The Rapture Of The Church

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I've got news for you Choose Wisely. I've got gigantic news! The things you see happening in the Middle East have NOTHING to do with God's end time prophecies. NOTHING! Get that through your head. It is the Devil's COUNTERFEIT prophecy to turn the eyes of men AWAY from the Pope of Rome and the United States.

The Sea Beast of Revelation 13 IS the Papacy.

The Lamb-Like Beast coming up out of the earth IS the United States of America.

.

No, the Sea Beast is not the Papacy. Mystery Babylon is the Vatican which sits on 7 hills and dresses in purple and scarlet, having a cup of gold full of the blood of martyrs.

The beast out of the sea has 7 heads.....five that were fallen before Johns day, one that was in Johns day and one that was yet to come. And then there will be a eighth king and he will be one of the seven. My guess is you don't know which one of the 7 the eighth king is.

The Lamb beast is not the united states. The lamb beast will be a man.
 
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Choose Wisely - you are doing a beautiful job - keep it up - following right along with you.


Thank you. Not many can follow along, and yet all we need to follow is what God says........exactly. We don't need to spiritualize or make things up to fit. If God says it....it's going to happen whether we understand it or not.
 
Upvote 0

Lysimachus

Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
Dec 21, 2010
1,762
41
✟9,605.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
Lysimachus;59149237]


That is a very dangerous thing to say.

God said that Israel would be restored..........And Israel was restored........just like it says.

Conditional:

Israel will be restored, IF they heed the Lord's instructions.

Unconditional:

There will be a TRUE Israel restored--and it is up to anyone to become a part of that Israel of God. The question is, who will be the vinedressers to tend the Vineyard? According to this study that I put together, it will be the Gentiles who are the Vinedressers (or Husbandmen) that tend the Vineyard, which is the House of Israel:

The Israel of God and the False Charge of "Replacement Theology"

This, is, unconditional.

This article in the link above goes along well with another one I wrote, entitled:

The Antitypical Fulfillment of Old Testament Typology Concerning Ancient Israel: Conditional Types of Unconditional Antitypes

What really happened:

National Israel failed to live up to its covenant promises to the Lord. The Lord did not break its covenant with Israel, but the national establishment of Israel broke its covenant with God, rejecting the Messiah and crucifying Him afresh. (Heb. 6:6)

The central concern with the interpretation that national Israel will be restored, regardless of their decisions, is the failure to recognize that God’s promises to the national state of Israel were conditional. It is also a failure to recognize that God’s promises have had A, B, and C backup plans depending on faithfulness to Him.

“Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, IF ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, THEN ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.” (Exodus 19:3-6)​

See also: Duet. 28: 1, 2, 9, 13, 15, 58; 1 Kings 2: 4; Jer. 17: 24-27; Ezek. 43: 7-11; Zech. 6: 15.

Notice the words “if” and “then.” God said that “if” Israel obeyed, “then” they would be His peculiar treasure. That tiny word “if” involves a big issue. That word has to do with conditions. God loved Israel, He chose them apart from any obedience in their part. He brought them out of Egypt, bore them on eagle’s wings, and brought them to Himself. Yet, contrary to popular opinion, God’s use of the word “if” made it clear that the continuation of His favor to the Israelites was conditional upon their response to His goodness, upon their choices to obey. In other words, the members of the chosen nation must themselves choose correctly, or the consequences would be disastrous!

Forty years later, Israel entered the Promised Land and remained their for about 800 years. During this period, many responded to God’s love by obeying His voice. But the majority strayed from the path of righteousness. Again and again, God manifested His mercy by raising up prophets and pleading with Israel to return to the covenant. Yet apostasy continued and deepened. Finally, after hundreds of years of warning, disaster struck. In 722 B.C., the northern tribes were carried away by the cruel Assyrians. In 586 B.C., Judah was taken to Babylon. Such was the result of wrong choices.

In 586 B.C., the armies of Babylon demolished Jerusalem and burned the temple with fire. The Jews were removed from their land and carried into captivity. Yet, in the mercy of God, this exile was not to be permanent. The prophet Jeremiah predicted that God “would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.” (Daniel 9:2). After 70 years the Jews would leave Babylon, return to their land, and rebuild their temple and their city. God had decided to give His chosen nation another chance to respond to His love. In simple terms, the Lord was saying: “You blew it, Let’s try again!” This second chance had to do with the 70 weeks.

Dispensationalists try to accuse Historicists of God not really meaning what He says. But this is a diversionary tactic to avoid the real issues that are involved pertaining to these promises.

The question we should be really asking is: Does God ever break a promise or covenant with anyone? Or is it the people that choose to break covenants with God? Quite frequently we find the conditional element of the word “IF” and “THEN” associated with God’s promises to Israel. You will find numerous phrases scattered throughout the Old Testament such as “If ye hearken unto me, THEN….I will….”, which clearly demonstrate that all God’s promises are conditional based on Israel’s faithfulness to Him. This becomes embarrassingly simple logic that Dispensationalists have chosen to ignore.

