When Will Christ Return?

Achilles6129 said:

So, what year range do you think Jesus Christ will return? Vote in the poll and then post your reason for your vote.

I think Christ will return in the 2030s for several reasons:

1) The 2030s will be exactly 2000 years after Christ left. God has a thing with numbers, and Christ has a 1000 year reign. It could be that Jesus Christ returns 2000 years after he ascended into heaven.

2) The timing is simply not right at this moment. We need a one world government before anything in the book of Revelation can begin happening, and it is going to take some time to set up a one world government (many legal hurdles, etc.). As soon as the one world government is in place the antichrist will appear. I think this will begin in the mid-to-late 2020s.

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I say when He is ready and not before

I am a member of an intellectual group known amoungst our friends as The Guardians. We completed our studies in June of 1992. Since then we've been looking into how we can relay what we've found to others.

The passage you refer to is true. Here goes---- DNA has shown conclisively that all peoples on the planet descended from a bushman tribe in Africa. The DNA traces are found in all continents. Bear in mind---I am speaking of genetic lines, not Spiritual. The Creator of man is spiritual not physical. That means that everyone's spiritual can be seen going back to one origin. The people that settled between the Tigress and Euphrates rivers are the ones that became Adam. Adam is a people not a singular. Adam is as the Creator---a spiritual one, not a physical. Man is a spiritual entity not a physical one. There is no such thing as a human body as the spiritual is the person not the body. If one is Created in his image and he is spiritual then man is also the spiritual. Consider carefully. The Apostles point ou that -First there was the physical and then the spiritual-. That means---the body came first,and also means that being the body is material, it is material that formed in the universe first What I'm pointing out is- the material has its origin (unknown) and the spiritual has it's. The spiritual is divided into two entities, human and animal, there are no other entities possible. Now---What makes Adam is the understanding (enlightenment)of ---the Creator. Adam is a making of a division of the to entities and adhere to one, the human. There you have it-Adam. That took place upon a people that settled between the two rivers. The rest of the people everywhere else remained as is. While all are created in the Image, all did not become as Adam. History shows that there were people on the planet in other places at the time of Adam. The bible deals only with the genetic lines of the Israelites and their descendants. Only the middle east peoples (Arabs) can be traced back to Adam where branches extend from Abraham. The keys to understand the bible are 1- it cannot be interpretated in the European mindset. The Ancients in the middle east think and speak differently and have a different perspective of things. 2- The bible cannot be read or interpreted in manner of an English novel. The Ancients didn't think lor write as Europeans. The forces (spiritual) that created man are not the forces that created the (material) universe. The Creator made all peoples, but did not create all as Adam. BUT, All can become as Adam through enlightenment (let there be light), hence-the process of Christianity-to end the present world and enter the one of Adam. It's voluntary. The bible is not a history of the material planet, it's the history of a people that descended from Adam and rejected it and returned to being like all others

Achilles6129 said:

So, what year range do you think Jesus Christ will return? Vote in the poll and then post your reason for your vote.

I think Christ will return in the 2030s for several reasons:

1) The 2030s will be exactly 2000 years after Christ left. God has a thing with numbers, and Christ has a 1000 year reign. It could be that Jesus Christ returns 2000 years after he ascended into heaven.

2) The timing is simply not right at this moment. We need a one world government before anything in the book of Revelation can begin happening, and it is going to take some time to set up a one world government (many legal hurdles, etc.). As soon as the one world government is in place the antichrist will appear. I think this will begin in the mid-to-late 2020s.

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HelloAchilles6129 greetings,
I agree that I also has a spiritual vision that these shall come forth in year 2032 on the midyear period. However,to stay away from false prophesy, I just keep it on my own because the Scripture is clear in Acts 1:7 And he said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority;

So,I was preparing spiritually because the Scripture also noted that the days will be shortened.

Thanks and god bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

Old Seer said:

I am a member of an intellectual group known amoungst our friends as The Guardians. We completed our studies in June of 1992. Since then we've been looking into how we can relay what we've found to others.

