Like Father, Like Son

gideon army

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"Name it and claim it" is not heretical. We can speak and claim the promises of God. I am not talking about making millions, or getting rich. I am talking about having a job. I am not talking about getting a new car - I am talking about having the funds to fix my car to keep it running. I need a job and a vehicle in order to live - there are some things we do need that are of this world in order to survive. We are to seek God first and these things will be added unto us but I think He likes us coming to him and asking for the things we need. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thansgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Philippians 4:6

Yo Sista ;)

Sorry to disappoint you but have got Goodnews for you. Jesus always supersede our expactations of HIM, shall give you Scriptures to prove my point:-

Matt 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."

Matt 8:3 Then Jesus put out [His] hand and touched him, saying, "I am willing; be cleansed." Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Leprosy in Jesus's time & now is the same, it's contagious & no one would wanna touch a leper. To compound matters, under LAW (Lev 13) it's against the LAW to touch a leper, Jesus could heal the leper by speaking The Word but NO, Jesus Extended His hand to touch the leper!

Imagine not being able to touch one loved ones? Being Shunned his whole life. But Jesus exceeded the leper expectation right?

John 2:10 And he said to him, "Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the [guests] have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!"

Now, GOOD Wine is EXPENSIVE Wine - be it in Jesus's time or now right? Jesus only needed to make water turn into wine & it'll be a miracle already right since it's an utter embarrassment for the groom & bride to have wine running out in the midst oof their wedding celebration correct?

However, did Jesus not exceeds everybody expectation in giving them very GOOD Wine? Btw, does this not also speaks of prosperity? ;)

Luke 5:6 And when they had done this, they caught a great number of fish, and their net was breaking.

Luke 5:7 So they signaled to [their] partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink.


Wow, whole night caught NOTHING & in Jesus's Presence, peter caught net breaking & BOATS Sinking load of fishes!

Now, Christianity in the form of RELIGION will tell you that prosperity are bad & ungodly so forth, however this isn't what what Bible says ;)

Believe all will agree that Jesus need not PROSPER peter with a boatS sinking load of fishes right? ACCORDING to CHIRITIANITY as a REGIGION- they'll try to inoculate this belief that Jesus wants you to be poor or just have enough but HEH Sista, what do you bible says? ;)
 
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thesunisout

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Let's see what God is saying about prosperity in scripture:


Luke 5:4-11

When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”

Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”

Simon was searching for fish, because his livelyhood depended on it. He depended on the things of this world to survive. He came back empty handed, like the world often leaves you..but the Father was drawing Simon near when Jesus instructed him to try again.

When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.

Simon, because he did what the Lord told him to do, found the biggest haul of his life.

When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken, and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners.

Simon, now realizing that He stood before the Messiah, forgot all about the fish. His attention was not on the things of this world, but the things of God, and his spiritual convinctions. His first response was to admit his sin before a Holy God.

Then Jesus said to Simon, “Don’t be afraid; from now on you will catch men.” So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.

Jesus reassured Simon not to fear, and then gave him a new livelyhood, a spiritual livelyhood. He took Simon out of the world, and from then on Simon no longer depended on the things in the world, but on the things of God, and His Kingdom. He left everything worldly behind and followed the Lord to salvation.

Matthew 16:24

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

That is what scripture says about your worldly prosperity teaching. It says it is meaningless. It says we are to leave everything behind and follow the Lord. The fish sat on the dock for the unsaved to use; it was no longer of any concern to Simon. He was remade at that moment, and his treasure was now in Heaven, along with his heart. It was all because he trusted the Lord and had faith. He cared nothing for the fish any longer. He had his sights set on the Kingdom of God, and winning souls. If you want prosperity, then go out like Jesus commanded you to and win souls for God, because your reward is in Heaven with Jesus, and not here.

John 12:25

Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Yo Sista ;)

Sorry to disappoint you but have got Goodnews for you. Jesus always supersede our expactations of HIM, shall give you Scriptures to prove my point:-

Matt 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."

