The Revlation of the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition

Status
Not open for further replies.

carlaimpinge

Active Member
Jun 4, 2002
100
0
73
Montgomery, Alabama
Visit site
✟15,255.00
Faith
Christian
The REVELATION of the MAN of Sin, the Son of Perdition
___________________________________________________________


The revelation of the man of sin, as the son of perdition is one of the mysteries given unto Paul the apostle. It is tied DIRECTLY to the GATHERING of the body of Christ. Paul was revealed the MYSTERY of the body of Christ (Eph.3), and it’s gathering (1 Cor.15, 1 Thess.4), so this REVELATION, which concerns TIMING of the gathering is given unto him.

Let me first say, that this passage, was the main reason that I could never accept a pre-week gathering of the body of Christ. I was taught the pre-week rapture but NEVER accepted it. One of the greatest Bible believers and teachers that I have ever heard stated, “Your FIRST understanding of a passage you read is generally ALWAYS what it is”. The Lord’s words are PLAIN. He didn’t write the book to confuse those LOOKING for the truth. He did to CONFOUND those who were not though! The Holy Spirit will lead you and guide you into all truth. (1 Cor.2, John 16)

Verses 3 and 4 are a direct testimony IN PLAIN ENGLISH that the gathering cannot come, BEFORE the falling away, and that man of sin be revealed. What could be any plainer? I knew I would have trouble down the line because all my fellow believers were pre-week rapturists. I never worried about their opinions. I stuck with the Book and that FIRST understanding of the text.

The passage has been fooled with by everyone. They fool with the day of Christ. They fool with the words as stated in the King James, what withholdeth and he who now letteth. They fool with the revelation’s timing. They have now MANUFACTURED a Bible with a PRIVATE INTERPRETATION stuck in it. The “HE” has been capitalized in the New King James in verse 7, to teach it is the Holy Spirit. This passage is a beauty for FALSE INTERPRETATION.

2 Thess.2 is the passage which determines the TIMING of the gathering, along with the CONFIRMATION passage of 1 Thess.5.

What you believe about this passage makes a difference!

There are several things in the passage which should be noted.

1. The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
2. Our gathering together unto him
3. The revelation of the man of sin, the son of perdition
4. The destruction of the son of perdition

All four of those items are different.

The coming refers to the day of the Lord, as referenced BACK to chapter one. The gathering refers to the day of Christ as reference to its introduction in chapter two. The revelation refers to the START of his reign at the midst of the week. The destruction refers to AFTER the tribulation, AFTER the reign of the beast is completed, AT Christ's revelation as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Notice verse 8 in the passage.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

WHEN is the Wicked revealed and WHEN is he destroyed? They DO NOT occur at the same time, brethren. If so, there is a BREAK, at the comma, in verse 8. TIME GAP, my friend. Just as the Lord Jesus REVEALED a gap within the OT, concerning his coming. (see Luke 4, Isaiah 61)

Ah, those King James translators! How marvelous was their leading, and wonderful perception given by the Holy Ghost! Punctuation is not inspired? Who STATES that with authority? What authority?

The pre-week rapturists think he is revealed AT the signing of the covenant, or when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way! The text STATES neither.

The revelation of the man of sin, the son of perdition is withholden by SOME THING, (And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time), and SOME PERSON. (only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way)

When the revelation of the man of sin occurs, the GATHERING can occur ALSO! That was Paul’s statement in verse 3.

There is something and someone which HINDERS the revelation through!

What withholds and who lets? That is the question before the gathering can come.

The text states the what. Paul introduces it, with "FOR". It is the mystery of iniquity. What is that? It is a mystery, which concerns the revelation of the man of sin, the son of perdition, who is the LAST world ruler BEFORE the Lord Jesus Christ comes back to this earth. This mystery has been, and is going on presently.

Where have you seen anything like that before?