The passage you refer to is true. Here goes---- DNA has shown conclisively that all peoples on the planet descended from a bushman tribe in Africa. The DNA traces are found in all continents. Bear in mind---I am speaking of genetic lines, not Spiritual. The Creator of man is spiritual not physical. That means that everyone's spiritual can be seen going back to one origin. The people that settled between the Tigress and Euphrates rivers are the ones that became Adam. Adam is a people not a singular. Adam is as the Creator---a spiritual one, not a physical. Man is a spiritual entity not a physical one. There is no such thing as a human body as the spiritual is the person not the body. If one is Created in his image and he is spiritual then man is also the spiritual. Consider carefully. The Apostles point ou that -First there was the physical and then the spiritual-. That means---the body came first,and also means that being the body is material, it is material that formed in the universe first What I'm pointing out is- the material has its origin (unknown) and the spiritual has it's. The spiritual is divided into two entities, human and animal, there are no other entities possible. Now---What makes Adam is the understanding (enlightenment)of ---the Creator. Adam is a making of a division of the to entities and adhere to one, the human. There you have it-Adam. That took place upon a people that settled between the two rivers. The rest of the people everywhere else remained as is. While all are created in the Image, all did not become as Adam. History shows that there were people on the planet in other places at the time of Adam. The bible deals only with the genetic lines of the Israelites and their descendants. Only the middle east peoples (Arabs) can be traced back to Adam where branches extend from Abraham. The keys to understand the bible are 1- it cannot be interpretated in the European mindset. The Ancients in the middle east think and speak differently and have a different perspective of things. 2- The bible cannot be read or interpreted in manner of an English novel. The Ancients didn't think lor write as Europeans. The forces (spiritual) that created man are not the forces that created the (material) universe. The Creator made all peoples, but did not create all as Adam. BUT, All can become as Adam through enlightenment (let there be light), hence-the process of Christianity-to end the present world and enter the one of Adam. It's voluntary. The bible is not a history of the material planet, it's the history of a people that descended from Adam and rejected it and returned to being like all others

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Hello Old Seer,
I'm not persuading you on your belief and good intention to relay to others what you had learn from your group, but I think this is not the proper thread to discuss your theology and not to derail this thread.
Hope you understand.
Thanks and God bless.
your brother .
virgilio

What really disturbs me is that only 43% voted "I don't know". This is the ONLY correct answer from the choices above. The Lord could return in 5 seconds or 50 thousand years! We don't know. Jesus himself nearly shouts that message in his teachings; the Apostles continue to shout it.

We don't know. So stay ready for the Lord to return, because not only could he return in judgement in the twinkling of an eye, but we could die at any moment and face our own personal trip straight to judgement. So stay ready, because only in Christ is the universal problem of sin solved.

There is no other verse in the bible that contradicts Jesus saying he will return unexpectedly, like a thief. None. Zip.

Achilles6129 said:

Quite. However, certain prophecies have to be fulfilled. The entire book of Revelation must be fulfilled. And remember that the bridegroom tarries.

However, I think that the signs we're seeing now in the weather are a precursor to the weather at the end.

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I myself believe the book of Rev has been fulfilled and not for us in the 21st century but for those 1st century Christians. I believe the only thing to happen is Acts 1 where Christ returns. That's just me.

I personally do not get wrapped up in date or generational speculations. I look at the change in society and world events to attempt to judge the demise of America. This is nowhere near the America that was established.

We have many of the signs of the times in place, we have a world financial crisis esculating, we have a degenerating populous, we have serious issues with pensions, SS/medicare etc. that are not being dealt with properly.

The world has seen some horrible events in history, but this time period is setting up quickly for those that are spoken of in Revelations. We have the destructive power, the world-wide satellite system, the computor systems and plenty of people that are highly dependent on government.

maat said:

I personally do not get wrapped up in date or generational speculations. I look at the change in society and world events to attempt to judge the demise of America. This is nowhere near the America that was established.

We have many of the signs of the times in place, we have a world financial crisis esculating, we have a degenerating populous, we have serious issues with pensions, SS/medicare etc. that are not being dealt with properly.

