Four Great Beasts

NightHawkeye said:

Well ... as we've learned in the past couple of days, there are a lot of other heretical and lunatic views expressed on this forum, as well.
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Yeah.....pretty sad eh?

Now onward with the discussion........

InSpiritInTruth said:

The 4 beasts in Daniel chapter 7; the( lion, the bear, the leopard, and the terrible beast) would make up a total of 7 heads, or mountains on which the woman sits. During the time of the revelation given to John there were 6 heads fulfilled already. This is shown in Revelation 17:10 when John was told that 5 had already fallen, and the 6th was is, but the 7th was yet to come.

The 3 former beasts have already been fulfilled, and the last terrible beast is in place right now. It is (the remnant) of all those former kingdoms, and heads that came before it. The 7th head ( whose deadly wound that was healed) is the (final head) on this worldly beast.

This head was healed back in 1948 when the (little horn) of Israel would be brought back, after the previous 3 horns were plucked up by the root.

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

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I do have ears to hear, but I believe that healed head being healed happening in 1948 is hogwash. Sorry

Learn the sign of 7 sons, which was given to us in David.

7 sons of Jesse passed before the Lord, but the Lord did not choose any of these. The Lord would choose the 8th, which was David.

But wait! Jesse only had 7 sons, with David being the 7th, but who would also become the 8th.

As I said; " those who have ears to ear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying."

InSpiritInTruth said:

Learn the sign of 7 sons, which was given to us in David.

7 sons of Jesse passed before the Lord, but the Lord did not choose any of these. The Lord would choose the 8th, which was David.

But wait! Jesse only had 7 sons, with David being the 7th, but who would also become the 8th.

As I said; " those who have ears to ear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying."

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You misunderstood that Spirit for....


1 Samuel 17:12 Now David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehemjudah, whose name was Jesse; and he had eight sons: and the man went among men for an old man in the days of Saul.


1 Samuel 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.

16:5-9 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice. And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD's anointed is before him. But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said, Neither hath the LORD chosen this. Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said, Neither hath the LORD chosen this.


16:10-13 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The LORD hath not chosen these. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he. Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.


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The Lord sees not as a man sees.

1 Chronicles 2:13-15;"And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third, Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:"

Judge not based on appearances, but if you judge, judge the righteous judgment.

David became a new man in Christ after he was anointed with the Holy Spirit, thereby being not only the 7th, but also the 8th.

I do understand.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Learn the sign of 7 sons, which was given to us in David.

7 sons of Jesse passed before the Lord, but the Lord did not choose any of these. The Lord would choose the 8th, which was David.

But wait! Jesse only had 7 sons, with David being the 7th, but who would also become the 8th.

As I said; " those who have ears to ear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying."

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So?

InSpiritInTruth said:

The Lord sees not as a man sees.

1 Chronicles 2:13-15;"And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third, Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:"

Judge not based on appearances, but if you judge, judge the righteous judgment.

David became a new man in Christ after he was anointed with the Holy Spirit, thereby being not only the 7th, but also the 8th.

I do understand.

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I do not judge you Spirit...it is you judging others as not having eyes to see...or so it appears in the words you choose to use.



Jesse begat eight sons [1 Sam. 17:12]. In the above verse you quoted we are shown Jesse with seven. The reason is.....

"Seven are numbered and named and David is the seventh and youngest; the eighth may have died young and left no issue. While it was proper to mention the eight in the history, it is unncessary to do so in the geneaology." ~ E.W. Bullinger

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David was one of eight brothers. He was not one of seven that became the eighth.


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He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.

And what he has seen and heard, that he testifies; and no man recieves his testimony.

As I told you before, I do not recieve the testimony of man.

InSpiritInTruth said:

He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.

And what he has seen and heard, that he testifies; and no man recieves his testimony.

As I told you before, I do not recieve the testimony of man.

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Such hubris.


Okay. Do not accept the words of Bullinger...I don't agree with him on all things either. But, surely you do not place yourself above God? You must remember who did that and the consequences?

As it is Scriptural that Jesse had eight sons then...Jesse had eight sons, one of whom was David. The FACT, as given by Bullinger, that when a child dies without prodigy his name need not be reckoned in geneaology, doesn't stand alone in that particular instance.

We know that Adam was the father of Abel. You will not find Abel mentioned in the geneaology of Adam. Why? Because Cain slew Able. He did not have children. And remember Spirit, the following is given us by the Lord...this is not an earthly man teaching us......

