Should a G.P or nurse mention Jesus when dealing with a patient?

theFijian · Sep 29, 2011

Celtic D said:
Fortunately I have never had a stay in hospital, but if I did I would be more than happy for you to be my nurse

If I start a conversation with "you" it is because I am interested in what you have to say - as you say nursing and other caring professions are not just about cold clinical things, they are about the whole being, and that in some cases may include a person's spirituality if the occassion arises - I'm not for ramming religion down someone's throat, but if the patient raises it first I see no issue if both parties are concenting to the discussion / prayer.

Absolutely

non-religious · Sep 29, 2011

[theFijian]No really, they mustn't! This is the fundamental hypocrisy at the heart of secularism. Secularists believe that Christians (and people of other religions) when they step out of their private life into public life (through work or however they interact with wider society) then they must leave behind all their deeply held convictions, views and beliefs at their front door as though somehow at some deep subconcious level they are able to behave in ways which bypass those convictions, views and beliefs which they hold. Secularists however don't have to try and engage in such cognitive dissonance they get to force their deeply held convictions, beliefs and views on everyone else! This is the bias at the heart of secularism and you unfortunately have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

Chritians, leave you personality at the door!

Being that I am "outside of the workplace" I think I'm allowed to give this a hearty Amen..

Alexander Nevsky · Sep 29, 2011

Catherineanne said:
That is complete and utter nonsense. Depression takes away meaning; it is not lack of meaning that causes depression.

I have a mental illness, caused by inappropriate behaviour from my parents onwards, through many, many years. I am not how God made me; I am emotionally damaged by those who ought to have known better. I have never been without God, or anything remotely Godless; it is he who keeps me going in a very difficult situation.

Really, your comment is so misinformed words fail me in communicating just how wrong it is.

First of all I wrote about something for which I believe is the case, NOT always, but all too often in our days. I was speaking mainly about depression and not of course about diseases such as schizophrenia, psychoses and so on (things which are apparently inherited). I believe that depression in most cases is not inherited. One can become depressed for so many reasons, nobody would argue against that. What I was trying to say is that living in a Godless environment (not necessarily to do with being yourself a believer or not) multiplies your chances of getting depressed. Depression can take away meaning to live. But it can be the other way round, couldnt it?

Judy02 · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
I can only speak from my personal experience. I have never in approx ten years of nursing, ever, had a situation where my conversation, all be it brief, has crossed any boundary or negatively impacted upon patients I have cared for. As a nurse it is hard enough finding the time to converse with patients, but when a patient has happily engaged in a conversation with me about their day, their brother, their job or their faith, I have listened and responded with the up most respect and dignity. I'm not there to preach or convert anyone (not sure why I am even having to justify that considering the posts I have displayed thus far) and I'm extremely happy with both my conduct and professionalism (thank you very much!!!). As are the patients, fellow nurses and everyone I come into contact with. I couldn't care less if you (Catherineanne) have a hard time both understanding and appreciating that, but it is what it is.

This is why I still occasionally nurse, even though i have a successful career in property. I am one of the few nurses who takes the time to communicate with their patients and not treat them as some "thing" to just dispense medication to or clean. Having said that, I appreciate your input, but am sorry you feel the way you do

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

I am particularly interested in what medical professionals who are Christians have to say on this matter, simply because they know the healthcare profession pretty well on a day to day basis and what these jobs are like. You sound like a very sincere and caring person in regards to your nursing profession, and from what you've said, I don't think the way you have shared your faith has not been abused or forced. Good for you on making some time to talk to your patients, as I know nurses myself I have heard far too well how overstretched the NHS is, and the very limited time you nurses have! Sometimes, you feel it's a stretch just to just treat them medically with their symptoms, so good for you

I'd feel lucky to have you as my nurse as well.

I like what Celtic said to (forgotton to quote her) on how healthcare is about "treating the whole person, not just the symptoms", I might have paraphrased what she said somewhat there, but think that's what she was saying. I agree with that, and that is a popular belief nowadays. As advanced and as intelligent as many wonderful healthcare staff are out there, I don't believe western medicine has all the answers and fixes to every illness out there (they're only human after all!

) and I have heard of other people getting better with alternative treatments, but if treating a sick person is about the "whole person" and not just treating or masking immediate symptoms, then I wonder why some people would shy away from the spiritual aspect?