One of the strongest examples can be found in 1 Kings chapter 9:

“And IF thou wilt . . . do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments: Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever … But IF ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or YOUR CHILDREN, and will not keep my commandments … Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people.” (1 Kings 9:4-7)​

We see here how the conditions to these promises are clearly laid.

I ask the question, do dispensationalists really grasp the deep implications involved with these conditions? Or are they going to conclude that God’s conditions really don’t mean conditions? I propose that when the Lord establishes conditions for promises to be fulfilled, he means just what he says! And God has NEVER changed his conditions. God has always placed before all mankind the options of life or death. To have it any other way is to excuse the sins of national Israel, calling evil good and good evil, and making light of Israel’s rejection of the Son of God.

The verses cited cast but a small glimpse on the example of conditional promises given to Israel in the Old Testament. But there are many more. In Jeremiah 18:6-10, we see God addressing Israel and then comparing it to any nation that will repent or do evil in His sight. In Deuteronomy 7:8-12, we see Moses instructing the Children of Israel that if they would keep the commandments, the Lord would keep unto them the covenant which he swore unto their fathers! And on the other hand, continuing in Deuteronomy 8:1, 19 and 20, if they disobeyed God they would perish like the nations that they were to dispossess. This is not to mention the warnings that the land would spue them out also, as it had spued out their predecessors (Leviticus 18:26-28; 20:22).

Take specific note to the statements of the conditional nature of a great number of promises and prophecies made to the literal nation of Israel. In each case the fulfillment of the promise was conditioned on obedience: (a) their status as the chosen people, Ex. 19:5, 6; Deut. 28:9; (b) a great nation, Deut. 28:1, 7, 9, 10, 13 (compare verses 15, 25, 48); (c) a holy nation, Ex. 19:6; Deut. 28:9; (d) blessings, Deut. 7:9-14; 28:1-14 (compare verses 15-68); 30:16, 19; (e) the land, Deut. 8:1, 7-9; 30: 19, 20 (compare Lev. 18:26-28; Deut. 28:15, 64); 1 Kings 9:3, 6, 7; 1 Chron. 28:8; 2 Chron. 7:16, 19, 20; Eze. 33:24-26; 36:26-28; (f) the Davidic line of kings, 1 Kings 2:3, 4; 8:25; 9:4, 5; 1 Chron. 28:4-9; 2 Chron. 6:16; 2 Chron. 7:17-22; and (g) blessing to the nations, Eze. 36:23, 33-36; 37:23, 28.

But since the conditions laid forth were only partly met, the promises were only partially fulfilled in Hebrew history. We also see that Solomon was chosen “to be king over Israel for ever” (1 Chron 28:4), along with many more promises that his nation would prosper and stand for ever, yet after Solomon sinned against the Lord, these conditional promises were not fulfilled. After Solomon apostatized, and although he saw the folly of his ways before he died, his kingdom was divided and ten of the tribes were permanently lost to his dynasty. Now while it is true that his descendants ruled Judah as long as it lasted as a nation, the kingdom did eventually come to an end and the crown of David’s dynasty was removed “until he come whose right it is” (Ezekiel 21:27). This is referring to the divine Son of David (Matthew 21:5,9). Although Solomon and the royal line of David failed to realize and live up to the conditions of the promises laid forth, the prophecy of David’s seed meets its antitypical, unconditional fulfillment in Christ, who will yet rule over an eternal kingdom (Ps. 89:3, 4; Isa. 9:6, 7; Jer. 23:5; Luke 1:32, 33).

This concept is only appreciated once we understand that in his righteous days, and in the full glory of his reign, Solomon was a type of Christ. God had informed David that he would bear a son “who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon (margin, Peaceable), and I will give him peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be His father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.” (1 Chronicles 22:9, 10. It becomes evident the meaning of Solomon’s name—signifying peace, and that he was to build God’s “house” and was to reign over Israel “for ever.”. It was Solomon’s throne that was said to be “the throne of the Lord.” (1 Chron. 29:23) We see how Christ is the one building God’s house—the temple of the Lord (See Matthew 16:18; Zech. 6:12, 13; 1 Cor. 3:16; 2 Cor. 6:16; Ephes 2:21; 1 Tim. 3:15, etc). It was Jesus who spoke of “Solomon in all his glory,” and the Queen of Sheba coming “from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.” (Matthew 12:42)

It was also during Solomon’s reign that “he had peace on all sides round about him. And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.” (1 Kings 4:24, 25). One cannot help but notice the peaceful state of his kingdom was clearly expressed in the meaning of his name. In Psalms 72, the title heading reads: “A Psalm for Solomon.” In verses 3 and 7, notice the expressions “The mountains shall bring peace to the people…in his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.” (Psalms 72:3,7). Without doubt, these words refer to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, typified by Solomon’s peaceful kingdom which reached all the way to the borders, and to the river Euphrates (see Gen. 15:18) of the typical land promised by God. Someday, the eternal kingdom of Christ will stretch from pole to pole, and there will be “abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.”. In 1 Chronicales 22:10, God’s promise declares, “He shall be My son, and I will be his father”, and this is quoted in Hebrews 1:5 and applied to Jesus! “For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?” (Heb. 1:5). The Spirit of God had revealed to David that the promises concerned not only his son Solomon, but more particularly referred to “a greater than Solomon.” (See Acts 2:30-36).