The matchmate for this passage is found in the book of Revelation. John details a mystery of the beast, which concerns the son of perdition, who appears, the last king BEFORE the Lord Jesus Christ comes back to this earth. (Rev.17)

It is in his book, that we find the person who lets, which is mentioned by Paul.

There is a seventh king, which has not come, WHICH KEEPS the son of perdition from revelation. He is the seventh king of the mystery of the beast, who withholds the revelation of the son of perdition. That king is CONNECTED to the mystery of iniquity. He's "part" of the mystery. We have IDENTIFIED both parts. The what and the who which KEEPS the revelation from coming to pass.

Paul states this person has to be “taken out of the way”. That is not a reference to a rapture. The cross reference is found in Job 24:24, and deals with the cutting off, the DEATH of someone. When that person is taken out the way, then that WICKED can be revealed, and the GATHERING can occur.

The 7th king of the mystery of the beast is said to continue a short space. This man is killed. The beast, the son of perdition then appears. This 7th king is the one of the HEADS of the beast which is wounded unto death, and whose wound was healed. (Rev.13) The beast IS the son of perdition.

The REVELATION of the man of sin, as the son of perdition, occurs at the MIDST of Daniel’s 70th week, for the son of perdition is given power to reign for 42 months. (Rev.13) That is WHEN he shows up. That is when Satan is cast out of heaven and gives his power to the beast. (Rev.12)

The GATHERING is tied to the REVELATION of the man of sin, the son of perdition, which is 42 months before the coming of the Lord.

His DESTRUCTION is by the COMING of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is 42 months after his revelation.

At his revelation, those who did not believe the truth, will believe a LIE. They will follow their leader. They refused to believe Paul's gospel and receive the love of the truth. Those who did believe the TRUTH, will OBTAIN the glory and salvation that we were chosen to receive by the gathering. We will follow our leader.

His revelation is not his destruction. The gathering is tied to the revelation, and the coming is tied to the destruction. That is PLAIN ENGLISH in the context of this passage.

LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
 

carlaimpinge

Active Member
Jun 4, 2002
100
0
73
Montgomery, Alabama
Visit site
✟15,255.00
Faith
Christian
Terri,

 

The falling away comes before the revelation of the son of perdition so it's NOT part of the great tribulation.

The revelation of the son of perdition is the EVENT which connects to the gathering.  His revelation is connected to the death of the 7th head, then he ARISES from the dead for he is the 8th and OF the 7.  (Rev.17,13)

In Christ Jesus,

Carl
 
Upvote 0
Hi carlaimpinge,

Glad to have a fellow beliver in 'Paul's Gospel." I am somewhat new to this. However, I do believe I have the basics down. I notice the website forum and I will be reading it and will log in. I just purchased all four volumes of C.R. Stam's "Acts, Dispensationally Considered.

Terri,

There was no offence. I just had to leave for the day. In fact, I am going to bed now.

Mr. John
 
Upvote 0

Terri

Senior Veteran
Dec 28, 2001
1,908
572
Visit site
✟20,061.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Sorry you got banned from RaptureReady JesusServant.  It is a pre-trib board.  Discussions of views other than pre-trib are limited to a forum specifically designed for people of all eschatological interpretations to discuss their beliefs. You do have to be a member to view this forum.
 
Upvote 0

postrib

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
508
0
✟958.00
Faith
Christian
Originally posted by carlaimpinge
...the GATHERING of the body of Christ...

I believe the gathering is at the destruction of the son of perdition because he is destroyed by Jesus' coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8), and we are gathered at Jesus' coming (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Matthew 24:29-31), and there's no 3rd coming. We Christians will still be on the earth during the Antichrist’s rule (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

Note that we Christians who will be in the tribulation are Christians after the cross and after Pentecost (i.e. not OT) who have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13), so we must be in his body (Ephesians 4:4-5).
 
