Messianic Muslims/Seekers of Isa meet Messianic Jews/Students of Yeshua--Is it Real?

tm2cruz said:

Yup, I also talked to Muslims too and sadly the one interpreted in your posts are completely different. Like what I said, they interpreted it that way and expand on it so it's no difference. There are a lot of Muslims also got saved because of Jesus but they later realized that the Quran was corrupted. It was after they received Jesus then they discovered but that doesn't mean it's the same. God will use some common words depends on each person to guide them to the real truth but that doesn't mean the one where they came from are the same. That's the danger of some interpreting and mingling it w/ the Bible.

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In Islamic culture, you'll get a myriad of interpretation..though I'm glad for the ones who know how to correctly address the Quran and realize it really isn't based upon the Quran to say that Jesus isn't the Messiah. For those that expanded on it thinking it doesn't support belief in Jesus as the Messiah, they simply need to do better study...and for those Muslims who became saved because of Jesus/realized where the Quran itself had some aspects to it that weren't fully accurate. Doesn't mean, however, that the ones where they came from are NOT the same simply because of places where there are differences. That's part of the danger of not really addressing culture/context in scripture and assuming its "mingling" rather than simple acknowledgement. For by the same logic, the Lord Yeshua was "mingling" when half of his stories were often older ones used in Rabbinical Judaism (which didn't acknowledge Him as the Messiah).

To be clear..the same dynamics of corruption (or inerrancy) can ALSO be said of scripture and many believers in Christ (be it those coming from a Muslim past or those not even connected to it) have noted such over the years---and they have many valid points...but that's a discussion for another day. Some of this has been discussed amongst many of the Messianics here when it comes to debating parts of the Torah/New Testament (as seen here and here and the thread entitled [REPORT FREE THREAD] staff/member(MJ members) discussion "Discrediting Paul" ), with the discussion centuring on whether some parts of it were even inspired or not (notably, the writings of Paul).

There are cults have mingled in the truth of the bible, same thing like the Islam and bible, and have a lot of interpretations they have to say it's the same but it's not, it's a deception.

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I agree, though on the same token, as said before, not all aspects of where there is agreement is akin to "deception" anymore than it was for other Biblical Characters (including Jesus) saying the same thing as other camps. That's inherent in scripture and one would be deceiving themselves to think its not there when the factor has been noted by the early church and numerous scholars over the centuries.

They didn't know but they based it on their understanding. I saw that in my lifetime back to my country. I also saw Muslims interpret Jesus making Jihad (there are former Christians who converts to Islam). They interpret Jesus as saying He came w/ a "sword" and, as a Christian, you knew what He meant but Muslim interpret it that way because of they so called "context".

You can research it for sure and you can understand why they interpret it that way. It really looks like He really does encourage jihad.

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Researched that a good bit ago. Amazingly, its NO different than Christians with "Just War" theory and interpreting the OT/NT to mean that waging war against others as the the Jewish nation did in the Promise Land is what the Lord allows...Or do things such as what occurred with the Crusades, Manifest Destiny and other instances. Of course, this is done even though many others sharply disagree and feel that the interpretation is radically different with Jesus when it came to his views on the sword...for some interpret Jesus in the sense of supporting pacifism. And others have noted that objectively what's noted in Islam with jihad isn't radically different than what occurred with the Cannanites exterminations---even though others say that what the Lord had in mind was extermination for the sake of religious purposes as opposed to ethnic (as Ravi Zacharias noted best).

Either way, death occurred in the name of the Lord...and One has to be fair in addressing that point if trying to make it out as if the Quran supports violence whereas the Bible does not. My brothers/sisters in Christ have often discussed the issue--and in example, one of my dear/close brothers in the Lord sought to address the issue in a post he made entitled Islam and The Violence of the Old Testament | a view of the woods when it came to what he felt was a significant glossing over with the violent aspects of the Biblical text...and what appears, in his view, to be a bit of dishonesty in trying to focus upon those reading the Quran/reacting with violence and yet ignoring how the same has been done easily with the scriptures.


