Muslim Turkeys?

Better avoid that Kosher salt, too. The horror!

JustMeSee said:

Articles: Happy Halal Thanksgiving

Pamela Geller: Beware "Stealth Halal" Turkeys This Thanksgiving | Mother Jones

Oh my!

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Geller makes me giggle .. of course this is just an article length ad for the book where she goes into detail about the scandal... what's probably ACTUALLY scandalous is how much allegedly kosher and halal meat is anything BUT kosher and halal (not to mention all the disgusting practices that render most of the animal products we consume just plain horrible no matter what dietary laws we follow)

Ok, so the big difference between Halal and non-halal turkey is that some Muslim priest said a bunch of mumbo-jumbo over the turkey as it was being slaughtered? And I'm suppose to care? Does it make it taste any difference? If it makes it taste better than I'm all for it.

Hilarious article. But I think the way Halal killings make animals suffer is also pretty much disgusting.

moonkitty said:

Ok, so the big difference between Halal and non-halal turkey is that some Muslim priest said a bunch of mumbo-jumbo over the turkey as it was being slaughtered? And I'm suppose to care? Does it make it taste any difference? If it makes it taste better than I'm all for it.

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Actually there are several differences. Halal or Kosher meat exclude many additives. All save the slaughter method seem like good differences. It seems the method of slaughter is in fact more humane than traditional slaughter methods.

The issue is a possible blessing done at the time of slaughter. But it seems there are differences in what is considered Halal. Soem demang an invocation at the time of slaughter, other not, just that the name of any other God is not used. Yesterday I found a link to something from Butterball that was a listing of definitions and they use the later.

Here is a link to Halal (and Kosher) that cites the Quran. I'd say it is pretty clear, the name of Allah must be spoken over the meat, but it says nothing about when. Muslims must say grace!
http://www.zpluspartners.com/kosherhalal2.pdf

EDIT: Found the butterball glossery!
http://www.butterball.com/tips-how-tos/tips/glossary-of-cooking-terms

Lakatide said:

Hilarious article. But I think the way Halal killings make animals suffer is also pretty much disgusting.

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Couldn't say, both sides tend to argue there side is more humane but without a prior bias neither have sounded that convincing.

Though I will disagree with the first article since I've certainly heard and seen a fair few PETA pieces against Halal practices.

explodingboy said:

Couldn't say, both sides tend to argue there side is more humane but without a prior bias neither have sounded that convincing.

Though I will disagree with the first article since I've certainly heard and seen a fair few PETA pieces against Halal practices.

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I've seen and heard a fair few PETA representatives slaughtering the majority of the animals that come into their care, supporting the mass slaughter of bully breeds and having no problem with the exploitation of women so I don't give a hoot what PETA thinks. They need to donate their wealth to rescue groups that ACTUALLY rescue, provide medical care for, and provide permanent homes for animals as well as lobby for sane regulations on the care and breeding of domestic animals.

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That said, the individual slaughter of an animal in the methods that render the meat halal or kosher is probably more humane than most of the living and killing that takes place in American meat production, I doubt any mass produced meat is EVER in accordance with the requirements that an animal is healthy prior to slaughter and not slaughtered in the presence of other animals.

wanderingone said:

I've seen and heard a fair few PETA representatives slaughtering the majority of the animals that come into their care, supporting the mass slaughter of bully breeds and having no problem with the exploitation of women so I don't give a hoot what PETA thinks. They need to donate their wealth to rescue groups that ACTUALLY rescue, provide medical care for, and provide permanent homes for animals as well as lobby for sane regulations on the care and breeding of domestic animals.

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That said, the individual slaughter of an animal in the methods that render the meat halal or kosher is probably more humane than most of the living and killing that takes place in American meat production, I doubt any mass produced meat is EVER in accordance with the requirements that an animal is healthy prior to slaughter and not slaughtered in the presence of other animals.

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If anyone from PETA ever comes by my home I'll let the dogs discuss it with them. We have 2, one from the ASPCA and one From Pet Adaption Fund.

