Paul calls OTHERS saints. He calles HIMSELF a sinner - what more CHIEF among sinners. He calles them saints to edify them. He calls himself a sinner out of humility.
THAT is the point. HUMILITY!
THAT is the point. HUMILITY!
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Are you still a sinner?
- Thread starter Anthony
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Well then just be humble Br Max if it serve you well.
As for me I am rather proud of my relationship with Jesus and if He calls us saints neither will I deny Him.
Hopefully when the Lord yells 'Saints!" at least a few come running... I'll be there.
But umm maybe just for the sake of conversation you may want to read this again:
Ephesians 3:8 - To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
For if Paul did not consider himself a saint he couldn't have counted himself among them, even as the least...
Be blessed in Jesus Christ.
Walk humbly with your God.
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sbbqb7n16
Veteran - Blue Bible Dude
How prideful of David to write what he wrote in Psalm 23!! The audacity to say that the Lord was his Shepherd... that God would annoint his head with oil... how could he!? Come on man...
We aren't calling ourselves "saints" out of pride, but rather as a testimony to what our God can do to all who believe in His Son. It was the Lord who sanctified me and made me a saint.... see similarity to Psalm 23:1?? Any pride you see in that does not come from me...
We aren't calling ourselves "saints" out of pride, but rather as a testimony to what our God can do to all who believe in His Son. It was the Lord who sanctified me and made me a saint.... see similarity to Psalm 23:1?? Any pride you see in that does not come from me...
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sbbqb7n16
Veteran - Blue Bible Dude
Paul calls believers saints in 1 Cor 1:2... Let's use some logic here... if Paul writes to saints... but no one can claim to be a saint... then who was supposed to read the letter?? "It couldn't be for me! I cannot call myself a saint!" ...Paul calls himself a believer (Romans 1:1, Titus 1:1, among serevral others)... if you put 2 and 2 together... Paul calls himself a saint
Phillipians 1:21I take it that you never follow the advice of Galatians 14-16... That was Paul speaking.... Why would he write a letter to tell how good he was? We don't do that... we simply say the truth.. we are saints by the blood of Jesus Christ!
Phillipians 4:13How do you respond to Matthew 10:37? Would you then say that Jesus was prideful and greedy because He wanted all the love? Of course not! Matthew 11:27 Jesus says that ALL things have been committed to Him by the Father... Matthew 25:31-46 Jesus says that one day He will come in His full glory as a King! verse 34...Matthew 26:31 Jesus says that the "shepherd" was in reference to Him. Did He herd sheep? Of course not.. He was our priest! (Hebrew 4:15)....Matthew 12: 6 what do you say about that? Jesus is not being prideful but rather telling the truth! And so are we... I am a saint because of the purifying power of the blood of Christ!!
How do you interpret 1 Peter 2:9-10? Are you saying that if I agree with what Peter wrote here I am prideful??
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Br Max,
I believe sbbqb and live4Jesus have answered your question to me.
If we arent saints, then it means that we shldnt be reading the epistles addressed to the saints. that wld mean we have to tear out large chunks of our NT.
BTW the Bible calls us a royal priesthood -- ie king-priests
Hence, Lord of lords, King of kings. And it doesnt just mean earthly kings and lords but the saints too.
aint it wonderful what Jesus has done for us!
I believe sbbqb and live4Jesus have answered your question to me.
If we arent saints, then it means that we shldnt be reading the epistles addressed to the saints. that wld mean we have to tear out large chunks of our NT.
BTW the Bible calls us a royal priesthood -- ie king-priests
Hence, Lord of lords, King of kings. And it doesnt just mean earthly kings and lords but the saints too.
aint it wonderful what Jesus has done for us!
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Originally posted by Andrew
[B
aint it wonderful what Jesus has done for us!
yea... i was listening to the radio yesterday and a preacher guy tells this story...
There was a man once... He had attended a church most of life, the same one, and the pastor of that church, in his teaching, would now and then say "Well you can consider this or that piece of scripture as irrelevant, rip it out of your bible.., I will tell what this means..."
Anyway the day comes when the guy is old and dying, and at his bedside appears the pastor whose church he had attended all his life, and the dying guy say to the pastor "I feel so lost i am not sure what will happen to me.."
