Hebrews, the book that levels past and future temples.

I think there is a difference between being perfected in the flesh and obeying Gods will, if we obey Gods will and abstain from things according to His will, we're not being perfected in the flesh, instead we're obeying Gods will, and i would still need Grace for sure. Maybe no man will be like the Lord and be sinless, but there is a difference between obeying God by obeying his will coupled with His call to grace, and abolishing His will altogether using Grace for the purpose of justifying sin, that's the wide road that leads to death. How do i obey the greatest commandment if i don't obey Gods will? Do i need to be perfect or just seek it with a sincere heart by relying on God to help me? God knows my heart and He knows if i'm obeying or not, if i make a mistake Grace is always there for me. But there is no grace for those who ignore Gods will is there?

Frogster said:

See the problem is, in one breath you're pushing a certain view, yet in another, you're admitting it does not work, while you try to argue for the view that you admit, is not working.

But really, I'm trying to genrally keep this thread scriptural, and for the most part objective, and about Hebrews, not having it become a personal counsel thread.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it is difficult to stay on a topic and you will have those that may view it differently than you and I, especially the sabbatarian SDAs and MJs for example.
Onward thru the fog I say!

Judaism, and MJism.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Sometimes it is difficult to stay on a topic and you will have those that may view it differently than you and I, especially the sabbatarian SDAs and MJs for example.
Onward thru the fog I say!

Judaism, and MJism.

Click to expand...

As for the Sabbath i submit Romans 14 to any argument about it, for the sake of peace. Don't we risk hurting the Gospel by arguing over the Sabbath? If someone pushes Sabbath for a requirement of salvation Romans 14 seems like a good defense. If someone trashes the Sabbath, Romans 14 seems like a good defense. I guess we all like to argue, i know i do, (but i feel Gods Spirit correcting me when i do.) things tend to get boring without a little argument maybe, but maybe fellowship in the holy Spirit is so much better.


2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

I think my Hebrews scripture may have been wrong though..my bad, Its still NT doctrine though.

11822 said:

I think my Hebrews scripture may have been wrong though..my bad, Its still NT doctrine though.

Click to expand...

How does it differ from OT doctrine?

LittleLambofJesus said:

How does it differ from OT doctrine?

Click to expand...

How does what differ from OT doctrine? NT doctrine or the scripture referring to marriage?

11822 said:

How does what differ from OT doctrine? NT doctrine or the scripture referring to marriage?

Click to expand...

Either one

The scripture i posted or NT doctrine?

The only difference i can see is Grace through faith in Jesus is the only difference in NT doctrine and OC, OT doctrine, Grace and some laws being abolished that are only for OC purposes.

Am i right?

11822 said:

The only difference i can see is Grace through faith in Jesus is the only difference in NT doctrine and OC, OT doctrine, Grace and some laws being abolished that are only for OC purposes.

Click to expand...

This thread may be a good one to discuss that on

http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230-2/#post57234334
Are you under THE law, Grace or both (2)

LittleLambofJesus said:

This thread may be a good one to discuss that on

http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230-2/#post57234334
Are you under THE law, Grace or both (2)

Click to expand...

I agree, but the truth is the truth no matter what thread its on. If something seems misleading it should be discussed.

11822 said:

I agree, but the truth is the truth no matter what thread its on. If something seems misleading it should be discussed.

Click to expand...

Ok

LittleLambofJesus said:

Ok

Click to expand...

What should we do? Allow a debate on one thing to seem like a contradiction to the truth of Gods will and grace? I'm all for debating the topic, i gave opinion on it. How the topic is being discussed seems to invite contention over the truth of the Gospel. Saying that Grace affords us the right to ignore God is misleading. The topic is Jesus abolishing OC sacrificial laws as discussed in Hebrews, not all law because we are given 2 commandments that no one contests, and its about abolishing the OC, not Gods will. I am debating the topic at hand the best i can, i'm not trying to resurrect the OC.

Frogster said:

what day? I need to know what day, i am on a need to know basis?

Click to expand...

Boy ain't that a fact!

Frogster said:

7again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
"Today, if you hear his voice,do not harden your hearts."

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God

Click to expand...

What can I say? there remains a Sabbath Rest, it's not done away, and after Christ returns it will still be observed.

Right, I was thinking Hebrews 4 really seems to establish and remind of us the Sabbath day rather than dismiss it in any way.

JRSut1000 said:

Right, I was thinking Hebrews 4 really seems to establish and remind of us the Sabbath day rather than dismiss it in any way.

Click to expand...

Didn't the Jewish Passover fall on a sabbath?
Jesus kinda mentioned it to the Jews in Matt 24:19, and conincidentally, that is when Titus and the Romans encompassed Jerusalem

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a sabbath"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
*snip*

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........

JRSut1000 said:

Right, I was thinking Hebrews 4 really seems to establish and remind of us the Sabbath day rather than dismiss it in any way.

Click to expand...

Exactly!

LittleLambofJesus said:

Didn't the Jewish Passover fall on a sabbath?

Click to expand...

It does every few years but I don't know of one mentioned in the Bible.

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Didn't the Jewish Passover fall on a sabbath?

Click to expand...

Deut 5:29 said:

It does every few years but I don't know of one mentioned in the Bible.

Click to expand...

I went to hunt up a thread that might discuss that and found this one.

Why it is on the Unorthodox Theology board is beyond me

http://www.christianforums.com/t7444768-3/#post54214614
The Missing Passover

We are starting Passover here in Israel. But since the wheels of the Truth cannot stop rolling, I want to bring to your attention the Passover of the year 30 CE. It was supposed to be the last one that Jesus would partake of, and he missed it.

According to John 19:31, that Sabbath was a solemn Sabbath, which is what we call in Hebrew a Shabbaton. That's when a festival falls on the Sabbath. The KJV brings: "For that Sabbath day was a high day."