Gay couples to be allowed civil ceremonies in church

Jase,

There is not a single shred of evidence proving that gays ever change their orientation.

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More gobbledegaygook. Yes there is, both God’s word (ie 1 Cor 6) and testimonies of people who have been changed. What you mean is you believe what some people claim rather than what others claim and the word of God says.
Not in this section of the forum please. If you want help there are the "Recovery" and "Ask a Chaplain" sections for the purpose of seeking support with struggles overcoming same-sex attractions, and homosexual issues.

Until you guys can deal with the facts at hand, and not the misinformation spread by anti-gay hate groups and pastors, this issue will always be contentious. And you're on the losing side of history.

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Up to you, Christ has won the victory

Jase

mikemack said:

This argument always made me curious.

Why does saying that they are scientifically attracted make it fine? There are plenty of things that could likely be proven scientifically but that we don't follow up on.

Also just by disagreeing with gay marriage we're called "hate groups". Why are churches not allowed to have opinions? We don't call churches hate groups because they don't agree with divorce do we?

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This however is a good question from mikemack. Look forward to you addressing it.

My wife and I are a gay couple, but in a joyful disposition way, not a sexual way, in a sexual way we are husband and wife.

waves said:

Lynne Featherstone, the equalities minister, will say that the ban on the ceremonies in religious surroundings will be lifted on Dec 5. The move has been championed by David Cameron but is likely to be opposed by some church groups.

The scheme will be “voluntary” with no church compelled to offer same-sex services.

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Good for Lynne Featherstone.

Point of order, though - it's same-sex couples, not gay couples. The two people in a same-sex couple aren't necessarily gay (one or both of them could be bisexual).

However, it is likely that some campaigners will seek to push the matter further if churches refuse to open their doors to gay couples.

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I doubt it.

David.

David Brider said:

Good for Lynne Featherstone.

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The pagans say.

Point of order, though - it's same-sex couples, not gay couples. The two people in a same-sex couple aren't necessarily gay (one or both of them could be bisexual).

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It would be a bi-sexual choosing homosexuality in reality David. It's still an afront to Christian holiness. Precisely what the "powers and principlaities" (dark evil) do.

I doubt it.

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Your doubts will be washed away as the evil inherent in this demonic attack on the Christian Church materializes for what it is. An attack on the Christian Church. The proof of that is in just watching the hordes of anti-Christian seculaeists cheering and celebrating. Darkness snuffing out the light.

Years ago, the leadership of the "Moral Majority" warned us, and tried hard to fight this menace, this malevolent force. Now they have been proven right for trying. Though, in a world gone mad, where deviance and perversion is celebrated once again in holy places, they really had little chance of helping turn the tide of what is now the most corrupt generation the world has seen in centuries, if not of all time.

The "abomination that makes desolation" is coming for the Temple.

99percentatheism said:

The pagans say.

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And some Christians. Me, for a start.

It would be a bi-sexual choosing homosexuality in reality David.

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No, it would be a bisexual being bisexual.

It's still an afront to Christian holiness.

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And yet not all Christians agree with you on that one. Some Christian churches are more than happy to carry out same-sex civil union services (and same-sex marriages, where it's legal in the countries they're in) on their premises. They obviously don't see that as an affront to Christian holiness.

Your doubts will be washed away as the evil inherent in this demonic attack on the Christian Church materializes for what it is. An attack on the Christian Church.

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So...letting Christian churches make up their own minds whether or not to perform same-sex civil union services on their premises is "an attack on the Christian church"? Oooookaaaayyyy...

David.

David Brider,

I doubt it.

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We know they will just as they are doing with everything people like yourself said about civil partnerships.
　

And some Christians. Me, for a start.

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Christians follow Christ’s teaching or they are false teachers. 1 Cor 5 indicates those who persist in sexual immorality merely call themselves brothers. If you are seeking support with struggles overcoming same-sex attractions, and homosexual issues you can go to the Recovery and Ask a Chaplain sections.

And yet not all Christians agree with you on that one.

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Nor do they agree with God’s word. 99% is one of those Christians who does, you are one who doesnt.

mikemack said:

This argument always made me curious.

Why does saying that they are scientifically attracted make it fine? There are plenty of things that could likely be proven scientifically but that we don't follow up on.

Also just by disagreeing with gay marriage we're called "hate groups". Why are churches not allowed to have opinions? We don't call churches hate groups because they don't agree with divorce do we?

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Because being attracted to someone is not a sin, and causes no harm. Can you control who you find attractive? I seriously doubt you see a beautiful women, stop for a minute, ask yourself if you would like to find her attractive, and then get a chemical and biological response to that decision that makes you feel attraction.

It's an automatic, involuntary response.

And I never said churches are hate groups. Many so called "Christian" organizations are, such as Family Research Council are though, because they deliberately lie and spread false information about gays in order to demonize them.

Churches can have whatever opinions they want. I consider many, if not most of them to be corrupt and hypocritical, and I don't believe they should be exempt from taxes since they love to involve themselves in secular issues .

Jase,

And I never said churches are hate groups. Many so called "Christian" organizations are, such as Family Research Council are though, because they deliberately lie and spread false information about gays in order to demonize them.

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Like what?

Jase said:

Because being attracted to someone is not a sin, and causes no harm. Can you control who you find attractive? I seriously doubt you see a beautiful women, stop for a minute, ask yourself if you would like to find her attractive, and then get a chemical and biological response to that decision that makes you feel attraction.

