Arian doctrine.

Deut 5:29 · Sep 3, 2011

The Gregorian said:
Even in the KJV... 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Jesus himself called the father "Greater" than him and repeatedly stated that he did NOTHING on his own, but only what his father and God instructed/allowed him to. Arius didn't start the whole "monotheism" thing. That's been around since YHWH insisted on it in the hebrew scriptures and was bolstered the whole time Jesus was on earth.

Why, in Heb. 1, does God the Father call Jesus "O God" and "Lord"?

Truth_Warrior · Sep 3, 2011

Deut 5:29 said:
Why, in Heb. 1, does God the Father call Jesus "O God" and "Lord"?

The English language makes a clear distinction between God and god. Thus, in English Bibles, the heavenly Father is called God, while lesser divinities, people with Gods authority on earth and important people such as kings, are also called god (2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22).

The Hebrew and Aramaic languages cannot make the distinction between God and god. Since Hebrew and Aramaic have only capital letters, every use is GOD.

Furthermore, although the Greek language has both upper case and lower case letters as English does, the early Greek manuscripts did not blend them. It was the style of writing at the time of the New Testament to make manuscripts in all capital letters, so the Greek manuscripts were, like the Hebrew text, all upper case script. Scholars call these manuscripts uncials, and that style was popular until the early ninth century or so when a smaller script was developed for books

Deut 5:29 · Sep 3, 2011

Truth_Warrior said:
The English language makes a clear distinction between God and god. Thus, in English Bibles, the heavenly Father is called God, while lesser divinities, people with Gods authority on earth and important people such as kings, are also called god (2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22).

The Hebrew and Aramaic languages cannot make the distinction between God and god. Since Hebrew and Aramaic have only capital letters, every use is GOD.

Furthermore, although the Greek language has both upper case and lower case letters as English does, the early Greek manuscripts did not blend them. It was the style of writing at the time of the New Testament to make manuscripts in all capital letters, so the Greek manuscripts were, like the Hebrew text, all upper case script. Scholars call these manuscripts uncials, and that style was popular until the early ninth century or so when a smaller script was developed for books

Pleeeeze........

So you're saying that Jesus is not God but god?........... :doh:

PaladinValer · Sep 3, 2011

The English language does no such thing.

"god" as non-capitalized here means any perceived deity, including the Judeo-Christian-Muslim one.

God when capitalized here outside the beginning of a sentence usually refers to said god above.

All hail modern English grammar.

Truth_Warrior · Sep 3, 2011

Deut 5:29 said:
Pleeeeze........
So you're saying that Jesus is not God but god?...........

You are thinking in the day and time we live in.

In the culture of the 1st century Church god was used of those in authority.

2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22

The Semitic languages, and both the Latin and Greek spoken by the early Christians, used the word God with a broader meaning than we do today. God was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including great people, rulers and people acting with Gods authority.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The next verse even says Jesus has a God

God has no fellows or brothers nor does God need anointing.

Context......everything in context.

2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

A priest does what?
Once again God has no brethren.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Can you do greater works then God?

The God of logic and common sense has a Son who spoke these words.

Deut 5:29 · Sep 3, 2011

Truth_Warrior said:
You are thinking in the day and time we live in.
In the culture of the 1st century Church god was used of those in authority.
2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22
The Semitic languages, and both the Latin and Greek spoken by the early Christians, used the word God with a broader meaning than we do today. God was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including great people, rulers and people acting with Gods authority.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The next verse even says Jesus has a God

God has no fellows or brothers nor does God need anointing.
Context......everything in context.
2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

A priest does what?
Once again God has no brethren.

Joh 14:12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greaterworksthan these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Can you do greater works then God?

The God of logic and common sense has a Son who spoke these words.

God is a family, you know, Father and Son, with many more sons to be born into the Family of God.

Truth_Warrior · Sep 3, 2011

Deut 5:29 said:
God is a family, you know, Father and Son, with many more sons to be born into the Family of God.

God is not a family.

I have a family but my sons and daughters are not me.

You have verses to back that up?

Would love to discuss them.

here is a few things God is and is not.

Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

1Co_1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal_3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
fit that verse together with this one..........
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Jesus not only never said that himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent (John 17:3). This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to his Father and our Father.

God is one alone and God is not a family(he has a family which consists of Jesus Christ and all who make him Lord.

The Gregorian · Sep 3, 2011

Deut 5:29 said:
Why, in Heb. 1, does God the Father call Jesus "O God" and "Lord"?

Some translate it that way, sure. Before you draw a conclusion about Hebrews 1:8-9 in reference to Jesus, compare with Psalm 45:6-7 in reference to three Levite sons. Are the three sons gods?