And the pastor guy says "Well just look in yur bible, lets read together'
And the dying guys says... "Pastor I attended your curch all my life, lots of pages have been ripped out of my bible. I started out young with faith in the word but overtime you destroyed it, I have no bible to read."
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Again, it is one thing for PAUL to call US saints, it is quite another for us to call OURSELVES saints. Is there any precedent in scriptures for a man calling himself a saint? No. Is there a precedent for a man calling OTHERS saints YES! You are welcome to call me a saint, but I will never say that I am one. To call oneself a saint, is a denial of humility. Scripture tells us that a humble and contrite heart God will not spurn, but he resists the proud.
A proud man speaks of anothers glory as if it were his own. Christ covers me in His blood and when God the father looks upon me he sees the righteousness of Christ. Does that make me righteous? No. It makes me COVERED by anothers righteousness.
A Christian is a little Christ very true. Does that mean I am identical to the True Christ in form, in substance, or in attribute? NO!! I am aspiring to BE LIKE Him, I am, if I have grown in His service, a mirror of His grace a mirror image is always imperfect.
You are welcome to call me a saint, but I will never say that I am one. To call oneself a saint, is a denial of humility. Scripture tells us that a humble and contrite heart God will not spurn, but he resists the proud. A proud man speaks of anothers glory as if it were his own. Christ covers me in His blood and when God the father looks upon me he sees the righteousness of Christ. Does that make me righteous? No. It makes me COVERED by anothers righteousness.
A Christian is a little Christ very true. Does that mean I am identical to the True Christ in form, in substance, or in attribute? NO!! I am aspiring to BE LIKE Him, I am, if I have grown in His service, a mirror of His grace a mirror image is always imperfect.
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sbbqb7n16
Veteran - Blue Bible Dude
hahhahaha apparently you don't know me... Hi my name is PAUL! I call us saints I call me a saint... la de da But apparently the Apostle Paul of the Bible is more cleansed than I am. He got more of the Blood of Jesus than I did, and made him more purified than me even though in God's eyes we are both perfect by the blood. Is he more of a Christian than you or me? James 2:4
Basically what your first sentence said was that... "Paul called me a saint, but I can't agree with him about it." Are you a saint? WAIT before you answer... remember that you have said that it isn't humble but rather prideful to say you have been sanctified by Christ... keep that in mind as you answer... Are you forgiven and sanctified by the blood fo Christ? REMEMBER if you say yes, then you are calling yourself a saint... but if you say no you deny Christ... what do you answer? Doesn't that same blood that covers you clean you as well?? Hebrews 10:11-23 esp verse 18
Dude I'm sorry that you don't realize that a saint is one who is forgiven. I hope you will understand that and not view it as prideful to call yourself a saint because of Jesus. I think we've argued this to death and so I'm not going to respond anymore and in so doing further this argument. I wish you well sir. Have a great day!
Basically what your first sentence said was that... "Paul called me a saint, but I can't agree with him about it." Are you a saint? WAIT before you answer... remember that you have said that it isn't humble but rather prideful to say you have been sanctified by Christ... keep that in mind as you answer... Are you forgiven and sanctified by the blood fo Christ? REMEMBER if you say yes, then you are calling yourself a saint... but if you say no you deny Christ... what do you answer? Doesn't that same blood that covers you clean you as well?? Hebrews 10:11-23 esp verse 18
Dude I'm sorry that you don't realize that a saint is one who is forgiven. I hope you will understand that and not view it as prideful to call yourself a saint because of Jesus. I think we've argued this to death and so I'm not going to respond anymore and in so doing further this argument. I wish you well sir. Have a great day!
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sbbqb: more? no - better? Thats another story. Some of us never grow out of spiritual infancy and the delusion of our own importance to the plans and heart of God. Others of us grow in to spiritual maturity and realize that God needs us like a dog needs fleas. His plans will move forward with or without us. Humility is the natural result of knowing that God would deign to use us despite His sufficiency to complete His works without us.