I had to lookup the later and I did not remember the exact name, when I found it on Yahoo I was shocked to read the reviews, 95% the opposite of my experience there. (The one thing that fit was the 'weakness' of not having a huge suopport staff so there is not always someone ready to wait of people right away, in fact we had to go twice as the first time the manager was at the vet with a sick dog).

Fees were low. They care about hte animals, my bet is the bad reviews are from someone rejected. One of the reviews says that all their animals have ot be inside dogs. That is clear and total BS. Bella, the dog we got is a free access dog as any per of ours will be. And we are in coyote country. But Bella is now over 100 lbs before coyotes are a danger to her they will be taking human children (and the entire pack is not a match for Bella and Wheatley). We went the there after trying other places, esp. the pound. The biggest problem is that other places were not willing to allow us to fing out if any new dog would get along with Wheatley, the dog we already had. Pet Adaption Fund was and in Fact Bella was the second dog tried. Epilog, after we had her home for a few days she had a medical problem. Pet Adaption Fund had their vet take care of it only asking us to provide transport. Since then they have also provided earwash (ear problems are pretty common fo rbloodhounds, which Bella is).

They do inspect the property, they were very reasonable about it. For us it was lightening fast, that I think is unusual, but we just happened in on a day when a senior volunteer who has a thigns about bloodhounds was there.

Or perhaps our experience was different because we are such great people! (Or perhaps a slight variation that is true, theat Wheatley thinks we are and makes it clear to all).

JustMeSee said:

Articles: Happy Halal Thanksgiving

Pamela Geller: Beware "Stealth Halal" Turkeys This Thanksgiving | Mother Jones

Oh my!

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Every time I click on a link and get American Thinker [sic], I feel like I've been Rick Rolled.

DeathMagus said:

Better avoid that Kosher salt, too. The horror!

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moonkitty said:

Ok, so the big difference between Halal and non-halal turkey is that some Muslim priest said a bunch of mumbo-jumbo over the turkey as it was being slaughtered? And I'm suppose to care? Does it make it taste any difference? If it makes it taste better than I'm all for it.

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You atheists can be pretty funny! I lolled.

And I'd like to know what in particular it is that Pamela Geller and others have against halal methods of slaughter. Because I wasn't aware that they in any way go against Christian customs.

Erth said:

You atheists can be pretty funny! I lolled.

And I'd like to know what in particular it is that Pamela Geller and others have against halal methods of slaughter. Because I wasn't aware that they in any way go against Christian customs.

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Again it depends on hte definitiomn of Halal used. Most require that the animal is slaughtered in the name of Allah. I'd assume that requires the butcher to be Muslim. I doubt Butterball would require all their butchers who slaughter turkeys to be Muslim and I doubt even more that a single week would pass without a lawsuit being fiels if they did.

Which totally convinces me that Butterball uses the minority position that the animal not be slaughtered in hte name of any other god.

Which would make those makingthe claims totally dishonest jerks.

Now IF the turkeys are in fact slaughtered in hte name of Allah I can see objections by Christians, Jews and many other groups that have a god. After all it is then in a very real sense an animal sacrificed to a false god.

Simply playing a CD with the required prayer is enough to make meat Halal. Butcher doesn't even have to be Muslim. Some Halal meat suppliers like Midamar (Midamar Corporation) require the butcher to be a Muslim, though. Kosher meat is also considered Halal by many Muslims anyway.

Erth said:

You atheists can be pretty funny! I lolled.

And I'd like to know what in particular it is that Pamela Geller and others have against halal methods of slaughter. Because I wasn't aware that they in any way go against Christian customs.

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Most slaughterhouses stun the animal before slaughtering by bashing them in the head with either a sledgehammer or shock gun. Kosher and halal butchers don't, they just cut the jugular and carotid arteries so the animal bleeds out quickly. It is against scriptures to eat the blood of the animal (could be some old health aspects to that as well). The animals also have to be blessed by the rabbi or mullah.

Kosher salt is used to draw out the last bits of blood.

keith99 said:

Again it depends on hte definitiomn of Halal used. Most require that the animal is slaughtered in the name of Allah. I'd assume that requires the butcher to be Muslim. I doubt Butterball would require all their butchers who slaughter turkeys to be Muslim and I doubt even more that a single week would pass without a lawsuit being fiels if they did.

