British Government Says Ban on Gay Weddings in Churches Will Be Lifted

blarg the 2nd · Nov 2, 2011

Wolseley said:
So, what happens to the church that adamantly refuses to perform homosexual weddings?

this is good people should have religious freedom under the law and under that you can not stop 2 ( or more ) consenting people form marrying in a religious sense on legal grounds.

though a church or minster refusing to preform a religious ceremony is a part of freedom of religion as well.

you have to fight for both if you want religious freedom

blarg the 2nd · Nov 2, 2011

Wolseley said:
We'll see.

will you? you don't seem to see that a government ban on same sex religious ceremony's is government interference with religion.

or perhaps you do and im misunderstanding you in that case im sorry :sorry:

blarg the 2nd · Nov 2, 2011

Wolseley said:
Apples and oranges. You're trying to re-cast a moral consideration as a civil rights issue. It's a common tack, but it doesn't hold water.

no its the same persecution of 2 people you don't want to be together based on things about themselves they can not change whose union you consider to be wrong based on faith and feeling.

yasic · Nov 2, 2011

Wolseley said:
Apples and oranges. You're trying to re-cast a moral consideration as a civil rights issue. It's a common tack, but it doesn't hold water.

I honestly fail to see the difference between interracial marriage and homosexual marriage. Both seem to be both a moral question and a civil rights issue. Can you show me how they do not both perfectly fit into the same category?

USincognito · Nov 3, 2011

Wolseley said:
Apples and oranges. You're trying to re-cast a moral consideration as a civil rights issue. It's a common tack, but it doesn't hold water.

Those carrying "God demands segregation" signs certainly saw it as a moral consideration.

Self Improvement · Nov 3, 2011

USincognito said:
Those carrying "God demands segregation" signs certainly saw it as a moral consideration.

Well, we've seen throughout history that what God thinks tends to change with what humans think at the time. Gee, I wonder why that is?

The answer is obvious to people like us, but for some reason eludes most of this board.

SonOfTheWest · Nov 3, 2011

And this welshman grows a little more proud of his country

Nabobalis · Nov 3, 2011

Self Improvement said:
Well, we've seen throughout history that what God thinks tends to change with what humans think at the time. Gee, I wonder why that is?

The answer is obvious to people like us, but for some reason eludes most of this board.

To be fair, most leaders have a direct line to God and tbh he is a bit too easy to bring on side

craigerNY · Nov 3, 2011

Wolseley said:
what about the freedom of the churches to be left alone without government interference?

Were you OK with government interference when it came in the form of prohibiting a church's ability to marry gays?

artybloke · Nov 3, 2011

I thought all considered it a sin, but legally you can't exactly force someone not to be gay.

There was a practising Catholic on TV today who didn't seem to have any problem with it whatsoever. More and more Christians are beginning to see the absurdity of basing moral standards on a few obscure and out of context verses in the OT & NT.

bigbadwilf · Nov 3, 2011

Cute Tink said:
As this is not the US in the article, I have to ask: What are the other options in Britain for having a wedding ceremony?

You can have a civil wedding (as I did)

Now this is where things get slightly complicated...

In England and Wales, any venue with a roof can be registered as a venue for weddings for about £500 (this is normally waived for churches/mosques/temples etc) where it can be solemnised by a civil registrar (or assistant registrar).

In Scotland, I don't think the venue even requires a roof.

In Northern Ireland there is no fixed roof requirement, or indeed wall requirement, there's a big list of approved places including numerous castles, at least one stretch of shoreline and a boat.

Skaloop · Nov 3, 2011

bigbadwilf said:
You can have a civil wedding (as I did)

Now this is where things get slightly complicated...

In England and Wales, any venue with a roof can be registered as a venue for weddings for about £500 (this is normally waived for churches/mosques/temples etc) where it can be solemnised by a civil registrar (or assistant registrar).

In Scotland, I don't think the venue even requires a roof.

In Northern Ireland there is no fixed roof requirement, or indeed wall requirement, there's a big list of approved places including numerous castles, at least one stretch of shoreline and a boat.

Does that mean that weddings can only take place in an approved venue?

SithDoughnut · Nov 3, 2011

Skaloop said:
Does that mean that weddings can only take place in an approved venue?

The actual legal wedding? Yes. As far as I know there's no limit as far as ceremonies and parties are concerned (other than the obvious laws - don't break into someone's house to do it, etc.).

There's a summary of the regulations surrounding marriage, etc., here.

kiwimac · Nov 3, 2011

Technically yes, but most registrars of Births, deaths and Marriages can approve just about anywhere.

Skaloop · Nov 3, 2011

SithDoughnut said:
The actual legal wedding? Yes. As far as I know there's no limit as far as ceremonies and parties are concerned (other than the obvious laws - don't break into someone's house to do it, etc.).

There's a summary of the regulations surrounding marriage, etc., here.

Huh. That means my marriage wouldn't be legal!

SithDoughnut · Nov 3, 2011

Skaloop said:
Huh. That means my marriage wouldn't be legal!

How does marriage in Canada work?

Skaloop · Nov 3, 2011

SithDoughnut said:
How does marriage in Canada work?

As far as I can tell, pretty much the same. But it doesn't have to happen in an authorized venue. Mine was in a park. We essentially just showed up; no reservations, no permits, no nothing. Did it inside a hollowed-out tree trunk that's a bit of a tourist attraction. Even had a tour bus full of Japanese visitors drive by in the middle of the ceremony. They took a bunch of pictures and cheered us on. But it was a small affair; there were only nine of us total, so that wasn't a big deal. Had a Justice of the Peace to perform it, and we fulfilled the minimal legal requirements of having the JP there to do it, have witnesses to sign off on it, and said all the necessary declarations about being able to be legally wed.

SithDoughnut · Nov 4, 2011

Skaloop said:
As far as I can tell, pretty much the same. But it doesn't have to happen in an authorized venue. Mine was in a park. We essentially just showed up; no reservations, no permits, no nothing. Did it inside a hollowed-out tree trunk that's a bit of a tourist attraction. Even had a tour bus full of Japanese visitors drive by in the middle of the ceremony. They took a bunch of pictures and cheered us on. But it was a small affair; there were only nine of us total, so that wasn't a big deal. Had a Justice of the Peace to perform it, and we fulfilled the minimal legal requirements of having the JP there to do it, have witnesses to sign off on it, and said all the necessary declarations about being able to be legally wed.

I think you could probably do that here too. Approved location just means that the government is willing to send a registrar out there.

Wayte · Nov 4, 2011

I can't understand why a legal ban on that would exist in the first place, but good on them for lifting it. As for churches being forced to do anything: I doubt it. Oh sure, some couple will probably get uppity and try to force the issue, and I'm sure the fear mongers will jump all over that. But ultimately no churches will be forced to perform ceremonies that are against their beliefs.

ACougar · Nov 4, 2011

Isn't the British government still officially Christian, the Monarchy deriving it's authority from God with Churches supported by tax dollars?

If the church is in effect a government building and the minister a government official... why should they be allowed to refuse services to some of the folks who help pay their salary? If I walked into the DMV and was refused service because I was over 6 feet tall, I'd be a little irritated.

Wolseley said:
So far. This is the key sentence in the article: "He also raised fears that what was first portrayed as an option would over time become an expectation and then a duty."

Should the Rt Rev James' concerns as articulated above become a reality (as I have little doubt they will) what about the freedom of the churches to be left alone without government interference? Do Christians who disagree with homosexual "marriage" have the same rights as everyone else, or are they specially targeted for persecution because of their "bigotry"?

British Government Says Ban on Gay Weddings in Churches Will Be Lifted

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