Upvote 0

postrib

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
508
0
✟958.00
Faith
Christian
Originally posted by carlaimpinge
...The revelation of the son of perdition is the EVENT which connects to the gathering... 
Note that Jesus doesn't say that we'll be raptured shortly after the abomination of desolation, but that we'll need to flee to the mountains when we see it (Matthew 24:15-16), and that the tribulation will be shortened precisely because we Christians will still be here (Matthew 24:21-31).

Note that Paul doesn't say that we'll be raptured shortly after the abomination of desolation, but that Jesus' coming (parousia) to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). I don't believe Paul taught a 3rd coming (parousia) of Jesus.

Note that Revelation doesn't say that we'll be raptured shortly after the abomination of desolation, but that we Christians must go through the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 20:4).

My concern is that if some mistakenly believe that Jesus promised to rapture us shortly after the abomination of desolation, and then he doesn't, and then month after month continues to pass by without any rapture, some may begin to wonder if the Antichrist's and Satan's claims to be more powerful than Jesus might really be true, that they've somehow thwarted the rapture. But if we go into the tribulation believing that we must wait 1,335 days after the abomination of desolation for Jesus to rapture us (Daniel 12:11-12), then we'll be prepared to endure to the very end without our faith being shaken.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

postrib

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
508
0
✟958.00
Faith
Christian
Originally posted by Mr. John
..."Paul's Gospel."...
Note that there is only one gospel, "the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16), in which "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision" (Colossians 3:11); "for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain" (Acts 28:20).

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15); "The gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" (Colossians 1:23); "He which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed" (Galatians 1:23); "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8-9).

"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28); "hath made us able ministers of the new testament" (2 Corinthians 3:6); "Whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43); "the remission of their sins" (Luke 1:77); "through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins" (Romans 3:25).

"And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" (Luke 24:46-47); "I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles" (Acts 26:22-23); "I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4); "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21).

"It is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith" (Romans 3:30); "the just shall live by faith" (Hebrews 10:38); "the just shall live by faith" (Romans 1:17); "the righteousness which is by faith" (Hebrews 11:7); "the righteousness of God which is by faith" (Romans 3:22).
 
Upvote 0
The gathering together/Day of Christ shall not come till we shall see apostasy first and the revealed of Antichrist - 2 Thess 2:3.

Clearly, we already seeing apostasy everywhere today. The next event that we will face is the revealed of Antichrist.

We will be persecute under the Antichrist for 42 months - Rev. 13:5, & 7.

Apostle Paul does not saying, the removal of the Holy Spirit of 2 Thess 2:7. Paul tells us, that Antichrist is now being holding back from being to be revealed. God hinders Antichrist from being to be revealed.

When the time arrives, God shall allow Antichrist to be removed from the midst("Out of the way") then Antichrist shall be revealed- 2 Thess 2:8.

2 Thess 2:7 is not talking about rapture and the removal of the Holy Spirit. It talking about Antichrist shall be removed from the mystery, and then to be revealed.


In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,432
1,799
60
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟40,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
 

Hi people, newbie here! I don't believe in a pre tribulation or pre 70th week rapture but I don't believe in a mid tribulation or mid week rapture either. I could be wrong and I do respect other people's opinion on this. Here's my opinion. 

I just don't see the point in a mid trib rapture? The only way I could see why a mid tribulation rapture would occur is if God considers the last half of Daniel's 70th week as his wrath but this isn't biblical. After we're told about the Abomination of Desolation we're told the wrath will be from Satan himself and not from God.

When the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up the it's refered to as a time of great tribulation with persecution, trouble, affliction, and anguish. However Gods wrath is defined as justifiable judgement with violent passion, anger, indignation, and vengeance. The two don't equal the same but are different.

Here's some verses to look at:

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him"

1 Thes. 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

1 Thes. 1:10 "And to wait for his son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come"

I could go on with many passages but I think you know what I'm talking about. I believe the pre-tribers and the mid-tribers need to ask themselves what constitutes the wrath of God.

I feel I've already made a case that tribulation is different than wrath. The diffinitions are wholely different. So we need to ask ourselves when is the wrath of God poured out on the "children of disobedience" Eph. 5:6.