What I have said is this - Paul may call me a saint, but I am unworthy of claiming that title for myself. I would not dare to presume upon the grace of the Lord by saying I am WORTHY in His eyes. Its a PRIDE/HUMILITY issue. in which camp would you rest? The camp of the proud which God resists, or the camp of the humble heart which God will never spurn? You speak of every work as a completed act in denial of what Scripture states - and what the LORD Himself states in the scriptures.
You are forgetting that PERSEVERANCE is also required of a Christian walk. You also forget that a Christian walk is a GROWING process. Christ did not spring from the womb full grown and preaching, and we are no better than he. We too much grow in the Lord.
You stance is that of the typical teenager. I know all I need to know, Im grown - hear me roar.
What I have said is this - Paul may call me a saint, but I am unworthy of claiming that title for myself. I would not dare to presume upon the grace of the Lord by saying I am WORTHY in His eyes. Its a PRIDE/HUMILITY issue.
in which camp would you rest? The camp of the proud which God resists, or the camp of the humble heart which God will never spurn? You speak of every work as a completed act in denial of what Scripture states - and what the LORD Himself states in the scriptures. You are forgetting that PERSEVERANCE is also required of a Christian walk. You also forget that a Christian walk is a GROWING process. Christ did not spring from the womb full grown and preaching, and we are no better than he. We too much grow in the Lord.
You stance is that of the typical teenager. I know all I need to know, Im grown - hear me roar.
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Romans 3:23 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
I would like to know who the 9 people were that voted no.
The only sinless person that I know is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Anyone who can say they don't sin is a liar. Everyone has thoughts that aren't nice, everyone says or does something at one time or another to hurt someone's feelings, everyone tells a white lie sometimes. Remember the last time you told your wife or mother she looked nice when she didn't?? That was a white lie and a sin. Harmless? Yes, but still a sin. We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God...that is why we needed a redeemer...Thank You Jesus.
I would like to know who the 9 people were that voted no.
The only sinless person that I know is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Anyone who can say they don't sin is a liar. Everyone has thoughts that aren't nice, everyone says or does something at one time or another to hurt someone's feelings, everyone tells a white lie sometimes. Remember the last time you told your wife or mother she looked nice when she didn't?? That was a white lie and a sin. Harmless? Yes, but still a sin. We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God...that is why we needed a redeemer...Thank You Jesus.
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his-girl,
how is it you ignore the second phrase of the same verse? Justified freely -- IOW just-as-if never sinned.
No one is saying that a Christian no longer ever sins. but what we are interested in is our STANDING b4 God, not man (who cares?).
As far as God is concerned, we are no longer sinners becos we have been made the righteousness OF GOD HIMSELF IN CHRIST!!! (cant you take that?) IOW God loves us the same way he loves Jesus now that we are hidden in Christ.
yes we still stumble and fall (but we fall IN Christ), but that doesnt reverse the NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST born again miracle and transform us back into pagan sinners of the world.
You'll never find Paul or Peter addressing the brethren in the church as "sinners". He may address their sins but he still calls them brethren, beloved, saints etc.
If the Bible calls me a saint, guess what? I believe it and say Yes and Amen! That to me is more humble and modest (cos you are honoring Christ's work for you) than trying to say "well, er no, i dont deserve it blah blah blah."
how is it you ignore the second phrase of the same verse? Justified freely -- IOW just-as-if never sinned.
No one is saying that a Christian no longer ever sins. but what we are interested in is our STANDING b4 God, not man (who cares?).
As far as God is concerned, we are no longer sinners becos we have been made the righteousness OF GOD HIMSELF IN CHRIST!!! (cant you take that?) IOW God loves us the same way he loves Jesus now that we are hidden in Christ.
yes we still stumble and fall (but we fall IN Christ), but that doesnt reverse the NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST born again miracle and transform us back into pagan sinners of the world.
You'll never find Paul or Peter addressing the brethren in the church as "sinners". He may address their sins but he still calls them brethren, beloved, saints etc.
If the Bible calls me a saint, guess what? I believe it and say Yes and Amen! That to me is more humble and modest (cos you are honoring Christ's work for you) than trying to say "well, er no, i dont deserve it blah blah blah."