Matt 8:3 Then Jesus put out [His] hand and touched him, saying, "I am willing; be cleansed." Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Leprosy in Jesus's time & now is the same, it's contagious & no one would wanna touch a leper. To compound matters, under LAW (Lev 13) it's against the LAW to touch a leper, Jesus could heal the leper by speaking The Word but NO, Jesus Extended His hand to touch the leper!

Imagine not being able to touch one loved ones? Being Shunned his whole life. But Jesus exceeded the leper expectation right?

John 2:10 And he said to him, "Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the [guests] have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!"

Now, GOOD Wine is EXPENSIVE Wine - be it in Jesus's time or now right? Jesus only needed to make water turn into wine & it'll be a miracle already right since it's an utter embarrassment for the groom & bride to have wine running out in the midst oof their wedding celebration correct?

However, did Jesus not exceeds everybody expectation in giving them very GOOD Wine? Btw, does this not also speaks of prosperity? ;)

Luke 5:6 And when they had done this, they caught a great number of fish, and their net was breaking.

Luke 5:7 So they signaled to [their] partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink.


Wow, whole night caught NOTHING & in Jesus's Presence, peter caught net breaking & BOATS Sinking load of fishes!

Now, Christianity in the form of RELIGION will tell you that prosperity are bad & ungodly so forth, however this isn't what what Bible says ;)

Believe all will agree that Jesus need not PROSPER peter with a boatS sinking load of fishes right? ACCORDING to CHIRITIANITY as a REGIGION- they'll try to inoculate this belief that Jesus wants you to be poor or just have enough but HEH Sista, what do you bible says? ;)
 
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washedagain

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:amen: thanks, great post
So I guess all those Christians around the world who are poor and oppressed just don't have enough faith, right?[/quote]

I guess my best friend who completely believed that God was going to heal her still didn't have enough faith? She died.

I guess all those spirit filled born again believers underground throughout the world being tortured maimed and killed because of the Gospel didn't have enough faith.

These people live in a prosperity bubble. I fear the day their bubble pops.
 
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washedagain

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He is trying to justify that..he follows joseph prince, a prosperity teacher and is spamming this board with prosperity teachings and joseph smith videos. I have no idea why the mods are allowing this.
Ahhhhhhhhhh.... has the mods been notified... I am fairly new here and don't know protocal.

It should be stopped because there are babes in Christ that don't need to be confused.
 
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washedagain

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Sister, don't mistake me, because I agree with some of what you are saying. However, the prosperity teaching is heretical, and this is why Joseph Prince is a false teacher. Did you know his latest church (called the rock (who is the rock?)) cost at least 300 million dollars to build? It is appalling really, that he uses the money he got from Gods people on a building to appease his ego instead of helping the poor.

Luke 18:22

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Joseph could have built a much more modest building, not the vainglorious monstrousity his church sits in, and given the money to the poor. That is pure ego, and it is disgusting. It shows something about where his heart is.

God is not the ATM in the sky. Joseph likes to talk about "effortless" living, but this is not in scripture. Jesus said we would face hatred, persecution, trials, and suffering. He told us that we are no longer of the world. He told us not to love the things of this world and friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Matthew 6:19-21

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

You speak of "sin consciousness". This is another false teaching I am sure I have heard from Joseph. One thing God is much more interested in than you getting that new IPAD is your santification. He wants His people to be Holy and without sin. You act like God doesn't care anymore if you sin or not. God is Holy and hates sin. He hates it from unbelievers, and He hates it from Christians. Santification is an on going process, and sin must be continually dealt with and repented from. It is not something you accept or tolerate in your life. There is no excuse for sin, at all.

Revelation 3:19

Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Hebrews 12:6

because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

The kind of Christians these word of faith preachers are raising up are spiritually immature. They feel entitled, they are casual towards sin, and know absolutely nothing about spiritual warfare. All they seem to care about is God putting something in their wallet. In a time of testing, a lot of them are going to fall away.