The world has seen some horrible events in history, but this time period is setting up quickly for those that are spoken of in Revelations. We have the destructive power, the world-wide satellite system, the computor systems and plenty of people that are highly dependent on government.

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Many would argue that life in America has never been better? That would contradict your 'signs of the times', wouldn't it?

I think the bible makes it pretty clear that there will always be 'stuff' (wars, earthquakes, droughts, famines, storms, etc) happening, right across the 'Last days'. The Last Days started when the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost. We've been in them for 2000 years, and they've had pretty much the same story of disaster, drought, and disease. It's the same old, same old.

eclipsenow said:

What really disturbs me is that only 43% voted "I don't know". This is the ONLY correct answer from the choices above. The Lord could return in 5 seconds or 50 thousand years! We don't know. Jesus himself nearly shouts that message in his teachings; the Apostles continue to shout it.

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Hello eclipsenow,
Why are you disturb when there are only 43% voted "I don't know" and how could you say it is the correct answer? or nowhere in the Scripture was it written that " I don't know" is correct?

We don't know. So stay ready for the Lord to return, because not only could he return in judgement in the twinkling of an eye, but we could die at any moment and face our own personal trip straight to judgement. So stay ready, because only in Christ is the universal problem of sin solved.

There is no other verse in the bible that contradicts Jesus saying he will return unexpectedly,like a thief. None. Zip.

Click to expand...

I agree that to die at any moment and face our personal trip can happen in a twinkling of an eye.,,but it is define as a natural death of a man and not considered as a return of the Lord to return the world for general judgment
which is the topic of the thread.

About death, I'm always prepare as Paul's saying "I rather want to be absent in the flesh and be present to the Lord.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

eclipsenow said:

Many would argue that life in America has never been better? That would contradict your 'signs of the times', wouldn't it?

I think the bible makes it pretty clear that there will always be 'stuff' (wars, earthquakes, droughts, famines, storms, etc) happening, right across the 'Last days'. The Last Days started when the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost. We've been in them for 2000 years, and they've had pretty much the same story of disaster, drought, and disease. It's the same old, same old.

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Hi eclipsenow,
Again I agree with you that everything that happen under the sun is the same old, same old.
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which will be done: and there is nothing new under the sun.

v.10 Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already in the ages which were before us.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

I posted this in the wrong place. Apologies.

Old Seer said:

I posted this in the wrong place. Apologies.

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Hello old Seer,
If you want we may discuss this in new thread.

Thanks and god bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

Hello,

I think that other possible years are 2044 and 2057

pc_home said:

Hello,

I think that other possible years are 2044 and 2057

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Hello pc_home greetings,
welcome to the Forum.
your guess is good as mine.
Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

pc_home said:

Hello,

I think that other possible years are 2044 and 2057

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I think that any second of any day of any year between this second and ... well ... when it actually happens, are just as likely.

We are not given any 'signs' by which we might know. Not one. Revelation is the gospel writ large in apocalyptic picture language for the suffering church. And other 'end times' language in the gospels largely concerns the 'abomination that causes desolation', which turns out to be Jesus crucified on the cross, which then cascades in wave after terrible wave of apocalyptic language into the Romans burning down the temple, and the eventual destruction of this entire universe and re-creation of a New Heavens and New Earth.

The trick is knowing when the gospel language shifts from one topic to another.

eclipsenow said:

I think that any second of any day of any year between this second and ... well ... when it actually happens, are just as likely.

We are not given any 'signs' by which we might know. Not one. Revelation is the gospel writ large in apocalyptic picture language for the suffering church. And other 'end times' language in the gospels largely concerns the 'abomination that causes desolation', which turns out to be Jesus crucified on the cross, which then cascades in wave after terrible wave of apocalyptic language into the Romans burning down the temple, and the eventual destruction of this entire universe and re-creation of a New Heavens and New Earth.

The trick is knowing when the gospel language shifts from one topic to another.

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Hi eclipsenow,
But the Scripture is clear..,Ecclesiastes 1:-42 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities! all is vanity.

v.3 What profit hath man of all his labour wherewith he laboureth under the sun?

v.4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh, but the earth standeth for ever.