With these principles in focus, it should be clearly evident to the discerner of God’s spiritual Word that just like Jesus Christ, the Messiah, fulfilled this conditional prophecy to Solomon antitypically, so likewise local Palistinian Israel will meet its antitype in global, worldwide Spiritual Israel under the banner of Christ. “If ye a be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heir’s according to the promise (Galatians 3:29).

(Continued…)
 
Upvote 0

Lysimachus

Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
Dec 21, 2010
1,762
41
✟9,605.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
(Continued…)

Take note to the following from Dr. Froom:

“Christian Church continues the Seed of Israel.—Jerusalem knew not the time of her visitation, and consequently her house was left to her "desolate" (Matt. 23:28), and the rejected Lord wept over her fate. Though the destruction was delayed forty years, there was no repentance to avert the nation's doom. There was no assurance, as before (Jer. 5:10, 18), that the destruction was to be only temporary. The servants who had repeatedly abused the prophets had finally crucified the Son of the Owner of the vineyard, and consequently were dispossessed. The Son Himself had pronounced sentence upon them: "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (Matt. 21: 43). Many were to come from the east and west to sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the place of the rejected children of the kingdom (Matt. 8:11, 12). These were to come from among the Gentiles and would prove themselves "Abraham's children" more truly than the Jews because they "would do the works of Abraham" (John 9:39).

When the great body of the professed seed of Abraham—the official body—rejected their King, the Mediator of the new covenant, they inevitably cut themselves off from the Messianic kingdom and the covenant relationship. The only Jews who retained these relationships were the remnant (Rom. 11:5), those who accepted their Messiah and became the nucleus of the Christian church; these were the true children of Israel. To them were added the Gentile converts, the "wild olive" branches who were grafted into the parent stock in place of the natural branches that had broken themselves off (Rom. 11:16-24).

Thus the rejection of the nation of Israel did not invalidate the prophecies or cut off the line of God's chosen people. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect" but "the children of the flesh" were replaced by "the children of the promise" (Rom. 9:6, 8)—the spiritual seed of Abraham. (Questions on Doctrine, pp. 226-227)​

Before Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C., the Lord promised them that their city would have remained forever had they remained faithful, and hallowed the Sabbath of the Lord.

Notice the promise given through Jeremiah, the Lord's prophet:

“Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction. And it shall come to pass, IF ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein; THEN shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain FOR EVER….But IF ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” (Jeremiah 17:21-25, 27)​

So the question to be asked is, did they obey the Lord and hearken unto what he said? Obviously not. Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem not long after, while Jeremiah was yet alive. Israel had just blown their first chance, and consequently the Lord allowed them to destroy themselves by breaking the covenants. But the Lord gave them another chance through the prophecy of the Prophet Daniel in chapter 9 verses 24-27. This was to be the SECOND and LAST chance for the national state of Israel. But the prophecy foretold once again what Israel would incur upon itself: “O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help;” “for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.” (Hosea 13:9; 14:1) Did God break any promises with Israel? It is quite apparent He did not, nor ever will. But Israel clearly broke the covenant with their God in their iniquity, and the consequences are not to be trifled with. Says the Lord concerning Israel, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” (Hosea 4:6).

Now we come to the meat of the subject. Did God’s promises still stand? Most certainly. We must first understand that if Israel broke the covenant, obviously, the Lord’s mercies are still granted to any who are willing to take hold of His covenant of promise. Correct?

So is it possible that the kingdom of Israel was transferred and given to another nation? If so, what nation was this? Notice the clear words of Jesus as he looked directly into the eyes of the Jewish leaders, and said:

“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”- Matthew 21:43​

Now compare what Jesus said above to what God called Israel in Exodus 19:5, 6: "Now therefore, IF ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an HOLY nation.”

At this point, we clearly see that Israel was a “peculiar treasure”, a “kingdom of priests” and a “holy nation”.

But let’s not stop there! The next question to be asked is, WHO IS THIS NATION that Jesus told Israel their “kingdom” would be given to?

NOTICE what Peter wrote to the GENTILE CHURCH:

“Peter, an apostle of Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia….” , “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” ~ 1 Peter 1:1; 2:9,10​

Did you just catch that? Who was the nation chosen for the Kingdom of Israel to be transferred to? TO THE CHURCH! To the Gentile strangers scattered throughout different regions, they were now called a “peculiar people”, a “royal priesthood”, and a “holy nation”, of which the “kingdom” (Israel) Christ spoke of would be given to!