1 Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

It's fine to teach grace, but it's not fine to neglect everything else. It's like trying to drive a car with one tire. Also, the OSAS is another heresay. You can lose your salvation:

Hebrews 10:26

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

There isn't any sacrifice for rebellion against God. You can't manipulate grace by living like a demon because you think the blood of Jesus will cover it. This is another reason why teachers who preach this doctrine are so dangerous. I have met so many Christians who believed they could just sin to their hearts content and God would forgive them for all of it. Scripture disagrees:

2 Peter 2:20

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

So anyone who believes that will be lost, and God is going to hold the teacher who taught that doctrine accountable.

So, while I agree that grace should be spoken about more often..and that we could all use a much better understanding of Gods grace and glory..most of the errors that propagate on this forum are (funnily enough) about sin. People find every reason under the sun to justify their sin to themselves, including this doctrine of grace. They do everything but correct the problem, and even pretend to themselves that they can't stop sinning because of the corruption of the flesh. It's all a Satanic lie. Sanctification is an ongoing process and repentance is the key. The Holy Spirit can turn you from any sin if you are willing to give it up. So, for this and many other reasons I repudiate these false doctrines..they lead Christians into spiritual paralysis and ruins lives.


Preach on!!!!!!!!!
 
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washedagain

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http://www.acts17-11.com/tests.html1 Thes 3:3 (TEB) ... None of you should turn back because of these persecutions. You yourselves know that such persecutions are part of God's will for us. Acts 14:22 (Jer) ... "We all have to experience many hardships," they said, "before we enter the kingdom of God."

When Bad Things Happen


The Scriptures speak of three types of "trouble" for the believer: 1) Discipline, judgment, or rebuke from the Lord; 2) tests, trials, persecutions, suffering; and 3) temptations or attacks from Satan. So is this present trouble the hand of the Lord in direct rebuke, or the promised testing of our faith, or are we being "had" by Satan? We should know, so we can respond accordingly.
James 1:12 (NIV) Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the victor's crown, the life God has promised to those who love him.
STUDY 2: Tests, Trials, Persecutions, Sufferings

1 Pet 4:12-13 (NIV) Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
Deut 8:2-3 (NIV) Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you... to teach you that man does not live by bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
Gen 22:1-2 (NIV) Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, [what about Isaac's older brother, Ishmael? See Rom 9:8, Gal 4:22-31, John 6:63] whom you love, and... sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
Ex 20:20 (NIV) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."
Ps 66:8-12 (NIV) Praise our God, O peoples, let the sound of his praise be heard; he has preserved our lives and kept our feet from slipping. For you, O God, tested us; you refined us like silver. You brought us into prison and laid burdens on our backs. You let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and water, but you brought us to a place of abundance.

"Follow Me..."

1 Pet 2:19-23 (Phi) A man does a fine thing when he endures pain, with a clear conscience towards God, though he knows he is suffering unjustly. After all, it is no credit to you if you are patient in bearing a punishment which you have richly deserved! But if you do your duty and are punished for it and can still accept it patiently, you are doing something worthwhile in God's sight. Indeed this is your calling. For Christ suffered for you and left you a personal example, so that you might follow in his footsteps. He was guilty of no sin... Yet when he was insulted he offered no insult in return. When he suffered he made no threats of revenge. He simply committed his cause to the One who judges fairly.

Suffering, The Cost Of Discipleship

John 15:18-20 (NIV) "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own... Remember the words I spoke to you; 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
1 Pet 4:1 (NIV) Since Christ suffered physical pain you must arm yourselves with the same inner conviction that he had. To be free from sin means bodily suffering, and the man who accepts this will spend the rest of his time here on earth, not in being led by human desires, but in doing the will of God.
2 Tim 3:12 (NIV) In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
John 16:2-4 (NIV) "... In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is doing a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you..."

Destiny...

1 Thes 3:3 (NIV) so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. You know that we were destined for them.
2 Tim 3:12 (Phi) Persecution is inevitable for those who are determined to live really Christian lives.
1 Pet 1:6-7 (Phi) This means tremendous joy to you, even though at present you may be temporarily harassed by all kinds of trials. This is no accident--it happens to prove your faith, which is infinitely more valuable than gold, and gold, as you know, even though it is ultimately perishable, must be purified by fire.
James 1:2-4 (Phi) When all kinds of trials and temptations crowd into your lives, don't resent them as intruders, but welcome them as friends! Realize that they come to test your faith and to produce in you the quality of endurance.
2 Tim 1:8 (Phi) ... Accept your share of the hardship that faithfulness to the gospel entails in the strength that God gives you.

