Europe and America In Danger

tsr · Oct 28, 2011

SithDoughnut said:
That's what most Muslims are doing.

I have read more about G. Wilders he states he does not hate Muslims but hates Islam. Well...........that is his opinion

Paulos23 · Oct 28, 2011

tsr said:
The US citizens do not want the Muslims building by the 911 site. It is considered a shrine to the 3000 plus people killed by the attack. By law yes the have the right to build however it has been prevented now, pressure has been put on the politicians and the city of NY

It may be a shine to those that died, but some of those 3000 people where Muslims as well.

And again, what harm is there in letting them have a Mosaic near the site? You worried about them bombing it again?

My grand sons going to school are not allowed to pray in class....before or after. Here is a url which in dept on prayer in school
Religion in U.S. Public Schools

I know of no law or rule that would stop them unless they where making a scene. And that is not a link that shows Muslims stopping prayer in school.

I agree we should not blame everyone.....but keep alert on those trouble makers.

And yet you are willing to shut down any Mosaic that displeases you or you don't like the location of, or claim any slight against you as from the Muslims. I don't see how you are focusing on the few when you are more then willing to blame the whole.

tsr · Oct 28, 2011

Paulos23 said:
It may be a shine to those that died, but some of those 3000 people where Muslims as well.

"Americans don't see it that way of course I don't either. The attack was done by Radical Muslims and as Americans we are very Leary of this fact, it won't change opinion of the family's that lost loved ones one bit. How would you honestly feel if one of yours....wife, girlfriend....son....daughter....etc were killed in this attack???? Would you embrace these people and forgive them for what they have done?????

And again, what harm is there in letting them have a Mosaic near the site? You worried about them bombing it again?
Try and convince the people that lost their loved one during this attack!! I would not even attempt to do so.

I know of no law or rule that would stop them unless they where making a scene. And that is not a link that shows Muslims stopping prayer in school. E

My error, you are right this is done by the U.S. Courts. Muslims what prayer time in the schools.....

And yet you are willing to shut down any Mosaic that displeases you or you don't like the location of, or claim any slight against you as from the Muslims. I don't see how you are focusing on the few when youe are more then willing to blame the whole.

Let me say this.......when I was overseas in one of the Middle Eastern Countries I was told by the people there if I tried to build a church they would blow it up...........also I was not allowed to carry a Bible or try to spread the word of God, threatened jail time.

SithDoughnut · Oct 28, 2011

tsr said:
I have read more about G. Wilders he states he does not hate Muslims but hates Islam. Well...........that is his opinion

I'm sure that's a true statement, I just doubt he can differentiate between the two.

ACougar · Oct 28, 2011

Was Christianity somehow singled out or was that how they treated all beleifs that differed from thier own? I think we have people like that here as well, thankfully they only represent a minority of the population.

If we look through history it seems clear (at least to me) that tolerant and open societies have almost always prospered and outlived intolerant and closed societies.

Christianity is stronger becuase it's competed in a fairly free marketplace of ideas for hundreds of years while Islam has been sheltered and protected from science, enlightenment thinking, and competition from other religions. In the end Islam will face a choice, adapt or become irrelevent. Either way, it's not going to be the medieval version of the religion that advances into the future in Europe or America... which means there really is no threat.

tsr said:
Let me say this.......when I was overseas in one of the Middle Eastern Countries I was told by the people there if I tried to build a church they would blow it up...........also I was not allowed to carry a Bible or try to spread the word of God, threatened jail time.

Kalevalatar · Oct 28, 2011

According to the Europol's "EU Terrorism and Trend Report 2011," 2010 saw 249 terror attacks in the Member States, of which three (3) were carried by islamist terrorists, 160 by ethno-nationalist and separatist terrorist groups, of which a notably high number (22%) were carried out by females: 123 in France, of which 83 attacks in Corsica alone; 104 in Spain, and 57 in the Republic of Ireland. Left-wing and anarchist terrorist groups were responsible of 45 attacks. Since their 1980's European terrorism campaign, right-wing extremism had become a blind spot.

And then, of course, that right-wing islamophobic Behring Breivik took from his internet rants and propaganda to action and suddenly, the European anti-terrorism agencies were all mea culpas for letting the threat grow right in front of their eyes.

To wit:

TE-SAT2011 said:
As part of its responsibility to monitor developments in the threats from terrorism in Europe, Europol produces the annual EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report. The 2011 report, published in March, warned about the increasing levels of professionalism used by right-wing extremists, for example through the use of the internet to spread propaganda, and the use of social media to attract younger people and mobilise a larger community.

Against an anti-Semitic and xenophobic background, right-wing presentations focus on sensitive topics of public debate such as immigration, corruption and the financial crisis.

And gee, here we have the OP pushing this propaganda on us.

TE-SAT2011 said:
Right-wing extremist groups are becoming more professional. A young audience is lured into the right-wing extremist scene with imagery and rhetoric from youth culture.

Only we are too mature to be that young and impressionable audience for such propaganda.

Kalevalatar · Oct 28, 2011

tsr said:
Let me say this.......when I was overseas in one of the Middle Eastern Countries I was told by the people there if I tried to build a church they would blow it up...........also I was not allowed to carry a Bible or try to spread the word of God, threatened jail time.

And which "Middle Eastern Country" was this again when you "were overseas"? The same Muslim country where you had your fantasy of 3 girls sharing your taxi and flashing at you?

mpok1519 · Oct 28, 2011

Kalevalatar said:
The irony? Racists will end up spending their eternity in hell side by side with the atheists and those Muslims etc. that they so fear and hate.