Check this out! IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matt. 24:29-31

I just don't know how Jesus could have said it better or plainer! Here Jesus is saying he will gather together the elect with the great sound of a trumpet. When? at the point "immediately after the tribulation of those days". Look at 1 Thes. 4, this sounds like what Paul is talking about!

Ask yourselves with all that you know about Daniel's 70th week were do the days of great tribulation start? Now also ask yourselves when does Jesus say he will come and gather.

Notice Jesus here says that he will come with power and great glory but in Rev 19:15-16 it says. "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty God. And he hath on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords". Here Jesus is comeing on a white horse while in Matthew he comes on the clouds why? He comes first to take the elect away from haveing to go through Gods wrath. Then he comes down to earth with his heavenly army to claim his kingdom.

When does the wrath of God take place and for how long does it last?

 

 

 
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,432
1,799
60
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟40,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Sorry Carlaimpinge I got carried away there and missed answering you on the man of perdition.

I fail to see were you make your point that the gathering is tied to the revelation of the man of sin. Rev17:11 talks about the son of perdition being revealed but further on in Rev 17:13-14 says These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. THESE SHALL MAKE WAR WITH THE LAMB,(comma) and the lamb shall over come them: for he is the Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

I agreed with alot of what you have said but the one thing that you could not have been more right on was saying that the King James translators knew where to put their punctuation. Yes how marvelous was their leading!

If you read the chapter as is you will see that after the revelation of the one who goeth into perdition, the son of perdition and his armies then will make war with the lamb who are the chosen and faithful followers. While after this war the lamb who is the King of kings and the Lord of lords will over come.

Read close the start of verse 14. It says "these SHALL make war" not plan to or hope to or whatever but there will be a war. If you want to argue that the lamb is not none other than the chosen, faithful followers then I would guess your saying Satan and his armies first over come Jesus the lamb and is able to fight and make war with him. I don't believe that would be true and I hope you don't either!

As I said or alluded to in my pervious post, after the Abomination of Desolation Satan will pour out his wrath on Gods people!

 
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The gathering of the body of Christ is connected with the REVELATION of the son of perdition, NOT his destruction.  (2 Thess.2:3)  His revelation is 42 months before his destruction. (Rev.13)

The believers in the great tribulation are called his servants the prophets, saints, and them that fear God.  Christian is a term connected with those under the dispensation of the grace of God and those who come in contact with the Pauline ministry.  (Acts 11, 26, 1 Peter 4, 2 Peter 3)  No believer during great tribulation is IDENTIFIED as being a Christian.

The body of Christ is gathered NOT AFTER the abomination of desolation, but at the revelation of the son of perdition. 

The Lord Jesus nor Paul told any member of the body of Christ to FLEE Jerusalem.  Christ was speaking to, concerning, and about beard growing, sabbath observing, temple worshipping, Judean dwelling, Jerusalem event knowledgable JEWS, and their pregnant wives.

Paul does NOT state the GATHERING of the body of Christ DESTROYS the son of periditon.  Look at the man's prooftext, folks.  (2 Thess.2:1-8)  The gathering is CONNECTED with his revelation, NOT his destruction.  One comes in the midst of the week, while the other occurs 42 months LATER.

There are four gospels plainly defined by the Bible.

The gospel of the kingdom.

The gospel of God.

The gospel of the grace of God.

The everlasting gospel.

Progressive revelation shows that all are different.  The death, burial, and resurrection was not included in the kingdom gospel, as PLAINLY SEEN and IGNORED in Luke 18.

Paul's gospel had to be told the apostles at Jerusalem by him.  (Gal.2)

The everlasting gospel is preached by an angel, not men.  It concerns nothing about the death, burial, and resurrection. 

 

 
 
Upvote 0
DeafPostrib,

The text does NOT state God OR the Holy Spirit is hindering the revelation of the son of perdition. It is hindered by something (ye know what withholdeth) and someone. (he who now letteth will let)

The FIRST thing is the mystery of iniquity, which is in the text. The mystery of iniquity concerns the REVELATION of the son of perdition.

