The Bible an Idol

Ajax 777 · Aug 25, 2011

mrmccormo said:
People in this thread are making a fantastic fuss about the differences between "knowing about God" and "knowing God". Yes, in your romantic Song of Solomon fantasy, God is your lover and you just chat it up with Him all day long.

Gee, and here I thought we were supposed to approach our salvation with fear and trembling (and that comes from a NT verse, for those who might want to claim that was the "old way" God did things).

The Bible is not simply a book. It isn't just a collection of interesting writings. The Bible is the Word of God. You can make a big deal out of hearing God in your head, but another way to hear Him is to read the words that He already said. And guess what? There will be no confusion. You won't have to test the spirits. You won't have to battle against deception and false voices. It'll just be you listening directly to what God has said.

If you want to "hear from God", then it would do you well to wake up and realize that He has already spoken...a LOT! And it was recorded in this convenient little book called "The Bible".

Oh, but is that not "personal" enough?

I guess it boils down to this: are we more concerned about having a relationship with God based on truth or based on the fuzzy tingles that run down our spine? I've had those fuzzy tingles many, many times, but I can tell you right now that it is not the foundation of my relationship with our Lord and Savior.

QFT, AMEN, REPS, and all that!!!

Beautifully put, too!

murjahel · Aug 25, 2011

We are discussing if the Bible can
become an 'idol', and whether
it is preferable to therefore listen
only to God's voice...

God's voice to us is valuable and
wonderful...
The Bible is also God's voice in a
written form, still powerful, still
as living as His spoken words just said...

We should not choose between,
we should have both...
The Written Word though helps determine
whose spoken voice we are hearing though,
for the devil not only tries to pervert
the interpretations of the Written Word,
he also mimicks God's spoken voice,
and the counterfeit voices fool many...

Many cults and false religions are started
bu a false ANGEL OF LIGHT.
These voices are demons or fallen angels of deception.

One thing to remember is Satan and his workers are mimickers.

For such men are false apostles,
deceitful workmen, masquerading
as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
It is not surprising, then,
if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness.
Their end will be what their actions deserve."
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

So, if a person wants us to believe
a voice, that has no Biblical, written Word
of God confirmation, we are to see them
as false apostles, workers of evil.

Mormons...

Of Moroni's first appearance on the night of September 21, 1823, Joseph Smith recorded:

After I had retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God for forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that I might know of my state and standing before him. While I was thus in the act of calling upon God,
I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday,
when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside,
standing in the air.
He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness.
It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen.
His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. His whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning
[JSH 1:29-32].

That was not of God,
not anything confirmable in the
Written Word of God,
but it was compelling, and the
hearer was convinced that
what was said was from God...
it happens over and over yet today,
if mankind does not use the
Written Word as a test
to any spoken words,
from whatever source.

Islam

The Islamic faith is centered
on the belief in one evil spirit, they call god, Allah.

The Muslims believe that Muhammad
was visited by an angel of light
from whom he received God's final revelation.
Muhammad claimed that this was Gabriel
of the Bible.
These visions were recorded in the Koran.
The teachings of this religion
were supposed to have
come from that 'voice' and they taught even that
Jesus would return,
but not as Lord and King of kings,
but to come back,
denouce that He had ever been crucified,
and had not been resurrected,
and He will then kill all who believe Jesus had been...
That is evil... but from a voice, and definitely
in disagreement with the Bible...

Even innocent children
can be fooled by 'voices, visions'
done by demons, not by God

on May 13, 1917
three children took their flocks out to
pasture in the Cova da Iria.

They suddenly saw a bright flash of something like lightning, followed quickly by another flash in the clear blue sky.

then they saw

"a lady, clothed in white, brighter than the sun, radiating a light more clear and intense than a crystal cup filled with sparkling water, lit by burning

sunlight."

The evil spirit pretended to be Mary and said:
"Do not be afraid, I will not harm you."
More was told, but it was not 'mary',
it was demonic deception...

These events cannot be condoned or believed
if we follow the Bible and its teachings..

Buddhism

"There were stars all around me and I felt a profound sense of peace. Then a Goddess appeared before me. She was sitting on a lotus and had her right hand up with her open palm facing me. It was glowing with bright white light. Her facial features were so gentle, so compassionate and loving. I knew her to be Kwan Yin. I spent some time connecting with her and letting her nurturing energy fill me up. She gave me several messages, the most memorable being to take care of myself"

Are we to all become 'buddhists' due

to this voice and others that followed?
NO...
why not?
The Bible does not confirm these words.