Granted, I do think "sharing your faith" in the healthcare setting can be abused, and people can go about it in a very wrong way, and I do think personally, there should still be some level of accountability with healthcare staff and a patients right to complain, but I'm sceptical that it's always wrong to share your faith, particularly in the examples you gave. But I don't know, I tend to look at the whole big picture, and if some people were given free access to just talk about God all the time, without doing anything to treat the patient (like the diabetes example I gave earlier

) it's the beginning of a very slippery slope, and lack of decency and professionalism in my view. I still think doctors need to treat people in ways they have been medically trained to in re to various different medical conditions, and be doctors and not just see a ward as some "conversion market" and I think if a patient expresses they do not wish to discuss their faith and are not comfortable in doing so, then I absolutely believe that should be respected. I do think someone who still pushes it after then should face disciplinary action and are guilty of harrassment. I will add though, that I don't think you personally have come across in a negative way.

I'm not sure staff should be banned from sharing their faith, but I think it needs to be monitored on how "far" they take it. Some people I think just lack the people skills to know how to relate to others with their faith, and they just end up doing more damage I think. I think you could apply that to anyone, but I think it could be a lot more damaging in a medical setting - patients are just in a more vulnerable place emotionally usually. I don't think this issue is so black and white really, of "yes they can share their faith" and "no they can't," and feel like such responses are rather overly simplistic and not well thought out. It's a complex topic.

I'm sorry the thread has taken the direction it has though with personal attacks

It would have been better if this had been less heated, but never mind.

Oh, and sorry I ended up writing an essay

I'm not usually very good at quick, black and white answers when it comes to a lot of contentious issues.

non-religious · Sep 29, 2011

Judy02 said:
Judy02 said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts I am particularly interested in what medical professionals who are Christians have to say on this matter, simply because they know the healthcare profession pretty well on a day to day basis and what these jobs are like. You sound like a very sincere and caring person in regards to your nursing profession, and from what you've said, I don't think the way you have shared your faith has not been abused or forced. Good for you on making some time to talk to your patients, as I know nurses myself I have heard far too well how overstretched the NHS is, and the very limited time you nurses have! Sometimes, you feel it's a stretch just to just treat them medically with their symptoms, so good for you I'd feel lucky to have you as my nurse as well.

I like what Celtic said to (forgotton to quote her) on how healthcare is about "treating the whole person, not just the symptoms", I might have paraphrased what she said somewhat there, but think that's what she was saying. I agree with that, and that is a popular belief nowadays. As advanced and as intelligent as many wonderful healthcare staff are out there, I don't believe western medicine has all the answers and fixes to every illness out there (they're only human after all! ) and I have heard of other people getting better with alternative treatments, but if treating a sick person is about the "whole person" and not just treating or masking immediate symptoms, then I wonder why some people would shy away from the spiritual aspect?

Granted, I do think "sharing your faith" in the healthcare setting can be abused, and people can go about it in a very wrong way, and I do think personally, there should still be some level of accountability with healthcare staff and a patients right to complain, but I'm sceptical that it's always wrong to share your faith, particularly in the examples you gave. But I don't know, I tend to look at the whole big picture, and if some people were given free access to just talk about God all the time, without doing anything to treat the patient (like the diabetes example I gave earlier ) it's the beginning of a very slippery slope, and lack of decency and professionalism in my view. I still think doctors need to treat people in ways they have been medically trained to in re to various different medical conditions, and be doctors and not just see a ward as some "conversion market" and I think if a patient expresses they do not wish to discuss their faith and are not comfortable in doing so, then I absolutely believe that should be respected. I do think someone who still pushes it after then should face disciplinary action and are guilty of harrassment. I will add though, that I don't think you personally have come across in a negative way.

I'm not sure staff should be banned from sharing their faith, but I think it needs to be monitored on how "far" they take it. Some people I think just lack the people skills to know how to relate to others with their faith, and they just end up doing more damage I think. I think you could apply that to anyone, but I think it could be a lot more damaging in a medical setting - patients are just in a more vulnerable place emotionally usually. I don't think this issue i so black and white really, of "yes they can share their faith" and "no they can't," and feel like such responses are rather overly simplistic and not well thought out. It's a complex topic.

I'm sorry the thread has taken the direction it has though with personal attacks It would have been better if this had been less heated, but never mind.

Oh, and sorry I ended up writing an essay I'm not usually very good at quick, black and white answers when it comes to a lot of contentious issues.

Click to expand...