The companion passage for cross reference would be Rev.17, where John speaks of the son of perdition where it is called the mystery of the beast. We find the someone there. It is the 7th king, who is PART of the mystery, which has not shown up yet. HE is the one who hinders the son of perdition from being revealed.

The revelation of the son of perdition concerns the 7th kings DEATH. (Rev.13,17, 2 Thess.2, Job 24). The interpretation to the Biblical term, taken out of the way, is DEATH.

When that man dies, the body of Christ can be gathered.

That was Paul's statement.

2 Thess.2:2-3
 
Upvote 0
nephilimiyr,

Quote:

The only way I could see why a mid tribulation rapture would occur is if God considers the last half of Daniel's 70th week as his wrath but this isn't biblical.

You need to do a little more bible reading.

The wrath of God is administered by many, including Satan. (Isaiah 10:5-6) That's just one. There's over 100 verses which teach my statement.

Job said he was under the wrath of God, and said so. (Job 19) Guess who carried it out? (Job 1-2) Job is a type of the Jew during the tribulation.

Quote:

When the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up the it's refered to as a time of great tribulation with persecution, trouble, affliction, and anguish. However Gods wrath is defined as justifiable judgement with violent passion, anger, indignation, and vengeance. The two don't equal the same but are different.

You haven't MARKED all the verses in the OT, which "defines" the wrath of God. The wrath of God is CONTAINED in every seal, vial, and trumpet.
See what they contain, then go back and FIND IT in the OT scriptures.

What posties have done is LIFTED "a word" OUT of the Pauline epistles and gave it their own meaning.

When Paul states we are not appointed to wrath, that is IN CONNECTION with the day of the Lord and the time of the woman in travail. (1 Thess.5:1-9) He's certainly not speaking of WHOSE wrath it is, but WHEN it is.

The wrath to come, which we are delivered from, is ALSO the great tribulation. (Matt.3,24, Luke 3, 21) What do you think John was talking about when he said, "Who hath warned you to FLEE from the WRATH TO COME?"

Friend, that's the great tribulation of Matt.24, which the Lord Jesus told JEWS to flee.

My point is in 2 Thess.2:2-3.

Paul is speaking of the gathering, and states it will not come unto there is a FALLING away, and the revelation of the son of perdition.

THERE'S THE CONNECTION IN BOLD PRINT. The gathering is connected with the REVELATION, not the DESTRUCTION which is AFTER the tribulation.

The people who Satan persecutes are the PEOPLE OF GOD'S WRATH, for there is a GENERATION of his wrath. (Isaiah 10:6, Jeremiah 7:29)

In Christ Jesus,
Carl
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,432
1,799
60
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟40,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
carlaimpinge

I agree with you about me needing to read the bible more but even so I doubt you hold all the answers. IF you claim this I would suggest you pray more when you read the bible.

God sending wrath against Job by way of Satan huh? I say you need to read this book over again my friend. God doesn't send wrath on Job but lets(there's that word again) Satan test him. Perhaps you should rethink your belief on believeing in your first understanding of a passage. I've found I can be wrong just as often as I'm right about something I've read in scripture after further study.

Job was wrong in saying he was under Gods wrath. This is why God talks to him the way he did at the end of the book. God accuses Job of imbecility and does convince him of his ignorance. Plus Elihu also admonishes Job, why? because Job blames God!

Job was under trails and tribulations but not under Gods wrath. I've shown you only a few passages out of many that say the unrighteous are the only ones who are appointed for Gods wrath. But because God lets tribulation or Satan to test the righteous doesn't mean the righteous are under wrath from God through someone or something else. Besides whenever the bible speaks of the wrath of God it either says it's justifiable or it implies it. Job had done nothing to warrant wrath from God therefore what Job experienced was testing by Satan

 

 
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.