Gotta be akward and tense down there, dont ya think?

mpok1519 · Oct 28, 2011

tsr said:
In the U.S. there are incidents which have already started. One example is where 911 took place in NY Muslims want to build near the site of the attack. Now granted freedom of speech and religion is in our constitution, however this is causing a major concern for the American people which they are fighting this.

Trust me, no one is fighting it. Infact most Americans are embracing this idea of religious freedom and tolerance, something we have been doing for over 200 years.

Kalevalatar · Oct 28, 2011

mpok1519 said:
Gotta be akward and tense down there, dont ya think?

I would say, icy tension...except it's, well, the hell!

Antigone · Oct 28, 2011

mpok1519 said:
Trust me, no one is fighting it. Infact most Americans are embracing this idea of religious freedom and tolerance, something we have been doing for over 200 years.

I think for quite a few Americans (and Europeans, lest we forget) it's more along the lines of 'you're free to believe whatever I believe.' I've seen conservatives suggest that all liberals should be booted out of the country and while this, of course, is in no way representative of a majority of the country it does signal the sort of my-way-or-the-highway-democracy that Wilders, too, is not-so-subtly hinting at.

Paulos23 · Oct 28, 2011

tsr said:
Let me say this.......when I was overseas in one of the Middle Eastern Countries I was told by the people there if I tried to build a church they would blow it up...........also I was not allowed to carry a Bible or try to spread the word of God, threatened jail time.

And that justifies doing the same to Muslims in America?

Supreme · Oct 28, 2011

Paulos23 said:
And that justifies doing the same to Muslims in America?

Exactly. The whole point of having others, including Muslims, being able to practise their religious freedom is because our ideals of being able to practise faith without fear are simply better and more sophisticated. Why some want to turn America into an Islamic-style, no freedom of religion country with laws they so apparently detest doesn't make sense. You cannot fight intolerance with intolerance.

TerranceL · Oct 28, 2011

Kalevalatar said:
The irony? Racists will end up spending their eternity in hell side by side with the atheists and those Muslims etc. that they so fear and hate.

Are you trying to parody the op?

Kalevalatar · Oct 28, 2011

TerranceL said:
Are you trying to parody the op?

I am serious, I assure you. Dead serious.

Not smiling. As a practicing Christian I do believe that racists spreading hatred will go to hell for unloving their neighbours. And, as you know, my Lord Jesus Christ commanded his followers to judge, judge, and judge whenever possible to make that final job for Him a little bit easier. Let's face it, it's a hard job to judge the untold trillions of sinners who pass this life! So we are a kind of a preliminary jury.

Yes, I'm writing parody.

Now, I was under the impression that telling a fellow poster they will go to hell was against the forum rules, but apparently not, since the thread cleanup left such comment stand. And no, I would not tell an atheist, a racist, or a non-Christian believer of another faith that they go to hell, because it is against my faith which is very clear on the point that we all have our equal chance at eternal life in Jesus Christ. :wave:

tsr · Oct 28, 2011

I sent the speech of G Wilder to my pastor. Here is a reply from him.
====================================================================
My secretary forwarded your email and I read the speech. It is rather scary. I have read a counter-point article that speaks of the need for Islam to be more open to democracy and that some of the texts of Quran are problematic. Perhaps I will get a chance to share that article with you.

The problem with that article is that those who are Islamic extremists would see the Islamic scholar who wrote this article (the one I read last night that you have yet to see) as a pro-Western person and his life would be endangered also.

Perhaps one of the problems is that there seems to be little distinction between Islam and government in many countries. Christianity is able to make a distinction between religion and government (give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God). It seems that in the mind of many adherents to Islam, Islam must rule all aspects of civil, cultural and communal life, and not simply ones religion.

In Christ,

Fr. Bob

keith99 · Oct 28, 2011

Kalevalatar said:
The irony? Racists will end up spending their eternity in hell side by side with the atheists and those Muslims etc. that they so fear and hate.

At first I thought sounds good, oh not for all in the groups, but for those in each group that end up in hell.

Then I thought perhaps not, each might find comfort in knowing their enemies fared poorly also.

Then I realized that God could easily make it work by making each group think their situation in hell was a bit worse then that of their enemies.

I'm sure God or Satan can be for more creative than Dante.

Hope I don't get a front row view.

mpok1519 · Oct 29, 2011

Antigone said:
I think for quite a few Americans (and Europeans, lest we forget) it's more along the lines of 'you're free to believe whatever I believe.' I've seen conservatives suggest that all liberals should be booted out of the country and while this, of course, is in no way representative of a majority of the country it does signal the sort of my-way-or-the-highway-democracy that Wilders, too, is not-so-subtly hinting at.

well, Wilders isn't someone most people have heard about, in America.

most people are honestly, religiously tolerant. And they don't see people as damned simply bc they share different beliefs.

tsr · Oct 29, 2011

mpok1519 said:
well, Wilders isn't someone most people have heard about, in America.

most people are honestly, religiously tolerant. And they don't see people as damned simply bc they share different beliefs.

I agree with you on your statement Wilders its my way or the highway. He is quite bitter but like anyone else he is entitled to his opinion like everyone else.

In America today people are a bit more cautious and nervous since the 911 attack. We should be more tolerable but we are not at this time.

Supreme · Oct 29, 2011

tsr said:
I agree with you on your statement Wilders its my way or the highway. He is quite bitter but like anyone else he is entitled to his opinion like everyone else.

In America today people are a bit more cautious and nervous since the 911 attack. We should be more tolerable but we are not at this time.

Of course he's entitled to his opinion. But his opinion goes against the very ideals we cherish in European society. He is, in all honesty, no different from the Islamist extremists he so dislikes. They are two sides of the same intolerant coin.

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