Summed up perfectly, fantastic points

I should just add that the example I gave is a very rare occurance. I have had all manner of conversations, but I am very careful and mindful of the fact that what I communicate to anyone at work is done so in a way so as not to offend, anger or discourage. We have so little time that most conversations are literally a couple of minutes here or there. When I spoke to the patient who was reading the book, I was on a night shift and it was a very quiet night. This was an individual who strongly believed in the power of prayer. My remark re "I'll say a prayer for her" was taken by her as a sincere gesture with not even a trace of offence or questioning.

I'm a relatively intelligent guy, I knew in that specific instance my offer was genuine and appreciated, but I absolutely take on board what you, Catherineanne and others have said. I just think sometimes a little humanity and commonsense goes a long way, even in the field of nursing

Catherineanne · Sep 29, 2011

Judy02 said:
I'm not sure staff should be banned from sharing their faith, but I think it needs to be monitored on how "far" they take it.

There is no need to ban anything. Professional standards exist, and all that is needed is for them to be maintained. These standards are the same for everyone. If they happen to be abused, then that is an abuse, and it is not a personal attack to say so. Professionals have a duty to maintain professional standards, which includes boundaries. It is as simple as that.

This is not personal. Nothing that a nurse does, or that is done to her in the course of her work, is personal. It is business.

Frankly, that is the whole point. I don't want to hear about faith from a doctor, a dentist, an accountant, a lawyer or any other professional in the course of their professional work because that is an abuse of them having me in their space. If any of my friends happen to be members of these professions, and talk to me as a friend, they can talk about anything they like. But as professionals, they can't.

I would say to any nurse, if you wouldn't walk into an old lady's house, into her bedroom, start chatting to her about her bedside reading and offer to pray for her, then why on earth think it is ok when that same old lady is out of her own home and happens to be in a hospital ward, feeling vulnerable? By all means do what is appropriate as a nurse; offer reassurance and company. But never for one moment step outside the protection of your professional role, because without that protection you become far too vulnerable yourself to accusations of improper behaviour.

If an old lady in hospital wants spiritual support, the appropriate person to offer that is the Chaplain, because that is his professional role, and by speaking to her of God he does not step outside it. If you don't want the Chaplain to start handing out medicines when he 'feels' like it, then don't even think about talking about God to patients.

Catherineanne · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
My remark re "I'll say a prayer for her" was taken by her as a sincere gesture with not even a trace of offence or questioning.

The point is not how she took it, or even what she did or did not believe, but whether it was appropriate. In my opinion you are fortunate to have got away with this, but in another case you may not be so lucky, so I would seriously advise caution.

I very much fear that there would be no professional defence if a complaint of inappropriate behaviour were brought as a result of someone hearing what you said and taking exception to it.

I'm a relatively intelligent guy, I knew in that specific instance my offer was genuine and appreciated, but I absolutely take on board what you, Catherineanne and others have said. I just think sometimes a little humanity and commonsense goes a long way, even in the field of nursing

Humanity is part of nursing. Discussing personal views is not, whether of faith, politics or any other serious subject. Pretty well the only safe topic is the weather, on which professionals may express an opinion if they like, without fear of censure.

This is not a matter of viewpoint. Professional standards are there to protect the nursing staff, and in trying to explain them funnily enough I am doing the same. Those who think this is an attack really have it the wrong way round.

I would expect that nursing training would explain the difference clearly enough.

Catherineanne · Sep 29, 2011

Alexander Nevsky said:
First of all I wrote about something for which I believe is the case, NOT always, but all too often in our days. I was speaking mainly about depression and not of course about diseases such as schizophrenia, psychoses and so on (things which are apparently inherited). I believe that depression in most cases is not inherited. One can become depressed for so many reasons, nobody would argue against that. What I was trying to say is that living in a Godless environment (not necessarily to do with being yourself a believer or not) multiplies your chances of getting depressed. Depression can take away meaning to live. But it can be the other way round, couldnt it?

I am afraid you are simply misinformed. It looks as if you are making all of this up for yourself, rather than taking any notice of what psychiatry has to say about it.

Depression is highly complex, and has lots of contributory factors. It is far too simplistic to say that it is caused by 'living in a Godless environment', whatever that may be.

non-religious · Sep 29, 2011

[Catherineanne;]
This is not personal. Nothing that a nurse does, or that is done to her in the course of her work, is personal. It is business.

I can not believe someone so clearly intelligent as your are actually believes this....

I'm sorry (actually I'm very much not) but caring for sick people is not a business to fronline NHS staff. It may be a business to those funding the hospitals, or those private cleaning contractors, or the matrons who have to help balance the books, but in no way is it a business for those who are hands on day to day.