One fooled preacher , who became a
false teacher due to this failure related this:

"As I stared at the angel with open eyes, the Lord said, “Here’s Emma.” I’m not kidding. She floated a couple of inches off the floor. It was almost like Kathryn Khulman in those old videos when she wore a white dress and looked like she was gliding
across the platform. Emma appeared beautiful and young-about 22 years old-but she was old at the same time. She seemed to carry the wisdom, virtue and grace of Proverbs 31 on her life.

She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people."

Do you see the pattern?
The Bible is our guide and test to see
if the voices we hear are from God,
or a demonic impersonator of God and of
angels, and of saints...

There are only two religions in the world, false doctrines of satan
vs. Biblical Christianity.

The Bible is the essential test

of all voices...
The devil would like to remove
that spiritual guide that God provided
for us to test all voices and visions..

Cults, false religions, heresies
have started due to not doing
that...
The Bible is not an 'idol'
it is God's Written guidebook for us...

Surely some pervert the message of the Bible...
but we know the 'Source' of the Bible,
and it is the 'infallible Word of God'...

with spoken words,
one does not know the source for sure,
and the only sure source is the Bible...
so... we need it...

Tamara224 · Aug 25, 2011

murjahel said:
We are discussing if the Bible can
become an 'idol', and whether
it is preferable to therefore listen
only to God's voice...

Really, Murj? Really? After countless posts all saying that NO ONE thinks we should stop reading the Bible, you still want to go with this?

Is honesty really too much to ask for from you?

brokenandhumbled · Aug 25, 2011

The Written Word though helps determine
whose spoken voice we are hearing though,
for the devil not only tries to pervert
the interpretations of the Written Word,
he also mimicks God's spoken voice,
and the counterfeit voices fool many...

murjahel

Amen and Amen!

If we do not read His word... How can we know HIS voice when He speaks?

Tamara224 · Aug 25, 2011

brokenandhumbled said:
If we do not read His word... How can we know HIS voice when He speaks?

How did Abraham know His voice?

Faulty · Aug 25, 2011

Tamara224 said:
How did Abraham know His voice?

Scripture doesn't tell us, but how do you know Abraham knew His voice?

Tamara224 · Aug 25, 2011

Faulty said:
Scripture doesn't tell us, but how do you know Abraham knew His voice?

Because he listened to It and did what It said.

Tamara224 · Aug 25, 2011

Have you ever noticed in Scripture how the "word of the Lord" was always coming to people and people were never going to it? (Or carrying it around with them).

Genesis 15:1
After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.

Genesis 15:4
Then the word of the LORD came to him: This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.

1 Samuel 15:10
Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel:

2 Samuel 7:4
But that night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying:

1 Kings 6:11
The word of the LORD came to Solomon:

1 Kings 13:20
While they were sitting at the table, the word of the LORD came to the old prophet who had brought him back.

1 Kings 16:1
Then the word of the LORD came to Jehu son of Hanani concerning Baasha:

1 Kings 16:7
Moreover, the word of the LORD came through the prophet Jehu son of Hanani to Baasha and his house, because of all the evil he had done in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger by the things he did, becoming like the house of Jeroboamand also because he destroyed it.

1 Kings 17:2
Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah:

1 Kings 17:8
Then the word of the LORD came to him:

1 Kings 18:1
After a long time, in the third year, the word of the LORD came to Elijah: Go and present yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the land.

1 Kings 19:9
There he went into a cave and spent the night. And the word of the LORD came to him: What are you doing here, Elijah?

1 Kings 21:17
Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite:

1 Kings 21:28
Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite:

2 Kings 20:4
Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him:

1 Chronicles 22:8
But this word of the LORD came to me: You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. You are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight.

2 Chronicles 11:2
But this word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God:

2 Chronicles 12:7
When the LORD saw that they humbled themselves, this word of the LORD came to Shemaiah: Since they have humbled themselves, I will not destroy them but will soon give them deliverance. My wrath will not be poured out on Jerusalem through Shishak.

Isaiah 38:4
Then the word of the LORD came to Isaiah:

And there are five more pages worth ...

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: word lord came

If Scripture teaches us anything, then, isn't it that we should expect for the word of the Lord to be coming to us? I think so.

And yes, guys, yes! The reason I know this is because I've studied Scripture. Clearly, then, I am NOT advocating that anyone not study Scripture.

