Protests against Wall Street spread across US

Incariol · Oct 7, 2011

Billnew said:
I don't see how we could prove this either way. I would assume since the ideaology is liberal, they either voted for Obama or some radical third party.

Hrm, I found out in about sixty seconds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/n...-till-whenever.html?_r=2&ref=occupywallstreet

Their politics zigzag wildly. An unemployed schoolteacher calls herself a fierce independent, while an employed teacher is a conservative. An anarchist photographer wants libertarianism to be reclaimed by the left.
“This is not about left versus right,” said the photographer, Christopher Walsh, 25, from Bushwick, Brooklyn. “It’s about hierarchy versus autonomy.”

Tracey E. Vitchers: Occupying--Not Rioting--Wall Street

To say that the demonstrators are only hippies and radicals pining for 1968 would be a gross misstatement. Rather, the demonstrators come from diverse backgrounds: environmentalists, feminists, former and current Wall Street bankers, traders and brokers, anarchists, socialists, members of the LGBTQ community, teachers, students, Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, people of color, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, retired NYPD police officers, members of the FDNY, journalists, musicians, photographers...the list could go on and on. Yet, the one thing that this varied group of people has in common is that they are tired of government corruption and the privileging of corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans by the American government.

TerranceL · Oct 7, 2011

Saving Hawaii said:
It doesn't take a professor to realize what these protests are about.

Given their lack of an actual coherent list of demands it might.

Steve Petersen · Oct 7, 2011

TerranceL said:
Given their lack of an actual coherent list of demands it might.

LOL!

ACougar · Oct 9, 2011

Separation of Corporation and State.

Yes, there is a lot more too it, however since you seem to need something succinct enough to put on a bumber sticker I thought I'd help out.

TerranceL said:
Given their lack of an actual coherent list of demands it might.

TerranceL · Oct 10, 2011

ACougar said:
Separation of Corporation and State.

Yes, there is a lot more too it, however since you seem to need something succinct enough to put on a bumber sticker I thought I'd help out.

Too bad the only people coming up with a coherent list of demands are people who aren't protesters.

Phileas · Oct 10, 2011

I thought these protests were about a small group of coke addled gambling degenerates within the financial sector who earn ridiculous sums of money while utterly failing in their jobs and yet get away with it due to rampant cronyism and corruption with their mates in the upper echelons. Meanwhile they threaten to drag the rest of the economy off a cliff unless the rest of the population carries the weight of their failure and throw hissy fits if anyone asks them to carry a little extra of the load themselves.

stelow · Oct 10, 2011

Phileas said:
I thought these protests were about a small group of coke addled gambling degenerates within the financial sector who earn ridiculous sums of money while utterly failing in their jobs and yet get away with it due to rampant cronyism and corruption with their mates in the upper echelons. Meanwhile they threaten to drag the rest of the economy off a cliff unless the rest of the population carries the weight of their failure and throw hissy fits if anyone asks them to carry a little extra of the load themselves.

JustMeSee · Oct 10, 2011

If this is going beyond simple protest, which it seems it may, hopefully they will cement a unified, short list message, appoint media spokes persons, and get some big league supporters. Right now, there seems to be a great spectrum of messages among participants.

Billnew · Oct 11, 2011

Incariol said:
Hrm, I found out in about sixty seconds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/n...-till-whenever.html?_r=2&ref=occupywallstreet

Tracey E. Vitchers: Occupying--Not Rioting--Wall Street

ok, I'll accept that there are some people in every group in the protests,
something the left does not believe about the tea(Taxed enough already) party movement.

But, I believe their presence is small.

Again I ask why picket and protest the people that enjoy what the goverment gives them, rather then the people that give it to them?

I guess conservatives did it wrong, I guess when we wanted welfare reform we should have picketed outside of Welfare offices and halfway houses?

I love how the left can't support their candidate so they attack some goat that their goverment feeds.

If you can't dazzle them with brillance(and good ideas), then baffle them with Bull.

I can't help but wonder if this is another Alinsky tactic.

"He was smart enough to avoid Marxist language in public.... Instead of calling for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie, Alinsky and his followers talk about 'confronting power.' Instead of advocating socialist revolution, they demand 'radical social change.' Instead of demanding attacks on capitalists, they go after 'targets' or 'enemies.'"

If your organization is small in numbers,” said Alinsky, “… conceal the members in the dark but raise a din and clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more than it does.”

Alinsky taught that in order to most effectively cast themselves as
defenders of moral principals and human decency, organizers must react with “shock, horror, and moral outrage” whenever their targeted enemy in any way misspeaks or fails to live up to his “book of rules.”

Class warfare is the only way for socialism/communism to make large strides against the republic, ie radical social change.

Confronting power when you want your person in power to thrive, create a power to challenge, and attack it viciously.

This movement protests the people in position to hire people for not ignoring every safeguard they have for their company and expand.
Which was the cause of the housing collapse, people(goverment) encouraged home loans to people that didn't meet the established requirements. So when they failed in mass numbers the economy collapsed.
Now they want world business leaders to do the same.

katautumn · Oct 15, 2011

Verticordious said:
The problem is that nothing on that list would help hard working people, it would only help lazy people.

I don't think asking that people make a basic living wage reflects laziness.

If you take care of yourself, for example, complete healthcare coverage is only $40-50 a month. Of course, that includes a several thousand dollar deductible, so you have to actually exercise some personal responsibility and not visit a doctor over every little thing, but you'll be covered in the event of any large medical expenses.

Not true. My husband is relatively healthy (besides high blood pressure), doesn't smoke, and our family insurance plan is over $200 a month through his job. Yes, it's a blessing we have it, but we still have to pay. And even people who take care of themselves get sick. I used to work for a man who lead a very healthy lifestyle and died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 61.