How on earth do you expect us nurses to do the job we do (equally applicable to police officers, teachers, social workers etc...) without some aspect of who we are, coming into play? I go back to my robots on the ward remark. It is ridiculously unrealistic to expect healthcare professionals to leave their humanity at home. When you go into hospital, I hate to say it because I love the NHS, but you are going to see both good and bad nurses. You are going to encounter something that may upset or offend you. The reason is simply because nurses cannot and do not come through the main entrance transformed into some drone that is all about "business, nothing personal."

Do you know who uses that mantra? Hitmen.....Cold, callous individuals who forget about the bigger picture. To bring that kind of agenda into a hospital ward would really be the end of nursing as we know it. I'm stunned you see nurses in such a light..

Catherineanne · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
Being that I am "outside of the workplace" I think I'm allowed to give this a hearty Amen..

Indeed so. You are not here as a nurse, but as a fellow Christian. As such you can say what you like to whom you like about your faith, and the constraint is reversed. In other words, you can't offer professional advice, (other than 'see a doctor', of course), but you can talk about your faith.

Catherineanne · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
I can not believe someone so clearly intelligent as your are actually believes this....

I'm sorry (actually I'm very much not) but caring for sick people is not a business to fronline NHS staff. It may be a business to those funding the hospitals, or those private cleaning contractors, or the matrons who have to help balance the books, but in no way is it a business for those who are hands on day to day.

How on earth do you expect us nurses to do the job we do (equally applicable to police officers, teachers, social workers etc...) without some aspect of who we are, coming into play? I go back to my robots on the ward remark. It is ridiculously unrealistic to expect healthcare professionals to leave their humanity at home. When you go into hospital, I hate to say it because I love the NHS, but you are going to see both good and bad nurses. You are going to encounter something that may upset or offend you. The reason is simply because nurses cannot and do not come through the main entrance transformed into some drone that is all about "business, nothing personal."

Do you know who uses that mantra? Hitmen.....Cold, callous individuals who forget about the bigger picture. To bring that kind of agenda into a hospital ward would really be the end of nursing as we know it. I'm stunned you see nurses in such a light..

You are tilting at windmills.

Have fun with that.

Meanwhile, nursing is a profession, and is conducted by professionals. As such they have to maintain professional standards. Humanity is fine, but not at the expense of those standards. If nurses (or doctors, dentists, opthalmologists etc) cannot set aside their own personal prejudices, likes, dislikes and beliefs for the sake of the patients then they will not last long in their chosen career, and would be best choosing one which allows more personal freedom. Politician, perhaps.

non-religious · Sep 29, 2011

[Catherineanne]You are tilting at windmills.

Have fun with that.

Meanwhile, nursing is a profession, and is conducted by professionals. As such they have maintain professional standards. Humanity is fine, but not at the expense of those standards. If nurses (or doctors, dentists, opthalmologists etc) cannot set aside their own personal prejudices, likes, dislikes and beliefs for the sake of the patients then they will not last long in their chosen career, and would be best choosing one which allows more personal freedom.

Here's the irony...

I'm getting a lecture from an armchair critic, who as far as I'm aware, has no experience of frontline nursing telling me about professionalism...

I'll tell you what I will do. I will happily take my measured, caring and considerate approach to nursing and you can continue to live in a fairytale land when mechanical robots are dispensing meds and simply saying "hello" and "goodbye" to their patients. My record in healthcare completely contradicts everything you have said. My record, which I notice you conveniently overlook, utterly destroys your cold and callous view of nursing. Tilting at windmills? Me

I have nothing left to say to you, but thanks for proving my point about being "harsh."

non-religious · Sep 29, 2011

Just to add.. One can be both professional and personal at the same time. Who on earth operates without both? :doh:

Alexander Nevsky · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
Just to add.. One can be both professional and personal at the same time. Who on earth operates without both?

That is so true!

Judy02 · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
Just to add.. One can be both professional and personal at the same time. Who on earth operates without both?

Yeah, agreed.

Celtic D · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
Just to add.. One can be both professional and personal at the same time. Who on earth operates without both?

Agreement here also

Genersis · Sep 29, 2011

non-religious said:
This has nothing to do with my specific question. I'm not talking about how faith can/cannot impact upon illness. That's an entirely different debate..

What did i say? That i think it's INAPPROPRIATE to share you religion in the examples i gave.
Which is what your question is about the last time i checked.

What i said wasn't anything to do with whether spiritual healing works.

Not sure any doctor has actually stated that it is their duty to share their faith with a patient. It seems more likely that said doctor made a single error of judgement and the patient, well within their rights, made a complaint..