It's an automatic, involuntary response.

And I never said churches are hate groups. Many so called "Christian" organizations are, such as Family Research Council are though, because they deliberately lie and spread false information about gays in order to demonize them.

Churches can have whatever opinions they want. I consider many, if not most of them to be corrupt and hypocritical, and I don't believe they should be exempt from taxes since they love to involve themselves in secular issues .

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Ive found myself attracted to married women and underage girls. It doesn't mean I should act on those feelings.

You know I've often been told that I take the easy way out being a Christian. When the opposite is really true. I am watched constantly to make sure I do what I say I live by. One mess up and I'm called a failure or hypocrite. Churches are a lot like this too. So much pressure on them to be perfect when the reality is they're just regular people stumbling their way through life trying to follow God. But they are still just human, and all humans inevitably fail.

That wasn't so much a direct reply as it was a thought I had after reading your reply.

Lord have Mercy!

brightmorningstar said:

My wife and I are a gay couple, but in a joyful disposition way, not a sexual way, in a sexual way we are husband and wife.

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- thanks, laughed so hard I got a stitch.

mikemack,

Ive found myself attracted to married women and underage girls. It doesn't mean I should act on those feelings.

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Good point.
This is exactly what the gay argument insists however, they haven't found any consensus of proof to being born 'gay' but they insist on that for the justification.

mikemack said:

Ive found myself attracted to married women and underage girls. It doesn't mean I should act on those feelings.

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Nobody's saying you should, to the best of my knowledge.

I'll be honest - it's the inequality of the whole thing that frustrates me. If a man and a woman (single, unrelated, above the age of consent) meet up, get to know each other, spend time together, fall in love, pair off, and eventually decide they'd like to get married, nobody bats an eyelid. If the same happens to a man and a man, or to a woman and a woman, it's a major issue for some people, and in many areas of the world they're unable to get married.

I mean, nobody actually minds if some - if the vast majority - of Christian churches hold the opinion that it's wrong for same-sex couples to get married. That's their opinion, and they're entitled to it. It's the bit where they use their opinion as an excuse to pretty much force other people to live by their rules, their standards. You (by which I mean a general you, not necessarily you in particular) may personally be against same-sex marriage; the answer to that is simple: don't get married to someone of the same sex as yourself. Letting same-sex couples get married isn't going to have the slightest effect on you, so why be opposed it? As long as no harm's being done, live and let live.

David Brider,

Nobody's saying you should, to the best of my knowledge.

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you missed mikemack’s point. Just because one is attracted to someone doesn’t automatically justify acting on the feelings, which the previous generalisation implied.

If the same happens to a man and a man, or to a woman and a woman, it's a major issue for some people, and in many areas of the world they're unable to get married.

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It is anatomically dysfunctional, and against God’s purposes.

I mean, nobody actually minds if some - if the vast majority - of Christian churches hold the opinion that it's wrong for same-sex couples to get married.

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The word of God describes it as error and sin. Its not a case for you to judge God.

That's their opinion,

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No it is what God’s word says, not a matter for you to judge the word of God as different peoples’ opinions.

Letting same-sex couples get married isn't going to have the slightest effect on you, so why be opposed it? As long as no harm's being done, live and let live.

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Harm is done. Sexual immorality, including same sex relations, is a sin (Gen 19, Lev 18 20, 1 Cor 6, Rom 1) and harm against the body God has created, (1 Cor 6,) and a barrier to the Kingdom of God, (1 Cor 6) and not marriage that God has ordained (Gen 2,Matt 19, Mark 10 , Eph 5)

Cease posting denial and disbelief of God’s word because you trust your opinion more.

If you wish to seek support try the sections CF provides.

mikemack said:

Ive found myself attracted to married women and underage girls. It doesn't mean I should act on those feelings.

You know I've often been told that I take the easy way out being a Christian. When the opposite is really true. I am watched constantly to make sure I do what I say I live by. One mess up and I'm called a failure or hypocrite. Churches are a lot like this too. So much pressure on them to be perfect when the reality is they're just regular people stumbling their way through life trying to follow God. But they are still just human, and all humans inevitably fail.

That wasn't so much a direct reply as it was a thought I had after reading your reply.

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Yeah churches are just ordinary people fumbling their way through life, you are right. So why do so many of them spend so much time judging others and playing God? Live and let live and leave the judging to God almighty.

So why do so many of them spend so much time judging others and playing God?

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They don’t play God, all they do is witness God’s purposes to the world.

revelations12_12 said:

Yeah churches are just ordinary people fumbling their way through life, you are right. So why do so many of them spend so much time judging others and playing God? Live and let live and leave the judging to God almighty.

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It's one of those situations where many are judged by the few. Ill admit that at various times I've found myself judging others where God would not want me to. Sometimes I don't confront people when I think God does want me to do. Then on occasion I manage to get things right and do what God wants me to.

A church is made up of people in many places on their journey as a Christian. I believe that most of the church is trying to do the right thing(though there will always be those just there to cause problems). Just so often we don't do or get it right.

I'm not saying Christians should never do anything, just that we have to be careful that we are trying to uphold Gods law and not just here to accuse and critisize others. This is where hate often arises instead of the original intent.

The important thing is that no church or religious group is forced to perform gay marriage ceremonies. That would be wrong!

There are some churches around who would happily do it.

LOCO said:

Lord have Mercy!

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Amen sister. Come L-rd Jesus, come.