Study. But don't just hold it in such high reverence that your "study" leaves you with less knowledge and understanding than when you began. Learn from it. Pay attention to what it teaches. It teaches us that God speaks to people, that the word of God comes to us. The Word of God is in us. Emmanuel, God with us.

murjahel · Aug 25, 2011

Deuteronomy 17:14-20 (KJV)
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
...
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

The kings of Israel were to copy the law,
the five books of the Pentateuch,
immediately upon becoming the king.

This copying process, using a scroll and ink,
is estimated to take 900 hours.
If they worked a seven day week,
at ten hours a day,
it would take nearly 13 weeks.
That is the first 3 months of their kingship.

Certainly, to God, this was a vital job to be done.

Yet, few, if any, of the kings did this.
Obviously, few would love the Word
enough today to do it...

If David had copied the law,
became familiar again with
what God has commanded of us,
perhaps the temptation of viewing Bathsheba,
lusting after her,
consummating a relationship with her,
getting her pregnant,
and finally, having her husband killed,
so he could marry her,
would have been far different.

But, he did all that.

The scars of sin, of shame, of guilt bothered him
for a long time.
His healing began when Nathan came and exposed his inner guilt.

Psalms 51 record his repentant prayer to God.

The books of the law were not only not copied,
they were lost.
Even the copy of the priests, in the Temple,
was lost, until it was found in Josiahs day.

He took the book and read it to the people.

When they heard it, they repented,
and revival ensued during the days of Josiah.

He destroyed the idols, and the law was enforced.

This was ended quickly,
once Josiah was no longer king.
The next king did not try to study the Word,
to follow its messages...

The readng of the law,
the following of the law,
has great effect on a person, on a nation.

When prayer and Bible reading was allowed
in public schools in the United States,
there were far happier, successful students.
And the school shootings, pregnancy rates, and abortion attitudes were far different.

Joshua, was not a king, yet, he did take this to heart, and meditated upon the Word, the law of God.
This gave him and the nation, good success.
His seldom failures were costly, but they were few, for he knew the law.

Joshua 1:6-9 (KJV)
6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.
7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

There are so many voices, human, satanic, and God...
that want to give direction.

Listening to the voices around us, near us, can cause changes in us.
The Word tells us to meditate on the Word, to heed the speakings of the Lord to our lives.

Yet, many prefer to read the Mayan prediction that the world ends in 2012,
than to read the Book of Revelation.

The horoscopes get read by many,
the unsaved talk shows on television
get much attention,
the counsel of neighbors and of family get heard,
but few are filling their minds
with the Word of God.

Psalm 1:1-3 (KJV)
1 Blessed is the man that
walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted
by the rivers of water,
that bringeth forth his fruit in his season;
his leaf also shall not wither;
and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Jehosophat heeded the law (II Chronicles 17:9),
and so did Hezekiah (II Chronicles 30:16, 31:3-4, 21).
Most of the rest totally ignored the law.

In our days, we find many ignoring Gods Word.

There was great reason for God to want the kings to write and know the law of God.

Knowing the law taught them to reverence the Lord.

Deuteronomy 17:19 (KJV)
19 And it shall be with him,
and he shall read therein all the days of his life:
that he may learn to fear the LORD his God,
to keep all the words of this law
and these statutes, to do them:

Knowing the Word of God
would make the king more humble,
and his leadership more in helping others,
than in caring only for himself.

Deuteronomy 17:20 (KJV)
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren,
and that he turn not aside from the commandment,
to the right hand, or to the left:
to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom,
he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

Knowing the Word of God, one can help in our healings,
by giving us direction from the One
Who knows all things,
the One Who can heal the hurts of life.

K2K · Aug 26, 2011

murjahel said:
Deuteronomy 17:14-20 (KJV)

14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
...
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:

The first words I heard spoken to me were, "READ YOU BIBLE", so I did and do to this day. My Lord once told me:

"WHAT TEACHER DOESNT PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DONT TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!

So because of what I hear from Him, I tell people to listen to Him, knowing that He is going to tell them to study their Bible. Yet studying your Bible does not meaing that you are listening to Him. The Pharisees studied the Scriptures, and indeed Jewish Rabbi's to this day study the Scriptures but that does not mean they know the Lord!!!

That was why Jesus told the Jews that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they have eterenal life, but that they were unwilling to come to Him so that they might live.

God gives us eternal life, but the Scriptures don't according to what Jesus Chrsit said!! The gospel of John starts, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."