Just going by the guys quotes in this story:

itv.com/news/doctor-in-religion-probe21424
(Can't post links yet)

Mr Ozin told the committee of an interview Dr Scott gave to BBC Radio 5 Live with Nicky Campbell on May 24 this year.

Campbell put it to him that, during the course of the conversation, Dr Scott was "trying to convince him that your faith may be better..."

Dr Scott replied: "Yeah, my actual words were 'You might find Christianity offers you something more than your current faith does in this situation'."

Campbell then said: "What is it that Jesus could have offered him more than his own faith?"

Dr Scott replied: "He had an awful lot of problems, and the thing to know, that God loves us and Jesus loves us and you can deal with stuff in the past, in terms of hurt or guilt or fear of failure, stuff you can only really find through Christianity.

"I do offer it (faith) in situations like this."

Patient A did not take up the offer, Mr Ozin said.

He continued: "It is a matter of record that Patient A subsequently complained about Dr Scott and said he was very upset about the consultation and he was offended by what he saw as the belittling of his own religion.

Sounds to me like he was at least brass in offering his religion.

I swear i saw him say somewhere that it was his duty to offer his religion to help his patients somewhere on a news report from ITV. But i can't find it.

I assume this is the story that was the inspiration for this thread?

Again, not so sure this is what happened or happens. This would suggest that are some Christian fundamentalist consultants looking for every opportunity to preach to their sick patients. Doesn't happen....

I'm not sure if it happens either, But it isn't impossible is it? And it shouldn't be allowed, in my opinion.

Hope that clears things up.

.Iona. · Oct 1, 2011

I was always taught that faith is not something to bring when when dealing with patients. If that patients asked, then perhaps it is okay, but otherwise I think it is inappropriate.

Love_Jesus · Oct 3, 2011

hey,

I have ponderd a lot over this and I thought I would just give my opinion...

2 years ago My mother died of Lwukemia (AML) At the time I was a sikh.
I didnt give my life to Jesus untill after I had lost my mother.

Mun was a devote sikh women all of her life... a very spiritual lady. She did mention that her nurse said something about reading the bible when she was unwell(the nurse) I didnt think anything of it.
I often find my self thinking anout this nurse of my mothers and I hope and pray she told my mother about Jesus and what he ment to her.. then maybe my mother may have cried out to Jesus when she was in ciritical condition..

Sometimes I feel like going to the hospital just to ask the nurse If she gave my mother the gospel...I'm too scared to go to the hospital and ask just in case she says no.

I would love it if she (the nurse) spoke to my mother about Jesus, Jesus said no one comes to the father but through me.. I dont know where my mother is rite now. All I know is if I was a nurse I would want to at least save one soul.

This is only my opinion. I keep picturing the horror on my mothers face when she was in and out of a coma. she looked so frightend.

I just wish she could have been looking at Jesus and smiling instead of looking frightend of who knows what.

So in answer to this Thread Question... Yes

Thanks for reading

welshman · Oct 3, 2011

Absolutely. Spot. On.
:bow:

Love_Jesus said:
hey,

I have ponderd a lot over this and I thought I would just give my opinion...

2 years ago My mother died of Lwukemia (AML) At the time I was a sikh.
I didnt give my life to Jesus untill after I had lost my mother.

Mun was a devote sikh women all of her life... a very spiritual lady. She did mention that her nurse said something about reading the bible when she was unwell(the nurse) I didnt think anything of it.
I often find my self thinking anout this nurse of my mothers and I hope and pray she told my mother about Jesus and what he ment to her.. then maybe my mother may have cried out to Jesus when she was in ciritical condition..

Sometimes I feel like going to the hospital just to ask the nurse If she gave my mother the gospel...I'm too scared to go to the hospital and ask just in case she says no.

I would love it if she (the nurse) spoke to my mother about Jesus, Jesus said no one comes to the father but through me.. I dont know where my mother is rite now. All I know is if I was a nurse I would want to at least save one soul.

This is only my opinion. I keep picturing the horror on my mothers face when she was in and out of a coma. she looked so frightend.

I just wish she could have been looking at Jesus and smiling instead of looking frightend of who knows what.

So in answer to this Thread Question... Yes

Thanks for reading

Should a G.P or nurse mention Jesus when dealing with a patient?

Well-Known Member

Veteran

friend of the Huns

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Veteran

friend of the Huns

Well-Known Member

Celtic D

Guest

Person of Disinterest

I love Jesus!

Allways seeking His will

Regular Member

Similar threads