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so you think Christ only swept your sins under some carpet? you mean to tell me Christians enter heaven with all their sins hidden inside a trenchcoat of righteousness?
no i simply believe God when he says my sins were "taken away", I'm washed whiter than snow, sins forgotten & remembered no more, a NEW creature in Christ!
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No way! It's just that we are forgiven for our past transgressions and expected to live up to a new standard. However, we are only human.
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andrew: No I'm saying the attonment of Christ is not MAGIC. The sacrifice of Christ is what gainst us enterance into heaven. It is the sacrifice of Christ alone which is pealsing to God the Father. I have no righteousness in myself. I have only the righteousness of Christ. His is superimposed over me so that when the father looks upon me - weak and sinful vessel - He does not see me, but His Son.
Luke 18
9He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves and were confident that they were righteous [that they were upright and in right standing with God] and scorned and made nothing of all the rest of men:
10Two men went up into the temple [[1] enclosure] to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11The Pharisee [2] took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men--extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers--or even like this tax collector here.
12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.
13But the tax collector, [merely] standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but kept striking his breast, saying, O God, be favorable (be gracious, be merciful) to me, the [3] especially wicked sinner that I am!
14I tell you, this man went down to his home justified (forgiven and made upright and in right standing with God), rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 18
9He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves and were confident that they were righteous [that they were upright and in right standing with God] and scorned and made nothing of all the rest of men:
10Two men went up into the temple [[1] enclosure] to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11The Pharisee [2] took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men--extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers--or even like this tax collector here.
12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.
13But the tax collector, [merely] standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but kept striking his breast, saying, O God, be favorable (be gracious, be merciful) to me, the [3] especially wicked sinner that I am!
14I tell you, this man went down to his home justified (forgiven and made upright and in right standing with God), rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.
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ok fully agree.
When Christ died for you 2000 years ago, were your sins past or future? of cse future! So its totally illogical to say that Christ died only for your past sins.
Lets say you were born again in 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm. Are you then telling me that when Christ hung on the cross 2000 yrs ago carrying your sins, he only carried those from the time you were born to 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm???
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Terri
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Originally posted by Andrew
ok fully agree.
When Christ died for you 2000 years ago, were your sins past or future? of cse future! So its totally illogical to say that Christ died only for your past sins.
Lets say you were born again in 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm. Are you then telling me that when Christ hung on the cross 2000 yrs ago carrying your sins, he only carried those from the time you were born to 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm???
Wow Andrew!! A most excellent point!!
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Yes - born into it. You'll be a sinner the rest of your human life. Just because you may not sin, doesn't make you free from being a sinner.
Living in this world we do, it's impossible to live completely free of wandering and trying to selfishly fulfill some fancy. Through Christ I've found that accepting my life as a sinner and a truly loving Him, gives me peace and unquestionable understanding that His plan is working and perfec. The end result is eternal life next to Him - awesome.
I live a Christian life, but sometimes my finances or the occasional 'I'm too tired to read' junk satisfies the moment and that's not good enough. Your personal sacrifice for God 1st is the only way and completely fulfilling.
Living in this world we do, it's impossible to live completely free of wandering and trying to selfishly fulfill some fancy. Through Christ I've found that accepting my life as a sinner and a truly loving Him, gives me peace and unquestionable understanding that His plan is working and perfec. The end result is eternal life next to Him - awesome.
I live a Christian life, but sometimes my finances or the occasional 'I'm too tired to read' junk satisfies the moment and that's not good enough. Your personal sacrifice for God 1st is the only way and completely fulfilling.
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Originally posted by Andrew
ok fully agree.
When Christ died for you 2000 years ago, were your sins past or future? of cse future! So its totally illogical to say that Christ died only for your past sins.
Lets say you were born again in 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm. Are you then telling me that when Christ hung on the cross 2000 yrs ago carrying your sins, he only carried those from the time you were born to 3 Jan 2003, 1 pm???
Forgiveness is available to all for ALL of their sins. All you have to do is repent
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I never answered the poll as there is no option given that I can apply to myself. But I can stand up and with truth say that I am a sinner. I feel guilty at times and on reflection that I do sin. I hope it won't always be that way and find salvation in God's mercy should I have the chance. But that is between God and me.
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