Now today we call both the Scriptures (which don't give us eternal life according to what Jesus said) and Jesus Christ (whose small voice we hear) the Word of God. But it is important to understand that knowing the Scriptures is not the same think as knowing the Lord!!!

I try to turn and listen to the voice of the Lord a number of times each day, and do hear from Him when I do. I also make a special time for Him each morning, and He has specfically told me to have a Bible handy when I do. Most mornings He has me in the Bible, and teaches me from it.

Today, for example, He had me in Psalms 77. I didn't know where I would open my Bible today until He actually told me.

Ps 77:11,12 I shall remember the deeds of the Lord; Surely I will remember Your wonders of old. I will meditate on all Your work...

So it is important to read and study the Bible, but Jesus told Mary that only one thing was truly necessary, and that was not reading the Bible but sitting and listening to Him like Mary was doing.

If you have been listening to Him, you not only have Scriptures to quote, but also have things He has told you to pass on also.

Since it is my desire that people should come to know the One I hear from; I quote Scripture, tell them that He can be heard from, and tell them things that I heard Him tell me, so they might understand that the Word of God I preach is near you. He is not in some far off place called heaven, so as to have had to leave the Scriptures for you to study and learn from by yourself.

He once told me:

TWO MEN WERE WALKING DOWN THE ROAD, ONE TRIPED OVER SOMETHING HE DIDNT SEE, THE OTHER DIDNT BECAUSE HE WAS PAYING ATTENTION.

and:

IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!

and:

ITS BETTER TO FALL ON THE ROCK THAN TO HAVE THE ROCK FALL ON YOU, BUT ISNT IT BEST TO CLIMB ONTO THE ROCK TO GET HIGHER?

Is 8:14 The He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Isreal, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over.

Rm 9:31, 32 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law, Why? Becaise they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written.

Jesus Christ, is called the Word of God because we can hear from Him. But for those that do not want to seek Him and perfer to lean on their own knowledge and understanding, instead of seeking His voice, the very fact that He can be heard from but they are unwilling to seek Him, causes them to stumble over Him. They are just not paying attention to Him (the Rock) who they can not see with their fleshy eyes.

You have to believe that He exists so as to be heard from, to be able to hear from Him. If you believe and seek Him, you will find Him and will not be disappointed. Yet if you are unwilling to believe, even the testimony in the Scriptures that you study and say that you believe, will not help you.

So don't say, the Bible heals, the Bible saves, and the Bible is my friend. Don't make your life about searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of turning to Him for eternal life! If you do, He as the Word of God becomes a rock of offense.

1 Peter The precious value, then is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNE STONE", and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word...

Deut 8:20 ... you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, not do they understand.

mrmccormo · Aug 26, 2011

probinson said:
Wow. This post is all over the place. But I'll try to respond to it...

Are you suggesting we should not commune with God? It kind of sounds like you're mocking the idea that God never leaves us nor forsakes us, and that because of Jesus we have the ability to boldly approach His throne.

Of course I'm not suggesting that. This thread is about an extreme - people who read the Bible academically yet do not let God's Word penetrate their heart. The "remedy" many here suggest is that we listen to God, let Him speak to our hearts, etc. I am showing the other extreme as a way to help frame our discussion.

probinson said:
Actually, the really old way God did things was to talk directly with Adam and Eve. Jesus' sacrifice makes that possible for us as well.

If one is reading the Bible with the correct motive and intent, I agree with you. But if a person has made the Bible their idol, knowingly or unknowingly, they can very easily get it wrong. They could search the scriptures day and night and never "get it" if they're idolizing scripture and reading with wrong intentions and/or motives.

I disagree with you here. I could be misunderstanding you, but you make it sound as if a person who is reading the Bible with "wrong motives" isn't going to get anything beneficial out of it. Or, if someone is reading it with wrong motives, it won't lead them to the truth. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Can a person come to the knowledge of Christ's salvation through reading the Scriptures? Absolutely. As such, I would say it doesn't matter one bit if they're reading the Bible with the "right" or "wrong" motives, because it is the power and grace of the Holy Spirit that will lead them to salvation.

In my eyes, reading with the wrong motives is just a symptom of a bigger issue: rejecting the living Holy Spirit Who works in our lives to draw us to Christ.

probinson said:
Yes, and you would also do you well to wake up and realize that God didn't STOP speaking at the end of that convenient little book called "The Bible". He's still speaking today.

