If God created sin, what does that mean for Christians?

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Hi guys

I've spent a couple of days on this forum in particular and I'm seeing a lot of arguments that God made sin and God didn't make sin.

My questions are these:

Why is it important if God did/didn't create sin?
If God did create sin, what does that mean for the average Christian?

The reason I'm asking is I'd like to understand a lot of whats been talked about on here but I find a lot of the discussions quite inpenetrable. Could someone offer a fairly simple explanation/answer?
 

elopez

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Why is it important if God did/didn't create sin?
If God did create sin, what does that mean for the average Christian?
It's vital because the issue lets us be more aware on the nature of God.

First it should be said that sin is not something that could be 'created,' as that is to equivocate the meaning of 'create' as sin does not consist of physical substance. What one means to say when they claim "created sin" is "caused sin." Well, what is sin?

Sin is the effect of acting against the will of God. In essence sin is moral evil. So even further then, when it is said god caused sin it is to say that god caused moral evil, which only means there would have had to been some type of act from god that was indeed evil. Basically if god 'created' sin he violates his own moral law.

We know this is not the case because of Scripture. God cannot sin as there is no sin or evil in His nature (1 John 1:5). Sin is something God detests, so He therefore would not create it (Psalms 6:16-19).
 
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Lord Herdsetk

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What a strange question. How do you create an act done by someone else? I think what you're really asking is, "Why did God create us with the ability to sin?"

Sin definitions:

commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law

estrangement from god

an act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will


My take on it is that free will = possibility of sin.....possibility of going against God's intentions. However, God wanted us to have free will, freedom of thinking, whatever you want to call it, so we are able to sin. If you notice back in Genesis, God doesn't say that His creation is perfect, He says that it is good. We've had the ability to violate God's law from the very beginning, and it wasn't until we did so that Adam and Eve were estranged from God.

So the ultimate question is, why would God want us to be capable to go against Him? Why does He place so much importance on human beings able to think deeply and choose what they will do? Why are we more than just instinctual, physical beings?
 
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visionary

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Hi guys

I've spent a couple of days on this forum in particular and I'm seeing a lot of arguments that God made sin and God didn't make sin.

My questions are these:

Why is it important if God did/didn't create sin?
If God did create sin, what does that mean for the average Christian?

The reason I'm asking is I'd like to understand a lot of whats been talked about on here but I find a lot of the discussions quite inpenetrable. Could someone offer a fairly simple explanation/answer?
iniquity [sin] was found and not created by God.
 
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OzSpen

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I'd say that God superintends sin to serve a purpose, having brought it about in His creation to accomplish good.
God did not create sin. He created human beings who made the choice to disobey God and sin. It is an heretical Gnostic doctrine to say that God created sin.
The original sin in Gnosticism
Many Gnostic sects (particularly the Ophites) saw the figure of the serpent as a divine benefactor and liberator of humanity, rather than as Satan, Lucifer, or any other ill-intentioned figure. They held that the world was created by the Demiurge, an imperfect creator who wished to rule it as a tyrant. However, the spirit of Christ interfered by possessing the serpent and telling Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Eating from this tree allowed Adam and Eve to have free will and thus defy, if need be, their Demiurge creator. Therefore, according to many Gnostics, what Christians call the Fall of Man was really the freeing of humanity’s minds and souls.
 
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OzSpen

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Hi guys

My questions are these:

Why is it important if God did/didn't create sin?
If God did create sin, what does that mean for the average Christian?
It's of absolute importance that God did not create sin/evil because it misrepresents the very nature of God. He is holy, perfect and absolutely good. Therefore, he cannot create sin/evil.


  • God is holy: Leviticus 19:2, "You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy".
  • God's perfection: Psalm 18:30, "This God-his way is perfect [or blameless]".
  • God's goodness: Luke 18:19, "No one is good except God alone".
So, the God whose attributes are holiness, perfection and goodness could not create sin. It would be contradictory to His very nature.

Scripture never blames God for sin. Theologian Wayne Grudem has put it accurately,
If we ever begin to think that God is to blame for sin, we have thought wrongly about God's providence, for it is always the creature, not God who is to be blamed.... God has ordained that our actions do have effects. God has ordained that events will come about by our causing them (Systematic Theology, 1994, Zondervan, pp. 333-334, emphasis in original).
Sincerely, Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Does God exploit sin for good?
The language of "exploit" is carnal sinful language. It is not from the courts of God. God can do absolutely nothing that has even the whiff of exploitation in it because he is absolutely good, absolutely holy and absolutely perfect as I showed in my previous post.

We sinful human beings can't get a handle on the absolute holiness of God that has no conniving in His nature. There is nothing of sin, exploitation, cunning, or any such like in His nature. His attributes are the opposite of what we consider as sin.

God could never create sin.

Sincerely, Oz
 
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Tzaousios

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God did not create sin. He created human beings who made the choice to disobey God and sin. It is an heretical Gnostic doctrine to say that God created sin.

The language of "exploit" is carnal sinful language. It is not from the courts of God.

Those are some pretty belligerent charges against Heymikey80, OzSpen. I wonder if they have to do more with you knowing (and not liking) Mikey's particular theological persuasion than anything else?
 