Scholar Philip Jenkins also sought to address the issue in-depth, as seen here in some of his articles:

• Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran? | WBUR & NPR
• Violent passages in the Koran and the Bible - The Boston Globe
• Armarium Magnum: The Lost History of Christianity by Philip Jenkins
• The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice - Google Books Result

Riz Khan - War and peace in Quran and Bible​

Of course, others may differ on the issue and hold to the thought that just because others acted violently in the name of Christ or the Bible doesn't mean that the scriptures support violence (As seen here)---but the debates are intriguing, to say the least. There've been other discussions on the boards that've gone in-depth with wrestling on the subject of violence--especially as it concerns those in support of things like the account of Channakuh. For more, one can go online/investigate the threads such as Chanakuh, Pacifism and Presentations of Christ as a Militant and Mel Gibsons New Biblical Movie (as it concerns the account of Judas Maccabeus and the violence many have issue with). Another thread worth considering for investigation was entitled Jews, Arab Christians or Muslim Arabs? . ...and others such as "Standing with Israel" /Obama calls for a return to pre-1967 Israel, which specifically deal with the dynamic of Zionism and mindsets that say its permissible for the Jewish people to be violent in the pursuit of controlling the Promise Land and how many (be it Jewish Christians, Gentile believers or Non-Christian Jews and others) have debated whether there's even a right to figthing based on the Torah. Of course, I'm aware based on your video channel on YouTube that you seem to feel that there's biblical justification for the land being taken by force by the Jews as you seem to feel its their right to do so...so we may have some further disagreement.


As it stands, it has always been interesting for me to see how many Muslims throughout the centuries have never even interpreted the Quran as supporting Jihad as a means to simply fight against whoever you wish to take out just because you deem them an enemy. Talking to plenty of them always makes a difference, seeing how they're not out to blow anyone up...nor are they thinking "You're an unbeliever, I must be VIOLENT to you." Many have noted that those who are "Islamaphobes" generally have a tendency to assume the worse about those who are Muslim...and this was certainly the case after 9/11 where many assumed RADICAL Islamic terrorists were the representation of all Muslims everywhere or throughout history. Not many were willing to either address or acknowledge the substantial amount of Muslims who either called it out---or were very grieved at what others were doing in the name of the Quran. And many have noted how anyone seriously studying the Quran will quickly note how many times Jihad was seen in the sense of fighting against oneself/simply engaging in "struggle"...just as it is for believers waging war against the flesh and arming themselves with the same mindset Christ had (I Peter 4, Galatians 5:16-25, etc). If aware of those who are Sufi Muslims, the issue becomes very pronounced seeing their desire for peaceful existence with others. For more on the issue, one can go either here , here , here, here, here, or here or here or here.



One can investigate the following as well:

• Christian History Corner: A Muslim Perspective on War |
• Waging Peace on Islam | Christianity Today | A Magazine of ...

In an article for the Barnabas Fund, Patrick Sookhdeo, director of London's Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, says, "There are clearly two strands in contemporary Islam: the peaceable and the war-like. Islam is not one or the other; it is both at the same time." For more, one can go here or here to Issues of Interpreting the Koran and Hadith

Another one is deception, it's ok to deceive in the bible and yet we, as a Christian, knew it's not the real interpretation but based on what they read in our bible that deceiving people for the sake of "gospel" is ok.

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Generally, as seen with others such as Rahab lying to save the spies in Joshua 10 and many other occurrences where that was done, its not a new thing within scripture that deception occurred in order to save saints. And many Christians have noted that for a long time, including Jewish culture. Of course, people can disagree...but often, there doesn't seem to be really much dealing with the text.

Check it out, you can see that yourself. You just need to research it and understand all these from people getting deceived. You might know all these but you just need to understand what's going on behind it, not just knowledge behind it.

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Checked it out a long time ago. Generally, from a fundamentalist perspective, it can be easy to assume its all about "deception"--but honestly, it can simply be choosing to ignore if not being able to realize how many things said against something may not be accurate when seeing how the early church didn't feel the same....and simply having convictions that it's "deception" isn't the same as having accuracy on what actually occurred. I'd say that you need to have better understanding on a host of issues rather than a review on it.

Sorry eh? I really disagree on it, even though I read all those interpretation and explanations you had, i see something else in there.

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Of course you see something else there..and I'm fine with disagreement, as I used to see the same way on many things as you may currently see it before actually studying. Everyone's different and must seek the Lord on the issue---but apart from that, its all good

tm2cruz said:

Hehe, i know. our dissagreement will never end for now i guess

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As the goal is never really trying to always find agreement as much as simple discussion/sharing of views--even if it means sharpening on certain points---its all good for me

For anyone interested,

Just came back from a conference that I was involved in last month..and was able to get ahold of some excellent information as it concerns ways to relate to those either in Eastern Contexts or Muslim cultures. It's entitled Miniskirts, Mothers & Muslims: A Christian Woman in a Muslim Land by Christine A. Mallouhi





Very powerful book, in regards to understanding many of the customs/ideas present within Eastern culture that many here are not familar with.....and definately something that can save a WORLD of trouble for anyone doing ministry. For review:

• the unhappiness of Western mothers: Christine Mallouhi's Miniskirts, Motherhood and Muslims

Praying it'd bless someone out there (and for more resources, one can go here). Shalom...