No one here is claiming that God stopped speaking. He speaks both corporately and privately. However, let's allow humility to do its work here and let's realize that there is a difference between the Words that were spoken to the Apostles (which became NT Scripture) and that everyday guiding voice people hear from God. Even Paul said "this doesn't come from God, it comes from me" in regards to topics that he wasn't quite sure if it was God-breathed or just a personal opinion. Moving along...

probinson said:
Again, it depends on the intentions and motives a person has while reading their Bible. A person who reads their Bible to know God more is not idolizing it. A person who reads it so they can boast about their scriptural knowledge is.

Again, I disagree. Our intentions are always going to be selfish and sinful apart from the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. We could be reading the Bible or a Playboy magazine, it makes no difference. No intervention from God will result in no salvation. Yet, with the intervention of the Holy Spirit, we could be reading either the Bible or a Playboy magazine and the gentle correction and calling of the Holy Spirit is all it takes to bring us to the knowledge of Him Who Saves. But you tell me: between the Bible and a Playboy, which one is better at opening the door to the knowledge of Christ?

probinson said:
Where the heck did that come from? Nothing you've said supports this conclusion whatsoever, nor has anyone suggested that we should base our relationship with God on "fuzzy tingles".

The thread is about one extreme - people who idolize the Bible. The "remedy" offered is listening to God. I am pointing out the opposite extreme to help us frame the conversation.

probinson said:
Further, you seem to be implying that to wish to speak to God or hear from God though a means other than the Bible is relegated to "fuzzy tingles", but I doubt that the authors of the Bible, who all wrote what God spoke to them so that we could read it, approached the idea of God's spoken words to them with such frivolity.

I don't imply that at all. See the above post.

murjahel · Aug 26, 2011

In the cases where 'the Word of
the Lord came' to those people,
they wrote it down, for us
to also benefit from it...

the Word of the Lord can come now
to us to, and hopefully for all of us
here it does come to us....

as the Bible tells us,
'holy men of old spake as they
were moved of the Spirit'
and they spoke the words they were
given, and wrote them down,
and 'all Scripture ' was 'given'
by the Spirit,
and those written words are
'profitable' for us...

Yes, the messages of God are
both written and spoken...
both are profitable doctrine,
correction, rebuke, encouragement...

neither contradicts the other,
for God has not changed His mind...

murjahel · Aug 26, 2011

God reads the Bible...
which version does He read???

The versions of the translation
of God's written Word have errors,
mostly minor ones in many versions,
some major ones in some versions...

God spoke those words, but
He tells us in the Bible that He
reads different versions, but which
ones does He read??

(I know some of you are about to
stone me for the words I just wrote,
but give me a minute before you do...
LOL)

The law they of the O.T. period read was the Pentateuch.
That law is now fulfilled, and we read about it,
and truly understand the new commandment
given to us by Jesus.
The old law, could be copied, could be read, but still was easy to totally ignore.
God wanted a better way.
Jesus came to reveal that way.

Hebrews 8:7-13 (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
　
Hebrews 10:1-10 (KJV)
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The old covenant is far different than the new covenant.
The reading of the law, the meditating upon it, only revealed their sins, their failures of the law.

The new covenant, is a relationship, where the law is not written on parchment, but on our hearts, on our minds.
We read the Bible, we talk to Jesus,
since He is always with us...
We learn from His written Word what
all He has done, and we speak to Him
daily.
As Jesus teaches us, His Word is
written upon our hearts...
His Word, written and spoken, harmonize
into a version we understand...

The old law revealed the weakness of the flesh,
the new law, when written on our minds release
the power of the Spiirt of God to transform our hearts to living the law of Christ.

The old law was a bondage,
the new law is a liberty.
We still do not kill, steal, lie, etc,
but now, we do not do those
things, because we love God, and our
neighbor... The law is fulfilled
by that love. The commandment of love
is written on our hearts.

We love the 'Word of God' that is
written, we love the spoken words of the
Lord too...
and both are written upon our hearts...
that we think and live them...

Galatians 5:1 (KJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The laws the kings were to copy made people realize their guilt.
The new law of Christ justifies.

Romans 3:21-25 (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 5:1-2 (KJV)
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Hebrews 10:15-16 (KJV)
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

The new law is not written by us on parchment, to be read, and to attempt to be obedient to it.
The new law is written by the Lord upon our heart,
it becomes part of us.
We do not keep the law by trying, we are transformed into a new person, a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 8:6-13 (KJV)
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

see part 2

murjahel · Aug 26, 2011

part 2

We read the Bible, we struggle to understand
and correct any mistranslations, misinterpretations
taught, we share its message with others,
but while we do all that,
the Lord is speaking to us,
His Word is speaking to us,
and both those messages are being
written down our our hearts...