We are the “ISRAEL OF GOD” spoken in Galatians 6:16! How is it that modern prophecy teachers are missing this glaring evidence from the sacred Writ? The Israel of God is composed of both “Jews AND Gentiles!”. The wall of partition between Jew and Gentile has come crashing to the ground by the blood of Christ at the cross. We are now “one body” in Christ Jesus, not two bodies! (Ephesians 2:12-16; 3:6)

It becomes ever so clear that the Church is Modern Israel of the spirit, and that the nation of Israel was God’s Church of Old that broke the everlasting covenant, therefore making themselves “Israel after the flesh” (1 Corinthians 10:18 ) . As the Holy Spirit fell upon Stephen, the LAST prophet sent by God to the nation of Israel, he retraced the entire history of his people to the Jewish leaders in one sweep shortly before they stoned him to death, and committed their final sin.

“This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt.” ~ Acts 7:37-39​

Dispensationalists will try to argue and say that the Greek word “Church” by Stephen is to be interpreted as “congregation” as understood in the Septuagint as a translation from the Hebrew word qahal, deriving these arguments from John Wolvoord and Fruchtenbaum, and try to convince us that the term “ekklesia” was also used in Acts 19:39 to refer to the assembly of pagans. But this becomes nothing more than a feeble argument when considering that every word for “Church” is “ekklesia” in the Greek, and everyone of them can be translated as “congregation” if one really wanted to. The fact is, God was dealing with his congregation in the wilderness, and because they failed to hold true to their promises to God’s eternal covenant, God transferred His blessings to a new congregation—the new congregation to be built up by the Apostles, the Church! Stephen was well aware of Christ’s past usage of the word “ekklesia” in Matthew 16:18. I’m simply not impressed with the sort of semantic jugglery being done to the simple understanding of the context of the texts. In Acts 7:38, national Israel was still clearly considered God’s chosen people. Additionally, it should be noted that when Luke wrote the book of Acts, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit impressed him to utilize that Greek word “ekklesia” to translate Stephen’s final speech to the Sanhedrin. Luke was very well aware that God’s congregation was now realized in the Church for which Christ came to establish through His 12 apostles. For a complete and sound exegesis refuting the “ekklesia” argument put forth by Dispensationalists, please visit Bob Pickle’s analysis entitled: The Word “Church” in the Old Testament which includes page 2. It should be noted that in the Greek, the word “ekklesia” literally means “the ones called out”. This definition is rightly fitting to Israel who was “called out of Egypt”, and which typifies New Testament Christians who are called out of sin and Babylon.

(Continued...)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Lysimachus

Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
Dec 21, 2010
1,762
41
✟9,605.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
Lysimachus;59149237]
Lets see what God had to say about Israel.

In Ezekiel 4:3-6 God says he has appointed a day for a year and says to lay on the left side 390 days and on the right side 40 days. That totals 430 years. Daniel was taken into captivity in 606 BC and the Jews were allowed to return to the land from Babylon in 536 BC after Cyrus the Great walked into the city of Babylon in 539 BC. (Notice Cyrus did not come with the sword and destroy Babylon.)

If we take the 430 prophesied years and reduce it by the 70 years the Jews were in captivity we get 360 years. But only a few Jews returned to the land as instructed. God says in Leviticus 26:18 that if they do not obey He would punish them 7 times more for their sins.

7 times 360 years is 2520 years. Now convert those Biblical years (360days/yr) to our current year of 365.242 day/yr and we get 2483.8 years.

Starting at the year 536 BC when the Jews were instructed to return to the land and count off the 2583.8 years (be sure to realize there is not a year zero when converting BC to AD)

You will arrive at the year 1948. And if you do a little digging and get specific you will find out you will come out to May 15th, 1948.

God will do exactly what he says he will do and use who he chooses to complete his will.

I suggest you start listening exactly to what God has to say.

William Miller actually came to a similar error as you. However, he terminated the 2520 in the year 1844, commencing it in 677 B.C. Sound exegetical data lends a 677 B.C. starting date far more relevance than 536 B.C., since that is when the last of the ten tribes were carried away and Israel ceased to be a nation. You are free to view some charts and exegesis here, here, and here, etc.

So assuming you were right in your interpretation that the "seven times" of Leviticus 26:18 is based on the year-day principle, your starting date is questionable at best, and we could endlessly argue over this matter.

However, I happen to be of the notion that the "seven times" of Leviticus 26:18 has absolutely NOTHING to do with time! So we will not even need to argue over the starting date. Let's just argue over whether this phrase has anything to do with time.