This Is Good News?

1 Pet 4:12-14 (Phi) And now, dear friends of mine, I beg you not to be unduly alarmed at the fiery ordeals which come to test your faith, as though this were some abnormal experience. You should be glad, because it means that you are sharing in Christ's sufferings. One day, when he shows himself in full splendor, you will be filled with the most tremendous joy. If you are reproached for being Christ's followers, that is a cause for joy, for you can be sure that God's Spirit of glory is resting upon you.
1 Pet 1:6 (NIV) In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
2 Cor 4:16-17 (Phi) This is the reason we never lose heart. The outward man does indeed suffer wear and tear, but every day the inward man receives fresh strength. These little troubles (which are really so transitory) are winning for us a permanent, glorious and solid reward out of all proportion to our pain.

Spiritual Surfing

Rom 8:37 (Jer) These are the trials through which we triumph, by the power of him who loved us.

Oswald Chambers: "The [wave] that distresses the ordinary swimmer produces in the surf-rider the super-joy of going clean through it. Apply that to our own circumstances, these very things--tribulation, distress, persecution, produce in us the super-joy; they are not things to fight. We are more than conquerors... super-victors, with a joy we would not have but for the very things which look as if they are going to overwhelm us... The saint knows the joy of the Lord not in spite of tribulation, but because of it."
Rejoice!

Col 1:24 (Phi) ... It is true at this moment that I [Paul] am suffering... yet I am glad, because it gives me a chance to contribute in my own sufferings something to the uncompleted pains which Christ suffers on behalf of his body, the Church.
Rom 5:3-5 (NIV) Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
Rom 8:18 (Jer) I think that what we suffer in this life can never be compared to the glory, as yet unrevealed, which is waiting for us...
Heb 10:32,35-39 (NIV) ... in the face of suffering... do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For in just a little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.
1 Pet 4:16-19 (NIV) ... if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God. And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" So, then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

Advice From Jesus

Rev 2:9 (Jer) "I know the trials you have had, and how poor you are--though you are rich!"
Rev 2:10 (NIV) "Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life."
Luke 12:4-5 (NIV) "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body and that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after killing the body, has the power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."
Rev 3:10 (Jer) "Because you have kept my commandment to endure trials, I will keep you safe in the time of trial which is going to come for the whole world..."
WHEN TROUBLE COMES, WHAT KIND IS IT?

DISCIPLINE TEST/TRIAL TEMPTATION
FROM The Lord God, World, Satan The Devil
RESULT OF Disobedience Following God Pride or Exposure
HOW TO DISCERN Fits Crime Proves Faith Leads Astray
RIGHT RESPONSE Repent! Persevere Resist!
DO NOT Make Light of Shrink Back Fall into
GOD IS SAYING We are Sons His Name is in Us The Flesh is Weak
ENDS WITH Fear and Holiness Death and Glory Sin or Victory

The Big Picture

Rom 8:28 (NIV) And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:35,37-39 (Phi) Who can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble, pain, or persecution? Can lack of clothes and food, danger to life and limb, the threat and force of arms?... No, in all these things we win an overwhelming victory through him who has proved his love for us. I have become absolutely convinced that neither death nor life, neither messenger of Heaven nor monarch of earth, neither what happens today nor what may happen tomorrow, neither a power from on high nor a power from below, nor anything else in God's whole world has any power to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord!

Believing The Gospel...

1 Cor 15:1-2 (Jer) Brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel... because the gospel will save you only if you keep believing exactly what I preached to you--believing anything else will not lead to anything.
1 Cor 15:3-4 (Phi) For I passed on to you,--as essential, the message I myself received--that Christ died for our sins, as the Scriptures said he would; that he was buried and rose again on the third day, again as the scriptures foretold.