God is reading our Version on
our hearts...

The law is now being written on our hearts, in our minds, into our person, by the Lord. It is no longer a work done by ourselves, and to be learned, remembered, not forgotten. It is becoming, as we allow God, to be written into our person, becoming part of us.

We do not have to keep the law, the law is now much shorter. We have to love God supremely, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves. That shortened version written on our hearts, will cause us to never steal from our neighbor, never kill one we love, never curse Gods name, never break the former laws given to us, for... we have Gods love written on our hearts.

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

The man knew the law,
but did not let it be written on His life,
to make Him live the law....
Knowing the Bible does not save,
knowing what Jesus spoke to Him did not save
him...

He had to write that message on his heart,
and allow it to rule his life, to be saved...
He had to commit to Jesus, leave
all other loves go...
But on that man's heart was written,
"I love my possessions more'.

Jesus read his version, and did not
accept the man... the man did not accept
Jesus' words.

This new heart is a new mind, transformed.

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The new writings of the law of love, on the hearts of Gods children, make it possible for us to live a life far different than before. With love written on our hearts, we do not want to steal, kill, etc. The keeping of the law is easy.

Ezekiel 11:18-20 (KJV)
18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

The Lord has us listen to His spoken
words, read His written words,
and our hearts should then have written
on them what we accept and believe...

That version is what God reads...
yours...

what does yours say?

do you love? has your cruel,
mean, rebellious, message been
replaced with what Jesus is trying
to have written on your heart?

If it has, you will walk in His statutes,
you will obey Him out of love,
not out of trying to force yourself....

Jesus reads your version,
watches what it makes you say by
your actions...
He saved you to write His message
on your heart...
He reads you to see what you let
be written..

Romans 8:1-5 (KJV)

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

It is great to hear Jesus, to read
the Book about Jesus,
and Jesus loves to read what we
have allowed from those messages,
to be written upon our hearts,
what do we believe from
God's Words..?

probinson · Aug 26, 2011

mrmccormo said:
Of course I'm not suggesting that. This thread is about an extreme - people who read the Bible academically yet do not let God's Word penetrate their heart. The "remedy" many here suggest is that we listen to God, let Him speak to our hearts, etc. I am showing the other extreme as a way to help frame our discussion.

Fair enough.

But if indeed the problem is that people are reading the Bible academically and refusing to let God penetrate their heart, how is the remedy to continue simply reading the Bible? Isn't that the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

mrmccormo said:
I disagree with you here. I could be misunderstanding you, but you make it sound as if a person who is reading the Bible with "wrong motives" isn't going to get anything beneficial out of it. Or, if someone is reading it with wrong motives, it won't lead them to the truth. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Can a person come to the knowledge of Christ's salvation through reading the Scriptures? Absolutely. As such, I would say it doesn't matter one bit if they're reading the Bible with the "right" or "wrong" motives, because it is the power and grace of the Holy Spirit that will lead them to salvation.

Not if they're not listening to the Holy Spirit in the first place.

Now I would say that it is quite possible that someone reading the Bible with wrong intentions and motives might very well be changed and learn something from it, because I believe God is much bigger than our intentions and motives and often does things in spite of us. But that doesn't mean we should just give up and do whatever we like, expecting God to work in spite of bad intentions and motives.

mrmccormo said:
In my eyes, reading with the wrong motives is just a symptom of a bigger issue: rejecting the living Holy Spirit Who works in our lives to draw us to Christ.

Right. So if they're rejecting the Holy Spirit, Who leads and guides us into all Truth, how is more reading of scripture going to cure that issue?

mrmccormo said:
No one here is claiming that God stopped speaking.

No one here is claiming that we should stop reading the Bible. Join the club.

mrmccormo said:
He speaks both corporately and privately. However, let's allow humility to do its work here and let's realize that there is a difference between the Words that were spoken to the Apostles (which became NT Scripture) and that everyday guiding voice people hear from God. Even Paul said "this doesn't come from God, it comes from me" in regards to topics that he wasn't quite sure if it was God-breathed or just a personal opinion. Moving along...