Uriah Smith and James White proved this theory to be hopelessly astray:

First, Uriah Smith's explanation:

THE "SEVEN TIMES" OF LEVITICUS 26

Almost every scheme of the "Plan of the Ages," "Age-to-come," etc., makes use of a supposed prophetic period called the "Seven Times;" and the attempt is made to figure out a remarkable fulfilment by events in Jewish and Gentile history. All such speculators might as well spare their pains; for there is no such prophetic period in the Bible.

The term is taken from Leviticus 26, where the Lord denounces judgments against the Jews, if they shall forsake him. After mentioning a long list of calamities down to verse 17, the Lord says: "And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins." Verse 18. Verses 19 and 20 enumerate the additional judgments, then it is added in verse 21: "And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me: I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins." More judgments are enumerated, and then in verses 23 and 24 the threatening is repeated: "And if ye will not be reformed by me these things, but will walk contrary unto me; then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins." In verse 28 it is repeated again.

Thus the expression occurs four times, and each succeeding mention brings to view severer punishments, because the preceding ones were not heeded. Now, if "seven times" denotes a prophetic period (2520 years), then we would have four of them, amounting in all to 10,080 years, which would be rather a long time to keep a nation under chastisement.

But we need borrow no trouble on this score; for the expression "seven times" does not denote a period of duration, but is simply an adverb expressing degree, and setting forth the severity of the judgments to be brought upon Israel.

If it denoted a period of time, a noun and its adjective would be used, as in Dan.4:16: "Let seven times pass over him." Here we have the noun (times) and adjective (seven): thus, shibah iddan); but in the passages quoted above from Leviticus 26, the words "seven times" are simply the adverb (sheba), which means "sevenfold." The Septuagint makes the same distinction, using in Dan.4:16, etc., but in Leviticus simply the adverb, .

The expression in Dan.4:16 is not prophetic, for it is used in plain, literal narration. (See verse 25.) (1897, Uriah Smith, Daniel and the Revelation, p. 784, 785, APPENDIX)​

There is much more elaboration upon this point that could be made, and much has been written about it. For an exhaustive study on this subject, see the book: Deeper: Investigativing the Integrity of Our Prophetic Foundations, pp. 139-155, by Eugene Prewitt.

The above alone should settle the matter, but for emphasis' sake, let's continue with James White's explanation:

The Review and Herald

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." BATTLE CREEK, MICH., THIRD-DAY, JANUARY 26, 1864, JAMES WHITE, EDITOR

The Seven Times of Leviticus 26:

The prophetic period of Lev. xxvi, or what has been supposed to be such, has been no small object of study among prophetical expositors. It has been supposed that the expression, "seven times," in verses 18, 21, 24, 28, denoted a prophetic period of 2520 years, and that this period covered the time during which the throne of Israel should be and remain subverted and trodden down by oppressing powers. To rightly fix the commencement and termination of this period, became therefore a matter of consequence. Where does it commence? and where does it end? have been questions of much study, and perhaps some perplexity.

These are not the questions, however, that we propose here to discuss; for there is a question lying back of these, which demands to be answered first; namely, Is there any prophetic period brought to view at all in Lev. xxvi? We claim that there is not, and will offer a few of what are to us very conclusive reasons for this position:

1. A series of judgments is threatened against Israel, in case they hearkened not unto God to do his commandments, before the expression, seven times, is introduced. Verses 14-17. In these judgments is included being slain before their enemies, being reigned over by those that hated them, and fleeing when none pursued them. Now if the seven times were meant to cover the period of God's special judgments against Israel, especially of their captivity by foreign powers, these seven times should have been mentioned in connection with the first threatening of judgments of this kind. But this, as we have seen, is not the case.

2. After the threatening of these judgments, God says, verse 18, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins." Then follows an enumeration of the judgments to come upon them in fulfillment of this, different from the items of the first threatening, and increasing in severity.

3. If they would not for this hearken, seven times more plagues were threatened against them, "according to their sins." Verse 21. Then again follows an enumeration of judgments to correspond, more severe still than any preceding.

4. If they would not be reformed by these things, God threatened to punish them seven times more for their sins. Verse 24. And in like manner with the foregoing, an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted in fulfillment, immediately follows, more fearful still.

5. And if they would not hearken to God for all these things, he makes a final threat that would walk contrary to them in fury, and chastise them seven times for their sins. Verse 28. And an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted, again immediately follows, outdoing all before, in their terrible severity. Included among them were the eating of the flesh of their sons and daughters, making waste their cities, bringing the land into such desolation that their enemies should be astonished at it, scattering them among all nations, and drawing out a sword after them in all the lands of their dispersion. With fearful minuteness all this has been fulfilled, even to the eating the flesh of their own children, as in the terrible sieges that preceded the downfall of Jerusalem.