A.W. Tozer: "As long as we remain in the body we shall be subject to a certain amount of that common suffering which we all share with the sons of men. But there is another kind of suffering, known only to the Christian: it is voluntary suffering deliberately and knowingly incurred for the sake of Christ.
"Such is a luxury, a treasure of fabulous value. And it is rare as well as precious, for there are few in this decadent age who will of their own choice go down into this dark mine looking for jewels. God will not force us into this kind of suffering; he will not lay this cross upon us nor embarrass us with riches we do not want. Such riches are reserved for those who apply to serve in the legion of the expendables, who love not their lives unto death, who volunteer to suffer for Christ's sake and who follow up their application with lives that challenge the devil and invite the fury of hell.
"Such as these have said good-bye to the world's toys; they have accepted toil and suffering as their earthly portion. The marks of the cross are upon them and they are known in heaven and in hell. But where are they? Has this breed of Christian died out of the earth?"
 
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gideon army

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I guess my best friend who completely believed that God was going to heal her still didn't have enough faith? She died.

Ahem, am very sorry to bust your bubble. Why? My Bible never tell me to look onto your best friend:doh:

Simply becos my bible tells me to looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of [our] faith Hebrews 12:2

I guess all those spirit filled born again believers underground throughout the world being tortured maimed and killed because of the Gospel didn't have enough faith.

Again, am very sorry that i can't speak nor comment about your above statement, however i can refer you to:-

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Now, believe all can see that there's another Gospel NOT According to paul's teaching via the Holy Spirit from which there's a Holy Spirit Inspired Double Strongest Curse possible in the Greek. Accursed reads anathema in the Greek & translated: a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, devoted to the direst of woes

If however you've not gotten the picture, then how abt:-

Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed [is] the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD.

Humm, may i guess that there's a insurmountable number of christians who advocates self instead of being Christ's Centered?

These people live in a prosperity bubble. I fear the day their bubble pops.

Humm, why need you fear? Don't worry, my salvation/ prosperity/ health & glowing from Glory to Glory depends NOT on you (Praise Jesus) but it's Solely Hinges on Jesus ;) For i know that He's Faithful even when i am faithless :p

Don't you know that it is written:

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of [our] hope without wavering, for He who promised [is] faithful.

Now you know the reason for me confessing ALL the Promises of DADDY GOD? Believe you've not missed the part where it's stated:-

Eph 3:20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

Wow, Exceedingly is good enough, abundantly on it's own is already a miracle but am sure you can read right?

However, there's a clause :doh: It's ACCORDING to the power that works in you hence fm this scripture i know you'll not see mighty works / miracles in your life for you have none - according to all your posts :amen:
 
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washedagain

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Ahem, am very sorry to bust your bubble. Why? My Bible never tell me to look onto your best friend:doh:

Simply becos my bible tells me to looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of [our] faith Hebrews 12:2



You make absolutely no sense. Is English your first language? Where did I ever say that I was looking to my friend??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Are you for real?

And of course you cannot address the hundreds of thousands around the globe today that are suffering severe persecution and death. It doesn't fit your false gospel.

The fear I have is fear of the Lord FOR YOU.

God is not your Jennie in a bottle.

God is your creator who gives and takes away, who will allow you to go through many trials to have you press on towards the prize with perseverance.

Over and out.
 
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patience7

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So I guess all those Christians around the world who are poor and oppressed just don't have enough faith, right?

I guess my best friend who completely believed that God was going to heal her still didn't have enough faith? She died.

I guess all those spirit filled born again believers underground throughout the world being tortured maimed and killed because of the Gospel didn't have enough faith.

These people live in a prosperity bubble. I fear the day their bubble pops.[/quote]

Again, I do not live in a "prosperity" bubble. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2003- I wanted to be healed "instantly". I didn't want to go through radiation and chemo but guess what, I did. Did I have enough faith? (every man is given the same measure of faith; Romans 12:3) Then why wasn't I healed instantly - because of fear. My mother died of breast cancer so I knew what was ahead. I prayed, I believed, then I would doubt and over and over and over, the same thing. Fear and doubt negate the promises of God. "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave os the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:6-8 That's why I wasn't healed instantly but then I just accepted - let the peace of God rule in my heart and left it to him to work through the physicians and the whole process and I have been cancer free for 8 years and I owe it all to God.