Which totally convinces me that Butterball uses the minority position that the animal not be slaughtered in hte name of any other god.

Which would make those makingthe claims totally dishonest jerks.

Now IF the turkeys are in fact slaughtered in hte name of Allah I can see objections by Christians, Jews and many other groups that have a god. After all it is then in a very real sense an animal sacrificed to a false god.

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I can't see objections being truly justified by that. Allah is the Arabic word for God, and I don't see how any Christian would be justified in thinking that Allah or God is a false god. At the very least, any Christian who thinks that the God of the Jews is God should also think that the God of Muslims is God.

DaisyDay said:

Most slaughterhouses stun the animal before slaughtering by bashing them in the head with either a sledgehammer or shock gun. Kosher and halal butchers don't, they just cut the jugular and carotid arteries so the animal bleeds out quickly. It is against scriptures to eat the blood of the animal (could be some old health aspects to that as well). The animals also have to be blessed by the rabbi or mullah.

Kosher salt is used to draw out the last bits of blood.

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Nothing in that makes the meat unsuitable for Christians, and more so it actually makes it more proper than any food product that contains blood to a lot of Christians who also do not eat blood. See Acts 15:29.

Well- I don't care- so long as it doesn't go against this:

Act 15:19-20
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

The Council of Jerusalem as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles clarified a lot of things for Christians- especially those who weren't Jewish converts. These things are referred to in the New Testament as being prohibited to believers and are still in effect as far as the Church canons are concerned. We are to abstain from what has been strangled, from blood, from any food and other things offered to idols, and sexual immorality.

My personal motto is- when in doubt- don't eat it.

Gotta live Bryan Fischer's logic. Since he has not personally heard PETA take a stance against halal slaughter, it proves that they never have and are completely okay with it.

Oh well, at least they're consistent. It's the same fallacious logic they use to conclude that the majority of the world's Muslims are passive terror supporters.

But seriously, I predict that this whole affair will turn out to be a canard. The entire assertion that Butterball turkeys are halal comes from one company representative who said so in response to a specific question from a contacting customer. Before that, nobody knew. So, unless that one customer would have asked, Butterball would have kept on producing halal turkeys without anyone, least of all potential Muslim customers, knowing.

Why would a company driven by profit motive to go through the effort and expense of establishing halal production, but abstain from actually trying to market their turkeys to customers who care about halal? Has anyone actually been able to locate any actual, public ad or other statement from Butterball stating that theit turkeys are halal?

That the answer of a single employee in response to a specific question constitutes prima facie evidence that all Butterball turkeys are halal says something about the intellectual level of the anti-Islamic blogosphere.

I'd be willing to bet money on the notion that the employee who actually made that reply about halal turkeys is a snake oil salesman who was just firing from the hip and (probably unwisely) telling the customer what he thought the customer wanted to hear.

PHenry42 said:

But seriously, I predict that this whole affair will turn out to be a canard. The entire assertion that Butterball turkeys are halal comes from one company representative who said so in response to a specific question from a contacting customer. Before that, nobody knew. So, unless that one customer would have asked, Butterball would have kept on producing halal turkeys without anyone, least of all potential Muslim customers, knowing.

Why would a company driven by profit motive to go through the effort and expense of establishing halal production, but abstain from actually trying to market their turkeys to customers who care about halal? Has anyone actually been able to locate any actual, public ad or other statement from Butterball stating that theit turkeys are halal?

That the answer of a single employee in response to a specific question constitutes prima facie evidence that all Butterball turkeys are halal says something about the intellectual level of the anti-Islamic blogosphere.

I'd be willing to bet money on the notion that the employee who actually made that reply about halal turkeys is a snake oil salesman who was just firing from the hip and (probably unwisely) telling the customer what he thought the customer wanted to hear.

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That's not so necessesarily so at all. It may well be that it is produced halal, but not marketed as such in order to avoid bad publicity, even while any bad publicity for that would be badly motivated.