, and a she is not a he, than they must be an "It."

Now if God is an "IT," than it doesn't make any difference what you believe, because "It," won't care.

These are my thoughts, what do you think?

Phil LaSpino

Eph.4:26, wrote,

"The Bible does not support it. Every free-will post-Christian American Religion Church based theology that believes in it is taking verses out of context and giving the 'believer' the power to tell God what."

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Phil replies, "Can you give us the context in which these verses are written. Just give us a few examples.

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I have no clue of what the OP is taking about, but glad someone else does......



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Eph4:26 said:

The Bible does not support it. Every free-will post-Christian American Religion Church based theology that believes in it is taking verses out of context and giving the 'believer' the power to tell God what to do!

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That is quite ok at least you had Christ preached to you, in which you chose to reject him as your saviour.

Now you have chosen to be under the JUSTICE of God. Therefore you are under the LAW!

Continue playing Russian roulette with that venture!