 
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washedagain

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I guess my best friend who completely believed that God was going to heal her still didn't have enough faith? She died.

I guess all those spirit filled born again believers underground throughout the world being tortured maimed and killed because of the Gospel didn't have enough faith.

These people live in a prosperity bubble. I fear the day their bubble pops.

Again, I do not live in a "prosperity" bubble. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2003- I wanted to be healed "instantly". I didn't want to go through radiation and chemo but guess what, I did. Did I have enough faith? (every man is given the same measure of faith; Romans 12:3) Then why wasn't I healed instantly - because of fear. My mother died of breast cancer so I knew what was ahead. I prayed, I believed, then I would doubt and over and over and over, the same thing. Fear and doubt negate the promises of God. "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave os the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:6-8 That's why I wasn't healed instantly but then I just accepted - let the peace of God rule in my heart and left it to him to work through the physicians and the whole process and I have been cancer free for 8 years and I owe it all to God.

[/quote]


My best friend never feared nor did her faith ever waver that God was going to heal her. She was amazing like that. She died anyway.

People die... God knows when and how. It is all His plan.

God is not shocked nor surprised when someone gets sick and dies....

You have been cancer free for 8 years... My best friend was for 9.

sounds like you give all the glory to yourself for dismissing fear.

Good luck with that.

Of course we are to pray for healing.... God does not always answer yes.

Just the truth.

Do I have faith that God can and does heal... absolutely... I also know he doesn't always do what we desire Him to do.

He is not a genie in a bottle. God does what God does. sometimes He says Yes, Sometimes He says no.
 
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patience7

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thesunisout;58597383]What I think it is telling us is not to rely on the things of this world, which are perishing, but rather rely on the things of God, which are imperishable..to build up our reward in Heaven rather than our material existence here. If we are worried more about the things of this world rather than the things of God, that is where our heart will be. We need our eyes turned towards Heaven, and then our heart will follow. It is to love and need God rather than the world.

The thief is referring to the devil. This passage refers to thieves, which does not refer to a singular devil.
Ok - but btw, we not only have a singular adversary out there - we wrestle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We fight against the devil and his followers (1/3 of the angels that fell with him).

God has told us He already knows what our needs are. He knows you need your car fixed. You don't need to demand it from him, and he doesn't owe it to you. God is not our debtor. Approaching God by demanding is something a petulant child does. It's not like, if you use the right legalese, God will be compelled to do something for you. God keeps His promise to take care of us, but it's up to Him how He wants to fulfill it. Nowhere is there any promise for material wealth.
Why then do the scriptures say to "ask"?

My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. Psalm 62:5
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11


I'm not saying don't ask to get your car fixed, but God will do it on his own time, according to His scheduling, if He does it at all. He isn't obligated. You also don't know what His plans are. What if He doesn't want you to get your car fixed? What if He has something much better planned for you? Instead of naming it and claiming it, allow God to contrive it and provide it.
I don't think God would want me to miss work because of a broke car because then I would be in worst shape. If it is something that I have a need for and that need is great, then I believe that my God will supply that need.

The rule of thumb I use in asking for things is, does it glorify God? If it doesn't glorify God, I am not interested in it. I need less things in my life that don't glorify God, not more. I know God is taking care of my life, and I trust Him..if I really need something, I'll ask..but materially, it's all the same to me. I only want expediency in my life to glorify God and do His will.
I don't have a rule of thumb - I don't think there is a rule for praying to get our needs met except that we ask I just go to God with whatever need I have and when I receive my answer, I glorify God. And if I don't receive an answer then I must have asked (without realizing) with the wrong motive.
There are too many scriptures that say to "ask, believe, and receive" to be ignored and why would we want to ignore them?