What is the difference that you believe we should realize between what God speaks to us today and what is contained in scripture?

mrmccormo said:
Again, I disagree. Our intentions are always going to be selfish and sinful apart from the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. We could be reading the Bible or a Playboy magazine, it makes no difference. No intervention from God will result in no salvation. Yet, with the intervention of the Holy Spirit, we could be reading either the Bible or a Playboy magazine and the gentle correction and calling of the Holy Spirit is all it takes to bring us to the knowledge of Him Who Saves. But you tell me: between the Bible and a Playboy, which one is better at opening the door to the knowledge of Christ?

I truly don't understand the fascination some in this forum seem to have with using Playboy magazine to make their point, but I digress...

I don't recall anyone suggesting that we should read Playboy magazine instead of the Bible, so I have no idea what this paragraph has to do with the discussion at hand.

mrmccormo said:
The thread is about one extreme - people who idolize the Bible. The "remedy" offered is listening to God. I am pointing out the opposite extreme to help us frame the conversation.

I don't imply that at all. See the above post.

If I'm reading you correctly, you don't really believe what you posted earlier, but simply posted a counter "extreme" position to the perceived "extreme" position you believe is represented by this thread.

So what do you actually believe concerning the topic? Do you believe that it is possible to idolize the Bible? I believe it is quite possible.

mrmccormo · Aug 26, 2011

probinson said:
Fair enough.

But if indeed the problem is that people are reading the Bible academically and refusing to let God penetrate their heart, how is the remedy to continue simply reading the Bible? Isn't that the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

The remedy is to allow the Holy Spirit to work in your heart. Whether that is through the Scriptures or through His voice is up to the mercy of God, not us. I - for one - would not recommend that anyone stop reading the Bible, even if they were reading it with the "wrong motives". As I said below, reading the Bible is opening the door. There's no real reason to close that door just because someone is reading with the "wrong motives".

probinson said:
Not if they're not listening to the Holy Spirit in the first place.

Now I would say that it is quite possible that someone reading the Bible with wrong intentions and motives might very well be changed and learn something from it, because I believe God is much bigger than our intentions and motives and often does things in spite of us. But that doesn't mean we should just give up and do whatever we like, expecting God to work in spite of bad intentions and motives.

Actually, I do expect God to work in spite of bad intentions and motives. It is how we are saved from sin. Now, am I saying "yeah! Read the Bible with bad motives (whatever that means)! Just go right ahead!" Er...no. Of course, it would be best if someone read the Bible with an open heart. But that's not the topic. The topic is "wrong motives". Even in the midst of wrong motives, God can still do a good work.

probinson said:
Right. So if they're rejecting the Holy Spirit, Who leads and guides us into all Truth, how is more reading of scripture going to cure that issue?

Because the Scripture is God's truth. Whether it is the Holy Spirit knocking on the door of your heart with a gentle voice or with the written text of the Word or with the words of a Christian neighbor, we all have to come to the knowledge of God in some fashion. You seem to be of the opinion that the Holy Spirit can't "lead and guide us into all truth" using the Scriptures, or at least that He can't do it if someone is reading the Word "with the wrong motives".

probinson said:
No one here is claiming that we should stop reading the Bible. Join the club.

I never said that. However - unless I am misunderstanding you - you are claiming that reading the Bible "with wrong motives" diminishes or even eliminates the power of God's Word. This is incorrect.

probinson said:
What is the difference that you believe we should realize between what God speaks to us today and what is contained in scripture?

I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

probinson said:
I truly don't understand the fascination some in this forum seem to have with using Playboy magazine to make their point, but I digress...

I don't recall anyone suggesting that we should read Playboy magazine instead of the Bible, so I have no idea what this paragraph has to do with the discussion at hand.

Then you are dodging the question. I am pointing out that you can read the Bible and you can look at inappropriate content with "wrong motives", yes? However, which book opens a wider door for God to come in and do His work? Just asking a simple question.

probinson said:
If I'm reading you correctly, you don't really believe what you posted earlier, but simply posted a counter "extreme" position to the perceived "extreme" position you believe is represented by this thread.

So what do you actually believe concerning the topic? Do you believe that it is possible to idolize the Bible? I believe it is quite possible.

Yes, it is possible to idolize the Bible. However, I do not believe that reading the Bible "with the wrong motives" completely eliminates the impact of God's Word.

probinson · Aug 26, 2011

mrmccormo said:
The remedy is to allow the Holy Spirit to work in your heart.

Agreed.

mrmccormo said:
Whether that is through the Scriptures or through His voice is up to the mercy of God, not us.