Thus we have, first, a series of judgments threatened against Israel, without the expression, seven times, and then the declaration four times made, that God would punish them seven times for their sins, each one on condition that the former did not lead to repentance, and each one containing its own specific enumeration of judgments, distinct from those that preceded, and regularly increasing in the severity of then denunciations. Now what is meant by this repeated expression of seven times? We reply, It denotes, not the duration of the punishment, but its intensity and severity. It is well expressed in the language of verse 21, thus: "I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins." The number seven denoting perfection, we are undoubtedly to understand by this expression, the fullness of their punishment; that the measure of their national sins, would in every case be fully equaled by the measure of their national calamities.

And this position is fully sustained by the original, as a brief criticism will show.

In references to the Hebrew, we learn from the Hebrew Concordance that the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, comes from sheh-vag; and this word is expressly set down by Gesenius, in those texts, as an adverb, also in Ps. cxix, 164; Prov. xxiv, 16. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, the expression, seven times, twice occurs, where beyond question it means duration.

Nebuchadnezzar was to be driven from men, and make his dwelling with the beasts of the field, until seven times should pass over him. There can be no mistaking that here the expression means a certain space of time; but here we find, not the adverb as in Lev. xxvi, but the noun, gid-dahn, defined by Gesenius, "Time, in prophetic language, for a year." In Dan. vii, 25, where a prophetic period is brought to view in the expression, "a time and times and the dividing of time," the same word is used. In Dan. xii, 7, where the same period is again brought to view, and in about the same language, we have another word, moh-gehd, defined by Gesenius, "Appointment of time. Spoken of a space of time, appointed and definite. In the prophetic style for a year." It will be seen by this definition, that this word is synonymous with the one used in Dan. vii, 25, as above referred to. Now if a period of time is meant by the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, one of these words should and would most assuredly have been used. And the fact that neither of these words is there used, but another word, and that an adverb, places it beyond question that no such period is there intended.

The Greek is equally definite. The Septuagint has in Lev. xxvi, heptakis, which is an adverb, signifying seven times. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, for Nebuchadnezzar's seven times we have not heptakis, the adverb, but heptakairoi, a noun and its adjective. And in all cases where the word time occurs, denoting a prophetic period, as in Dan. vii, 25; xii, 7; Rev. xii, 14, it is from the noun kairos. Such a thing as a prophetic period based on an adverb is not to be found.

So then, there is no prophetic period in Lev. xxvi; and those who imagine that such a thing exists, and are puzzling themselves over the adjustment of its several dates, are simply beating the air. To ignore, or treat with neglect, a prophetic period where one is plainly given, is censurable in the extreme. It is an equally futile, though not so heinous, a course, to endeavor to create one where none exists. (Review and Herald, January 26, 1864, James White, Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, Vol. 23, p. 68)​

We must ultimately conclude, respectfully therefore, that the 1948 theory along with the commencing date of the 2520 year period, much less the existence of the 2520 period itself, is total bunk.

With that theory nailed in the coffin, we can proceed with your other arguments....

(Continued...)
 
Upvote 0

Lysimachus

Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
Dec 21, 2010
1,762
41
✟9,605.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
No, the Sea Beast is not the Papacy. Mystery Babylon is the Vatican which sits on 7 hills and dresses in purple and scarlet, having a cup of gold full of the blood of martyrs.

The beast out of the sea has 7 heads.....five that were fallen before Johns day, one that was in Johns day and one that was yet to come. And then there will be a eighth king and he will be one of the seven. My guess is you don't know which one of the 7 the eighth king is.

There is really no need to take out a considerable amount of time to debunk this, as numerous articles and book shave already established my points. So I will link you just a couple articles.

But before I do, let me point out your outrageous inconsistency, in how you are willing to apply the year-day principle to the 7 times of Leviticus 26, yet completely ignore the year-day principle to the time, times, half a time, 1260 days, 42 months of Revelation 11, 12, and 13.

If the 42 months represent 1260 years, that history already demonstrates that the Papacy must be the beast that is being spoken of, as no other power in history meets such a fulfillment. No other empire has existed past 700 years. The Papacy, however, meets precise fulfillment from the year 538 A.D. to the year 1798 A.D. I have demonstrated this well in this article I wrote here: The 1260 Year Interpretation of Protestantism.

In the following article, I demonstrate that the Woman riding the Beast is essentially the same power as the Beast she rides:
The harlot of Babylon = Papal Rome - but not Antichrist??.

The Beast portion represents the Political aspects of the Papacy, while the Woman riding the beast represents the Ecclesiastical aspects. But the Beast and the Woman combined is one solid "Antichrist force"--a single unit with two characteristics to it.

Read these articles thoroughly if you want a comprehensive analysis of these topics.

And finally, concerning the 7 heads and the 8th head, there are several interpretations--which I believe to have at least dual, if not triple applications.