So, if the earth shall stand and remain forever what is the new earth and new heaven that will be created?
Just asking.
Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

virgilio said:

Hi eclipsenow,
But the Scripture is clear..,Ecclesiastes 1:-42 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities! all is vanity.

v.3 What profit hath man of all his labour wherewith he laboureth under the sun?

v.4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh, but the earth standeth for ever.

So, if the earth shall stand and remain forever what is the new earth and new heaven that will be created?
Just asking.
Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

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The New Heavens and New Earth are "now and not yet" as Tom Wright puts it. The New Creation was inaugurated at Christ's resurrection, and continue through today on into the future, and will be finished when Christ returns and the dead are resurrected.

We can also take an active role in this process, when we seek to correct injustice or liberate the oppressed, or love widows and orphans than we're doing our part in partnering with God and bringing the New Creation forth in the midst of the old one.

Bourne said:

The New Heavens and New Earth are "now and not yet" as Tom Wright puts it. The New Creation was inaugurated at Christ's resurrection, and continue through today on into the future, and will be finished when Christ returns and the dead are resurrected.

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Hello Bourne greetings,
I'm glad to share with you about the New Heaven and New Earth that man is wrongly awaiting not understanding the word in Scripture.
As what I'd said in my previous post taken in Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities! all is vanity.
3 What profit hath man of all his labour wherewith he laboureth under the sun?
4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh, but the earth standeth for ever.

So, if the earth will remain forever,what is the earth and heaven that will be replace? Let us read the Scripture;
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it was waste and empty; and the heavens, and they had no light. (why is earth empty and which heaven had no light?) Let the Scripture answer. emphasis mine.
Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have no intelligence; they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. (what happen to the earth and heaven?) emphasis mine.
Deuteronomy 28:21-24 LORD will make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

v.22 LORD will smite thee with consumption, and with fever, and with inflammation, and with burning ague, and with drought, and with blight, and with mildew, and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

v.23 And thy heavens which are over thy head shall be brass, and the earth which is under thee, iron.

v.24 LORD will give as the rain of thy land powder and dust; from the heavens shall it come down upon thee until thou be destroyed.

How will the LORD make a new heaven and new earth?

Isaiah 60:15 Instead of thy being forsaken and hated, so that no one went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy from generation to generation.

v.16 And thou shalt suck the milk of the nations, and shalt suck the breast of kings; and thou shalt know that I, LORD, [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

v.17 For bronze I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood bronze, and for stones iron; and I will make thine officers peace, and thy rulers righteousness.

v.18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

v19 The sun shall be no .more thy light by day, neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee; but LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down, neither shall thy moon withdraw itself; for LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall possess the land for ever -- the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

We can also take an active role in this process, when we seek to correct injustice or liberate the oppressed, or love widows and orphans than we're doing our part in partnering with God and bringing the New Creation forth in the midst of the old one.

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Agree, James 1:22 But be ye doers of [the] word and not hearers only, beguiling yourselves.

v.23 For if any man be a hearer of [the] word and not a doer, *he* is like to a man considering his natural face in a mirror:

v.24 for he has considered himself and is gone away, and straightway he has forgotten what he was like.

v.5 But *he* that fixes his view on [the] perfect law, that of liberty, and abides in [it], being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of [the] work, *he* shall be blessed in his doing.

v.26 If any one think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his heart, this man's religion is vain.

v.27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

Most of this is apocalyptic picture language that is theologically descriptive but scientifically silent. So while I might have said the old order of creation was 'destroyed', according to 2 Peter 3, I'm quite happy to replace that word with 'upgraded'.

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
<snip>
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

Yet I have friends teaching in Australian bible colleges, both Anglican and Presbyterian, who say this language is more about the judgement of the wicked and end of the world of men organised against God. It's theological language for 'big things happening' and is not necessarily literally or scientifically describing what that great day will look like. These same friends are not persuaded by the (complicated) writing of N.T. Wright.

I can't find their articles on him, so I'll leave you with a few from the White Horse Inn if you're into podcasts. One of these was excellent, but which one? I can't remember! (So many podcasts, so little time).

N. T. Wright - White Horse Inn Blog