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Jpark

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Hi guys

I've spent a couple of days on this forum in particular and I'm seeing a lot of arguments that God made sin and God didn't make sin.

My questions are these:

Why is it important if God did/didn't create sin?
If God did create sin, what does that mean for the average Christian?

The reason I'm asking is I'd like to understand a lot of whats been talked about on here but I find a lot of the discussions quite inpenetrable. Could someone offer a fairly simple explanation/answer?
Simple huh? Sure.

God ordained that Satan manifest a desire which eventually became known as sin.

Gen. 4:7
And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: devil beginning

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 3:9-13 [God demonstrates awareness of the situation by confronting Adam like father does to a child]

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it...

In other words, conception (idea) of sin was created by God. Sin comes from Satan.
 
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thisnamztaken

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About as simply as I can state it, is that God didn't want to create robots or puppets but created the angels as well as human beings with a free will so that He could interact in a loving, personal, relationship with them/us.

The angels that sinned, freely chose to sin and rebel against God (Isa. 14:12-15; Jude 6), as did Adam and Eve (Gen.3:6). God is Spirit, and cannot sin (Jn. 4:24; I Jn. 3:9).
 
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heymikey80

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The language of "exploit" is carnal sinful language. It is not from the courts of God. God can do absolutely nothing that has even the whiff of exploitation in it because he is absolutely good, absolutely holy and absolutely perfect as I showed in my previous post.
Nonsense. God brings calamity, He says so.

I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.’
Is 45:6-7

God does plenty of things that would have negative connotations for us. God can do anything He wishes to do -- and often He says He does so.

God does not have to have a "come to Jesus" meeting with every source of evil in the world before He can even proceed to use evil for good purposes.

No, instead,

12There they cry out, but he does not answer,
because of the pride of evil men.
13Surely God does not hear an empty cry,
nor does the Almighty regard it.
14How much less when you say that you do not see him,
that the case is before him, and you are waiting for him!
15And now, because his anger does not punish,
and he does not take much note of transgression,
16Job opens his mouth in empty talk;
he multiplies words without knowledge.
Job 35:12-16
We sinful human beings can't get a handle on the absolute holiness of God that has no conniving in His nature. There is nothing of sin, exploitation, cunning, or any such like in His nature. His attributes are the opposite of what we consider as sin.

God could never create sin.
without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1:3
 
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Pinkman

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God did not create sin. He created human beings who made the choice to disobey God and sin. It is an heretical Gnostic doctrine to say that God created sin.

In the beginning was a void. Not even empty space. All creation is created by God and that must also include sin. Who created the serpent if God did not ?

God not only foresaw the fall off the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity: but also at his own pleasure arranged it.”
Calvin's Institutes Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7

Why God did this is another matter. Ultimately he is the potter and we are the clay. It is not for us to know.
 
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OzSpen

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In the beginning was a void. Not even empty space. All creation is created by God and that must also include sin. Who created the serpent if God did not ?

God not only foresaw the fall off the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity: but also at his own pleasure arranged it.”
Calvin's Institutes Book 3, Ch 23, Section 7

Why God did this is another matter. Ultimately he is the potter and we are the clay. It is not for us to know.
No, God created human beings who then chose to sin. God created a serpent who then chose to sin and become Lucifer (we don't have information, to my knowledge, of when and how that happened).

God created two innocent human beings in the beginning who chose to sin. God did not create the sin.
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one (James 1:13 ESV).
And ...
God is light; and in him there is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5 NIV).
Oz
 
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Pinkman

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No, God created human beings who then chose to sin. God created a serpent who then chose to sin and become Lucifer (we don't have information, to my knowledge, of when and how that happened).

God created two innocent human beings in the beginning who chose to sin. God did not create the sin.
And ...
Oz

Myth put about by arminians and also weak Calvinists.

God arranged the hour and second when Eve sinned. Calvin makes it clear

"Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree." "And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision..”

Calvinism is Christian doctrine is Calvinism.

Dreadful but tough. Get used to it.
 
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ThatWhichIsnt

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Darkness is just the absence of light, and cold is just the absence of heat. In the same way, sin is just the absence or deviation of our holy God and His nature. God created man, and man fell into idolatry of power. He gave us the power to sin, however that does not give us the right.
 
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OzSpen

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Myth put about by arminians and also weak Calvinists.

God arranged the hour and second when Eve sinned. Calvin makes it clear

"Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree." "And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision..”

Calvinism is Christian doctrine is Calvinism.

Dreadful but tough. Get used to it.
You have made assertions and quoted Calvin, but you have not refuted my position from Scripture.

Presupposition is presupposition is presupposition and that drove your response to me.

Oz
 
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Tzaousios

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You have made assertions and quoted Calvin, but you have not refuted my position from Scripture.

Presupposition is presupposition is presupposition and that drove your response to me.

Whereas your particular presupposition stems only from simple, plain, clear reading of only what the Bible says? I hope you do not expect readers to acquiesce to such a rhetorically-inflected claim.
 
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OzSpen

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Whereas your particular presupposition stems only from simple, plain, clear reading of only what the Bible says? I hope you do not expect readers to acquiesce to such a rhetorically-inflected claim.
You are into making unproven assertions - AGAIN.

Oz
 
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