Satan's Impersonation of Christ Predicted? Revelation 17 Expounded

Some have also interpreted the 7 heads to represent:

1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Persia
5. Greece
6. Pagan Rome (one is)
7. Papal Rome
8. Restored Papal Rome

But a more reasonable explanation is such:

1. Babylon
2. Persia
3. Greece
4. Pagan Rome
5. Papal Rome
6. Wounded Papal Rome (angel's point of reference - "one is")
7. Restored Papal Rome (short time)
8. Satan himself that is controlling the Beast.

The reason why the Papal Beast has 7 heads and is part lion, bear, and leopard, is because it has inherited all the characteristics of pagan religion from the previous pagan kingdoms into its ideologies--as evidenced in Papal symbols everywhere.

One cannot be 100% dogmatic, as there are several applications that fit.

The Lamb beast is not the united states. The lamb beast will be a man.

And a man is not a symbol of a beast? What about when Daniel said "THOU art this head of GOLD. And AFTER thee shall arise ANOTHER KINGDOM" (Dan. 2:38,39)? While the gold head on the statue represented the kingdom of Babylon, Daniel percpiciously connected the symbolism that there is a man at the head of the kingdom, as the man is the REPRESENTATIVE of the kingdom.

Do not make mockery of God's word. Scripture with Scripture clearly identifies that a beast represents a "kingdom": "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth" (Dan. 7:23)

A beast represents a kingdom. A man is also a symbol of a kingdom.

Here is the proof, in this article that I wrote:
Antichrist Beast Power - Exclusively a Single Man?

Take time to read this. They are based on the Word of God with SOUND exegesis. They are based on UNSHAKEN Divine hermeneutical rules that have withstood the test of time.

The Lamb-Like Beast represents the United States of America, that came up out of the "earth", a lowly populated area. The Sea Beast came up out of the water, which represents a highly populated area---in Italy---peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

The United States and the Papacy are the two powers that will enforce the Mark of the Beast and attack God's faithful commandment keepers in the last days.

Those who keep the Sabbath, which is contained in God's Living Seal.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Old Seer

Newbie
Oct 30, 2011
114
4
✟15,264.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
One of the most common errors made in discussing the Holy Scriptures is assuming that our interpretation of the meaning of a passage is what the passage says.

The writer of the article in the OP did this, claiming that the Bible "warns us that" and then proceeds to present his own interpretation of what it says, rather than what it says.

His argument is based on an erroneous assumption that "the day of Christ" is the day when our Lord comes to rapture the church.

I have recently posted numerous passages of scripture that would be contradictions of each other if Jesus was only coming back once. He is coming back twice, once to claim his bride, and once to judge the world.

No one is going anywhere. Air- interprets to "Spirit". They'll be caught up in the spirit etc. Earth = soul, mother earth, Eve.
 
Upvote 0

Lysimachus

Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
Dec 21, 2010
1,762
41
✟9,605.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
No one is going anywhere. Air- interprets to "Spirit". They'll be caught up in the spirit etc. Earth = soul, mother earth, Eve.

This is what I call "Augustinian Spiritualism" to its nth degree. The Catholic Church invented both Allegorism and Literalism.

We don't spiritualize away the scriptures. We employ symbols where they belong.

Scriptures are very clear that after Christ comes, the earth is left a "desolate wilderness" without "any man". (Jeremiah 4:23-28, etc. etc. etc.).

And what typology did Jeremiah use to illustrate this point? The typology when Jerusalem was LITERALLY destroyed.

The destruction of Jerusalem serves as a type of the final destruction of the world.

Those Preterist/Amillennialists who spiritualize away the "catching up"--will be overwhelmingly disappointed as the earth is dissolving around them, and they are not saved.

Those who are expecting a pre-tribulation rapture will also be overwhelmingly surprised as they are unprepared to endure through the Time of Trouble.
 
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
We must ultimately conclude, respectfully therefore, that the 1948 theory along with the commencing date of the 2520 year period, much less the existence of the 2520 period itself, is total bunk.

With that theory nailed in the coffin, we can proceed with your other arguments....


I conclude that the prophet was instructed to lay on his left side for 390 days and his right side for 40 days. I conclude these days represent 430 years.....just like it says. I conclude that the Jews were instructed to return to the land after 70 years. They did not. Therefore they would be punished 7 times more, just like it says. I conclude that if you multiply the remaining 360years x 7 and convert Biblical years to our calander and add those years to the point in time they were instructed to return to the land you will arrive at 1948........just like it says.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

trumpeter

Member
Jun 5, 2007
209
3
✟15,374.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
No, the Sea Beast is not the Papacy. Mystery Babylon is the Vatican which sits on 7 hills and dresses in purple and scarlet, having a cup of gold full of the blood of martyrs.

The beast out of the sea has 7 heads.....five that were fallen before Johns day, one that was in Johns day and one that was yet to come. And then there will be a eighth king and he will be one of the seven. My guess is you don't know which one of the 7 the eighth king is.

The Lamb beast is not the united states. The lamb beast will be a man.

Agee the Papacy is Mystery Babylon. Have you considered the lamb beast to be the Pope? The two horns are symbolic of the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. One religion headquartered in Rome and the other in Constantinople.