Socialized medicine just increases the cost of care for everyone, since there is no where near as much personal accountability.

I'm not a socialized medicine proponent, but could you please explain what accountability has to do with health care? Are you implying that people who make bad choices shouldn't have access to medical care or that only responsible people manage to stay out of the hospitals and doctor's offices?

Welfare encourages the poor to continue making bad moral choices,

My parents needed food stamps shortly after my dad's unemployment ran out. At 53 he is having a difficult time finding a job due to rampant age discrimination. He is the hardest working man I've ever known. Had to quit school at sixteen and get a job to support his mom, because his dad died when he was thirteen. He married my mom at twenty-two and I was born shortly thereafter. He worked two and three jobs at times to support us. He worked his way up to a production manager position and the company he worked for went out of business. My dad has never been without a job. How did being on food stamps cause my dad to make bad moral choices? He's faithful to my mother, he provides for his family, he loves babies and old ladies and baseball. He watched Fox News religiously. He's a Christian and reads his Bible and prays.

Giving that business more money so they can continue paying people to produce things consumers don't want to buy by taxing business who do produce things that consumers do want to buy does NOT help the economy. Most liberals don't seem to understand that.

I think most liberals understand the first part - that you can't simply hand over money to a failing business and expect magic to happen. That isn't the problem. The problem is you have the government bailing out these massive corporations and financial institutions that are supposed to be providing goods and services to ALL people, and yet they're sitting back making it even more difficult for the Average Joe to obtain said products and services, CEOs pleading the poor mouth, and laughing their way to the bank with their multi-million dollar paycheck. It's asinine, really.

ACougar · Oct 15, 2011

Why are you so certain I'm not a protester?

TerranceL said:
Too bad the only people coming up with a coherent list of demands are people who aren't protesters.

mpok1519 · Oct 15, 2011

TerranceL said:
Too bad the only people coming up with a coherent list of demands are people who aren't protesters.

Is the protest supposed to have a leader who gets to decide what everyone is protesting about? Perhaps everyone has their own reasons for protest. There is no real coherent reason for protesting.

Other than the fundamentals.

No jobs. Increasing cost of living but no increase in pay. Having no voice because a voice equals money.

TerranceL · Oct 15, 2011

ACougar said:
Why are you so certain I'm not a protester?

You must be the coherent one then. I watch enough of their videos to know they have no coherent line of protests.

TerranceL · Oct 15, 2011

mpok1519 said:
Is the protest supposed to have a leader who gets to decide what everyone is protesting about? Perhaps everyone has their own reasons for protest. There is no real coherent reason for protesting.

Other than the fundamentals.

No jobs. Increasing cost of living but no increase in pay. Having no voice because a voice equals money.

If they wish to be taken seriously it would be nice to have something like a coherent stand.

oldbetang · Oct 15, 2011

KatAutumn said:
I don't think asking that people make a basic living wage reflects laziness.

Not true. My husband is relatively healthy (besides high blood pressure), doesn't smoke, and our family insurance plan is over $200 a month through his job. Yes, it's a blessing we have it, but we still have to pay. And even people who take care of themselves get sick. I used to work for a man who lead a very healthy lifestyle and died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 61.

I'm not a socialized medicine proponent, but could you please explain what accountability has to do with health care? Are you implying that people who make bad choices shouldn't have access to medical care or that only responsible people manage to stay out of the hospitals and doctor's offices?

My parents needed food stamps shortly after my dad's unemployment ran out. At 53 he is having a difficult time finding a job due to rampant age discrimination. He is the hardest working man I've ever known. Had to quit school at sixteen and get a job to support his mom, because his dad died when he was thirteen. He married my mom at twenty-two and I was born shortly thereafter. He worked two and three jobs at times to support us. He worked his way up to a production manager position and the company he worked for went out of business. My dad has never been without a job. How did being on food stamps cause my dad to make bad moral choices? He's faithful to my mother, he provides for his family, he loves babies and old ladies and baseball. He watched Fox News religiously. He's a Christian and reads his Bible and prays.

I think most liberals understand the first part - that you can't simply hand over money to a failing business and expect magic to happen. That isn't the problem. The problem is you have the government bailing out these massive corporations and financial institutions that are supposed to be providing goods and services to ALL people, and yet they're sitting back making it even more difficult for the Average Joe to obtain said products and services, CEOs pleading the poor mouth, and laughing their way to the bank with their multi-million dollar paycheck. It's asinine, really.

Good post.

mpok1519 · Oct 15, 2011

TerranceL said:
If they wish to be taken seriously it would be nice to have something like a coherent stand.

they all probably have different ideas, but, the coherent stand is "more jobs, better pay". Of course.

TerranceL · Oct 15, 2011

mpok1519 said:
they all probably have different ideas, but, the coherent stand is "more jobs, better pay". Of course.

It'd help if they had a united stand. So far, not seeing one.

Incariol · Oct 15, 2011

TerranceL said:
It'd help if they had a united stand. So far, not seeing one.

Maybe you should pay closer attention then.

TerranceL · Oct 16, 2011

Incariol said:
Maybe you should pay closer attention then.

How close do you have to pay attention before "WE WANT JOBS!" and "Get Business out of government" and "FORGIVE OUR DEBT!" becomes the same thing?

mpok1519 · Oct 16, 2011

TerranceL said:
How close do you have to pay attention before "WE WANT JOBS!" and "Get Business out of government" and "FORGIVE OUR DEBT!" becomes the same thing?

And by missing the point, you fail to see the united stand.

Protests against Wall Street spread across US

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