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Matthew 21:22
. . . If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, be it done unto thee.
Matthew 8:13

And because I chose to believe these scriptures - I am labeled and lumped together with "prosperity teachings" and living in a "prosperity bubble"?
:doh:

 
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washedagain

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Asking and demanding are two very different things.

I often ask God for many things to happen. I even thank Him in advance for what He is going to do... but knowing that God is going to do what He knows to do that is best for me... sometimes that means he has to say no to His child. But I thank Him anyway for whatever the answer will be. I always know it is going to be a fantastic God story.
 
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patience7

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washedagain;58599392]
My best friend never feared nor did her faith ever waver that God was going to heal her. She was amazing like that. She died anyway.

People die... God knows when and how. It is all His plan.

God is not shocked nor surprised when someone gets sick and dies....
I really don't think that you can speak for what was in your friends innermost thoughts. She was courageous and showed to others her strength but you do not know her thoughts.

You have been cancer free for 8 years... My best friend was for 9.
sounds like you give all the glory to yourself for dismissing fear.
Good luck with that.
Ours is a spiritual warfare - I had to overcome my thoughts of fear - yes.
Do I glory in myself - no but I am the only one who can control my thoughts. This is what I eventually did once I calmed down from hearing the devastating news - Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6,7
Of course we are to pray for healing.... God does not always answer yes.

Just the truth.

Do I have faith that God can and does heal... absolutely... I also know he doesn't always do what we desire Him to do.

He is not a genie in a bottle. God does what God does. sometimes He says Yes, Sometimes He says no.
There is a time to live and a time to die - that's the way it is. But I will never limit my God - what He can and will do for me.
 
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patience7

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Asking and demanding are two very different things.

I often ask God for many things to happen. I even thank Him in advance for what He is going to do... but knowing that God is going to do what He knows to do that is best for me... sometimes that means he has to say no to His child. But I thank Him anyway for whatever the answer will be. I always know it is going to be a fantastic God story.

May I ask - who has said anything about "DEMANDING"? :confused:
 
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washedagain

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I really don't think that you can speak for what was in your friends innermost thoughts. She was courageous and showed to others her strength but you do not know her thoughts.


Ours is a spiritual warfare - I had to overcome my thoughts of fear - yes.
Do I glory in myself - no but I am the only one who can control my thoughts. This is what I eventually did once I calmed down from hearing the devastating news - Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6,7

There is a time to live and a time to die - that's the way it is. But I will never limit my God - what He can and will do for me.


Her fruit revealed her faith... she never wavered ever. She was the most amazing woman of faith I have ever met. And quite honestly, even if her faith had wavered in her inner most thoughts, that is not what killed her. Sheeeesh. God chose to take her home, period.

what a screwy way of looking at how God works. As if.

And again, what does that passage have to do with your insistence that God will answer in the affirmative? Again, are you demonstrating to me that you beat cancer because you controlled your thoughts? Really?

HAving the peace of God and being healed are to radically different things... you can be actively dying and have the peace of God.

Who is limiting God? In fact... I am the one that is giving God all the freedom... He does what he does. He gives and takes away. He answers yes sometimes and no sometimes... He is God and does what he pleases.

You theology is demanding that God answer in the affirmative everytime because you have prayed with faith and dismissed fear. Well bully for you.... God does not work that way. God may be well pleased and still take you home.
 
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gideon army

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If you walk in complete faith and have no fear, do you believe God is obliged/obligated to heal you?[/quote]


Humm,

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

What do you make of above Scripture then ;)
 
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washedagain

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If you walk in complete faith and have no fear, do you believe God is obliged/obligated to heal you?[/quote]


Humm,

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

What do you make of above Scripture then ;)

What does that passage have to do with my question? What do you think the "things" are that are freely given... the whole passage is talking about Sanctification, justification and glorification. And yes, God gives us ALL those things who are in Christ Jesus... for petes sakes.. .do you honestly think that that passage is telling you that if you ask God for a purple 1967 Cadillac with original chrome and high profile tires he is gonna do it simply because you told him to? Really???????

Nothing like ripping a passage out of context.

Now, answer my question....

do you believe God is obliged/obligated to heal you?
 