The Gregorian · Sep 3, 2011

Truth_Warrior said:
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The next verse even says Jesus has a God

God has no fellows or brothers nor does God need anointing.

Context......everything in context.

Very well put.

David64 · Sep 4, 2011

Truth_Warrior said:
God is not a family.

I have a family but my sons and daughters are not me.

You have verses to back that up?

Would love to discuss them.

here is a few things God is and is not.

Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

1Co_1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal_3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
fit that verse together with this one..........
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Jesus not only never said that himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent (John 17:3). This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to his Father and our Father.

God is one alone and God is not a family(he has a family which consists of Jesus Christ and all who make him Lord.

There is one family since Jesus was born as a human.
Jo. 1:1-14 plainly tell us the Word, who became Jesus, was God and with another also known as God.
Also note Jo. 17:5.

The Gregorian · Sep 4, 2011

David64 said:
There is one family since Jesus was born as a human.
Jo. 1:1-14 plainly tell us the Word, who became Jesus, was God and with another also known as God.
Also note Jo. 17:5.

Correction: A questionable translation of John 1:1 suggests that Jesus was the one he was with. The Greek tells an entirely different story. Plenty of threads out there discussing the proper translation.

David64 · Sep 4, 2011

The Gregorian said:
Correction: A questionable translation of John 1:1 suggests that Jesus was the one he was with. The Greek tells an entirely different story. Plenty of threads out there discussing the proper translation.

No matter how you try to twist it there is one God with two distinct members
Father and Son making up a family that will have of many more members when many sons are brought to golry, brothers of Christ and sons of God the Father.

The Gregorian · Sep 4, 2011

Unless you go Read 1 Corinthians 8:6, which says the same thing in every translation. "There is for us only one God, the Father." The Son is our Lord, savior, messiah, king... but only the Father is God. Along with the countless times in the hebrew scriptures where God himself insisted that there was only one of him and that no one else is equal to him... or in Hebrews 1:9 where it specifically mentions that Jesus considers the Father "his God" or where Jesus specifically states that he is not equal with God and that the Father is "greater" than he is at John 14:28...

Haven't seen anyone provide reasoning to suggest that the above translations are inaccurate... only people who chose to ignore those verses in favor of a very questionable translation of John 1:1.

Truth_Warrior · Sep 5, 2011

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (NIV)

There is no question that Jesus existed before the world began. But............ did he exist literally as a person or in Gods foreknowledge, in the mind of God?

Both Christ and the corporate be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in Gods foreknowledge before being alive.

Christ was the logos, the plan and purpose of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived.

It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God.

When 2 Timothy 1:9 says that each Christian was given grace before the beginning of time, no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were in the mind of God, i.e., in Gods foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ IMHO. His glory was with the Father before the world began, and in John 17:5 he prayed that it would come into manifestation.

Jesus prayer in John 17 sets a wonderful example for us as Christians.

He poured out his heart to his Father, the only true God (John 17:3), and prayed that the prophecies of the Old Testament about him would be fulfilled.

You must also remember in context(always remember context) verse 3 just before this...............

Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

in context.........

Joh 17:8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have receivedthem,and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

A beautiful prayer to his God ( not some proof of him being God ,but just the opposite, is proof Jesus has a God and it was to his God he prayed)

The Gregorian · Sep 5, 2011

Indeed... all of John 17 is one of the most beautiful prayers ever. And Jesus is constantly giving full credit to his God and Father. I have no idea how a trinitarian can read John 17 and still believe Jesus was praying to himself.

Truth_Warrior · Sep 5, 2011

The Gregorian said:
Indeed... all of John 17 is one of the most beautiful prayers ever. And Jesus is constantly giving full credit to his God and Father. I have no idea how a trinitarian can read John 17 and still believe Jesus was praying to himself.

There are very few of us who can see this and I am not sure why.

When I came toknow Jesus 35 years ago this chapter I brought to the pastor of the Church and was told to just accept it as a mystey.

I continued to search and study to see this mystery and found that Jesus is not shrouded in mystery and his God and my God is not a mystery.........

I actually found the truth in John 1:1 when I researched what The Word (logos) really meant.

Jesus Christ was and is Gods purpose and plan from the very beginning to reconcile the world to himself by sending his Son the Last Adam and it is Jesus Christ who is our mediator and even in ressurection he is still a man.

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Arian doctrine.

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Traditional Orthodox Anglican

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Troll

Troll

David64

Guest

Troll

David64

Guest

Troll

Newbie

Troll

Newbie

Similar threads