There the specific number of "sons and daughters" isn't mentioned but....a specific number is mentioned in the offspring of Jesse and that number is....eight sons, ONE of whom was David.

Where you wrote...."David became a new man in Christ after he was anointed with the Holy Spirit, thereby being not only the 7th, but also the 8th,".....I would comment....Many of us have become "a new man" as did David but our parents still had the same number of sons and daughters....as did Jesse.




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I'm going to requote a passage that you may have missed....in case you are still having trouble saying, "oh gosh, I was wrong."


Do you see what the Lord says or are you going to stick with what you want it to say?



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The Lords sees not as a man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks upon the heart.

You judge based on appearances, therefore you cannot see how David is not only the 7th son but also the 8th, as the scriptures say; you cannot see because you are judging by sight, and not by the mind of the Spirit.

That is why Jesus said, judge not by appearance, but judge the righteous judgment.

InSpiritInTruth said:

The Lords sees not as a man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks upon the heart.

You judge based on appearances, therefore you cannot see how David is not only the 7th son but also the 8th, as the scriptures say; you cannot see because you are judging by sight, and not by the mind of the Spirit.

That is why Jesus said, judge not by appearance, but judge the righteous judgment.

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1. I am not judging. It is you saying others are not able to see.

2. David is not both a seventh and eighth son. David is one person, a new man certainly but still...one new man in the same body...as am I....as are you.

3. You are mistaken Spirit. The Scriptures DO NOT SAY what you wish them to say....It is InSpirit saying David is two entities...not God.

4. Jesus is the Word. The Word tells us Jesse had eight sons, one of whom was David. Seven of the sons were shown to Samuel and then the eighth came forward.


If you cannot see this truth then you may well be the one you accuse others of being...a man without eyes to see. If you can see the truth and yet won't admit you see then.....I would say you are earthly still....another something you accuse others of being. Your choice. Which is it? Can you see or are you so earthly you cannot admit a mistake, admit that you are human or....can you simply agree that you are mistaken on this point?

Remember, you wrote, "David became a new man in Christ after he was anointed with the Holy Spirit, thereby being not only the 7th, but also the 8th."


God wrote......Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The LORD hath not chosen these. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest,


NONE of the seven were chosen. Then David, the eighth, was brought in and then..... "the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he. Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward."



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1 Corinthians 15:46-47;"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

47."The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

As I said before, my witness is not my own, but that which the Lord has given me.

InSpiritInTruth said:

1 Corinthians 15:46-47;"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

47."The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

As I said before, my witness is not my own, but that which the Lord has given me.

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He didn't give you that mis-information Spirit...it came from your own thoughts. In other words...the witness is your own, the own being the earthly man.

You have failed to reconcile any of the quoted Scriptures that demonstrate you are mistaken on this point. Instead you profess to be spiritual and that the Lord has shown this to you. If that were so then He lied to all others. Did He? Would He? Could He?

So, I ask you again InSpirit, do you stand by your statement that David was both the seventh and eighth son of Jesse or, once searching the scriptures, do you see that those things were NOT so, that you misread the verse?

This is not a point that has anything to do with faith, love of God, salvation or anything of great importance but it does have to do with truth. And truth is always vital....even in minor matters. Do you see the truth in His written Words or are you still willing to discard them thinking you alone have been shown that David was two men, two sons?



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We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you recieve not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Because you do not understand, I am then a liar?

And because the majority is still in darkness, is God also without understanding?

Let the Lord be the judge who has spoken the Truth.

InSpiritInTruth said:

We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you recieve not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

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You are not telling me heavenly things InSpirit. It is not that I cannot receive spiritual witness but that I will not receive your witness for in this instance...your witness is a false witness. I refuse it.

If I see that you are teaching something contrary to what is written, attempting to pass it off as spiritual knowledge, then how could I ever trust you in another matter? It is either that God has lied to us in the scriptures on this subject or you are wrong.

God does not lie.

Because you do not understand, I am then a liar?

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Your problem sir is that I do understand for it is written, clearly written, so where does that leave us?

And because the majority is still in darkness, is God also without understanding?

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God's understanding is not in question.

Let the Lord be the judge who has spoken the Truth.

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He has spoken the truth and it is written (to borrow a phrase you often use) for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. And, I would add....for those that are truly spiritual and have put aside their carnal nature, their old man, their ego and are able to admit they misread a verse.


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