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Light hearted

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You speak of "sin consciousness". This is another false teaching I am sure I have heard from Joseph. One thing God is much more interested in than you getting that new IPAD is your santification. He wants His people to be Holy and without sin. You act like God doesn't care anymore if you sin or not. God is Holy and hates sin. He hates it from unbelievers, and He hates it from Christians. Santification is an on going process, and sin must be continually dealt with and repented from. It is not something you accept or tolerate in your life. There is no excuse for sin, at all.

If I may focus on the sentance..."You act like God doesn't care anymore if you sin or not"

I haven't written on these forums for months now. Yet you assume my stance on sin and can make a conclusion that I believe God doesn't care about if I sin or not. I believe I mentioned that when I do sin that the Holy Spirit prods me yet at the same time He reminds me of my Righteousness in Christ.

There is a shameful feeling when I sin, it causes me to reflect on how I could have handled a situation better and I learn from it. Perhaps I could have seen the issue arise earlier and detoured the situation before it happened.

But somehow you see this as me thinking God doesn't care about sin anymore. hmmmm, gotta think on that one.

You know, these "christians" that you claim to know that think they can go on sinning, perhaps sin more now, perhaps they are not truely saved inthe first place. They do not live with the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.

Now that I do have the Holy Spirit living within me, I feel the need to live a more sin-less life.

Joseh Prince does not continually bash his church with sin, sin,sin. But very often he very clearly makes the very bold statement... JOSEPH PRINCE DOES NOT BELIEVE SIN IS OK. Ok, now that he has put that out there he speaks of the power of Christ, and the Holy Spirit to help lead you from following your sinful desires.

Why on earth would he, as many other churches do, stand the on the pulpit, and do as he calls, pull you in to the pit, when as soon as you walk into the real world, and as you stated earlier, be rediculed, insulted, punished ect.

He uses the strength of the Holy Spirit to convict you from the inside of your sinful nature.

Your doing the opposite, your trying to get to the inside from the outside. As we know from the past, it didn't work. I believe in romans it speaks that when the law came, they sinned even more.

Once again, raise Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they which are in you will change you from the inside.
 
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Light hearted

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Hebrews 10:26

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

I've seen this verse used to condemn every Christian out there. I'm sure satan loves this one also.

I'm not gonna try to explain this verse, it is too undirect and missunderstandable. Yet, as I do with most verses, lets try to live out the verse as many like to see it.

Now please correct me if I do not understand your understanding.

Deliberaly sinning, this could be the sin of cursing/ cussing, sexual, just undressing a man or woman with ones eyes, drinking excessively, not helping a nieghbor when I could have, walking by a homeless person without putting money in the jar, doubt that there is a God, doubting that God loves me, doubting Jesus didn't pay for all my sins, watching inappropriate content on the computer, holding a grudge against anybody.

The list goes on and on, they are all a sin. In your mind if I deliberatly do any of these, I go straight to hell.

Yup, I read it again, if I deliberatly do any of these I can have a fearful expectation of a raging fire. It doesn't sound like Heaven, it must be hell.

Lets say I have been saved for 40 years, for fourty years I do the impossible, I never deliberatly sin. In your understanding, I'm still heaven bound.

But, now I'm on my deathbed, I know I have hours to live. This is where the rubber meets the road. Oh, my God, I am wavering in my belief, I truely have stood on the foundation of Jesus as my savior but I feel as if I have not repented of all my sin.

Wow, all this time, I never had a deloberate sin, and now, I show a doubt to my destination, I show a doubt that Jesus' Grace is sufficient.

Oops, correct me if I'm wrong, but am I not going to hell. I thought this thought, I beliberatly thought the thought, I ask, am I going to the raging fire???


My best and most possible way to beat the verse of which you posted in the way you seem to direct it would be to not be saved all my life, then just as I am breating my very last breath, repent and acknowledge I need Jesus as my savior, fall back a die. Yeahhh. I died and I didn't have a chance to doubt God, which is sin.

Now if the verse means other than I have proposed it would be a great relief to me. Please explain.
 
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