For many years I believed the eighth king belong to the seventh kingdom until somebody corrected me that the 8th belongs to all seven of the previous kingdoms. The 8th had been within the boundaries of all previous kingdoms.

The eighth king has to be revived from one of the five kingdoms prior to Rome.

Rev 17:11 - “The beast (Antichrist; 8th king) who once was (a kingdom), and now (is not a kingdom in John’s day), is an eighth king.”

The five kingdoms before John’s day were: Egypt, Assyria, Babyon, Medo-Persia, Greece. Which one of the five is revived or comes back to power as the eighth king?
 
Upvote 0

trumpeter

Member
Jun 5, 2007
209
3
✟15,374.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I conclude that the prophet was instructed to lay on his left side for 390 days and his right side for 40 days. I conclude these days represent 430 years

This passage (Eze 4:4-8) has a near term prophecy fulfillment for Ezekiel and a far off last days fulfillment.
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟71,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
hi trumpeter......the answer is revived greece according to daniel.....greece broke up into 4 divisions....turkey greece syria and egypt.......antichrist comes from the syrian division and conquers the 3.....turkey greece and egypt.....the rest of the 6 kingdoms (of the 10 toes) will submit to him.....thus the grecian empire will be revived by antichrist......this is the 8th beast.....is one of the 7 and goes into perdition ......

we conclude that of the 10 kingdoms to come, 4 kingdoms are revealed in scripture

1 greecian kingdom
2 syrian kingdom
3 egyptian kingdom
4 turkeys kingdom
5 ???????
6 ???????
7 ???????
8 ???????
9 ???????
10 ??????

the other 6 kingdoms are not revealed......

peace
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Agee the Papacy is Mystery Babylon. Have you considered the lamb beast to be the Pope? The two horns are symbolic of the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. One religion headquartered in Rome and the other in Constantinople.

For many years I believed the eighth king belong to the seventh kingdom until somebody corrected me that the 8th belongs to all seven of the previous kingdoms. The 8th had been within the boundaries of all previous kingdoms.

The eighth king has to be revived from one of the five kingdoms prior to Rome.

Rev 17:11 - “The beast (Antichrist; 8th king) who once was (a kingdom), and now (is not a kingdom in John’s day), is an eighth king.”

The five kingdoms before John’s day were: Egypt, Assyria, Babyon, Medo-Persia, Greece. Which one of the five is revived or comes back to power as the eighth king?

No, not a kingdom.............he is a king. The eighth king is one of the seven kings who has the wound of the sword and yet lives. And you are right he is actually part of all 7 kingdoms.

I believe that the 7th king is the lamb beast.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟71,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
hi choose wisely......the 7th king cannot be the lamb beast ....because the lamb beast is said to come after the 1st beast....if the first beast is the antichrist grecian empire revived and the 8th kingdom...then how can the lamb beast be the 7th?....peace
 
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Rev 17:11 - “The beast (Antichrist; 8th king) who once was (a kingdom), and now (is not a kingdom in John’s day), is an eighth king.”

You are right. The eighth king is the Antichrist. And he once was before Johns day and is not in Johns day and will come again.......and be the eighth king.

This eighth king.....the antichrist, is part of all 7 kingdoms.

So you need to figure out how this is possible.
 
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
hi choose wisely......the 7th king cannot be the lamb beast ....because the lamb beast is said to come after the 1st beast....if the first beast is the antichrist grecian empire revived and the 8th kingdom...then how can the lamb beast be the 7th?....peace

Right........he comes after the 1st beast.

The first beast was before Johns day.........is not in Johns day.......and will come again.......the eighth king.
 
Upvote 0

Choose Wisely

Forgiven
Supporter
Jan 7, 2011
3,427
1,424
Texas
✟106,222.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
hi choose wisely......if the first beast is the antichrist grecian empire revived and the 8th kingdom...then how can the lamb beast be the 7th?....peace

The 1st beast is not the Grecian empire revived and will not be the eighth kingdom
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟71,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
hi trumpeter......the answer is revived greece according to daniel.....greece broke up into 4 divisions....turkey greece syria and egypt.......antichrist comes from the syrian division and conquers the 3.....turkey greece and egypt.....the rest of the 6 kingdoms (of the 10 toes) will submit to him.....thus the grecian empire will be revived by antichrist......this is the 8th beast.....is one of the 7 and goes into perdition ......

we conclude that of the 10 kingdoms to come....4 kingdoms are revealed in scripture

1 greecian kingdom
2 syrian kingdom
3 egyptian kingdom
4 turkeys kingdom
5 ???????
6 ???????
7 ???????
8 ???????
9 ???????
10 ??????

peace

the first beast was the grecian empire.....and will be revived by antichrist to make the 8th.....and the lamb beast will come after him and be his prophet....peace
 
Upvote 0