Yep.

mrmccormo said:
I - for one - would not recommend that anyone stop reading the Bible, even if they were reading it with the "wrong motives". As I said below, reading the Bible is opening the door. There's no real reason to close that door just because someone is reading with the "wrong motives".

We'll have to agree to disagree slightly here. While I would generally agree that there is almost always no reason to tell someone to stop reading the Bible, I'm not prepared to say that it's never going to happen.

mrmccormo said:
Actually, I do expect God to work in spite of bad intentions and motives.

As do I, and I am incredibly thankful that God works in spite of us. We'd be in a world of hurt if He didn't.

mrmccormo said:
Now, am I saying "yeah! Read the Bible with bad motives (whatever that means)! Just go right ahead!" Er...no. Of course, it would be best if someone read the Bible with an open heart. But that's not the topic. The topic is "wrong motives". Even in the midst of wrong motives, God can still do a good work.

Even in the midst of someone reading the Bible with a "closed heart", God can still do a good work too. I've never said any different. But what I am saying is that people should be reading scripture to know God. Not to win arguments, not to justify their behavior, etc., but to know God. That is why we should read scripture.

mrmccormo said:
Because the Scripture is God's truth. Whether it is the Holy Spirit knocking on the door of your heart with a gentle voice or with the written text of the Word or with the words of a Christian neighbor, we all have to come to the knowledge of God in some fashion. You seem to be of the opinion that the Holy Spirit can't "lead and guide us into all truth" using the Scriptures, or at least that He can't do it if someone is reading the Word "with the wrong motives".

Where did you come up with that? In my last post I said;

"...Now I would say that it is quite possible that someone reading the Bible with wrong intentions and motives might very well be changed and learn something from it, because I believe God is much bigger than our intentions and motives and often does things in spite of us..."

mrmccormo said:
I never said that. However - unless I am misunderstanding you - you are claiming that reading the Bible "with wrong motives" diminishes or even eliminates the power of God's Word. This is incorrect.

The power of God's Word is unaffected by how we read it. However, it's effectiveness to change us and bring us closer to Him is highly diminished when read with wrong motives or intentions.

mrmccormo said:
I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

Not really.

You said, that we need to "...realize that there is a difference between the Words that were spoken to the Apostles (which became NT Scripture) and that everyday guiding voice people hear from God.". I'm asking you to expound upon what you believe the difference is between God speaking to us today and His Words contained in scripture.

mrmccormo said:
Then you are dodging the question. I am pointing out that you can read the Bible and you can look at inappropriate content with "wrong motives", yes?

Huh? Not to go completely off-topic, but how would one look at inappropriate content with "right motives"? This is a really bizarre analogy, IMO.

mrmccormo said:
However, which book opens a wider door for God to come in and do His work? Just asking a simple question.

According to you, it doesn't really matter the motives, nor the intent for why one reads scripture, and God can do anything in spite of what we're doing. Using that same logic, and quoting you with a slight addition, "Whether that is through the Scriptures or through His voice [while reading Playboy] is up to the mercy of God, not us."

mrmccormo said:
Yes, it is possible to idolize the Bible.

I agree.

mrmccormo said:
However, I do not believe that reading the Bible "with the wrong motives" completely eliminates the impact of God's Word.

It may, or it may not diminish and/or eliminate the impact of reading God's Word if read with wrong motives, or if you prefer, a closed heart.

mrmccormo · Aug 26, 2011

probinson said:
We'll have to agree to disagree slightly here. While I would generally agree that there is almost always no reason to tell someone to stop reading the Bible, I'm not prepared to say that it's never going to happen.

That's fine. We can let this particular point rest.

probinson said:
Even in the midst of someone reading the Bible with a "closed heart", God can still do a good work too. I've never said any different. But what I am saying is that people should be reading scripture to know God. Not to win arguments, not to justify their behavior, etc., but to know God. That is why we should read scripture.

Again, perhaps I am misunderstanding you (which is why I've opened that door in previous posts). Yes, people should be reading the Scripture to know God, not to win arguments, justify behavior (well, unless the behavior is following Christ

), and so forth. All I was pointing out that even in the midst of reading the Bible for "bad" reasons, God can still work through it.

probinson said:
Where did you come up with that? In my last post I said;

"...Now I would say that it is quite possible that someone reading the Bible with wrong intentions and motives might very well be changed and learn something from it, because I believe God is much bigger than our intentions and motives and often does things in spite of us..."

The power of God's Word is unaffected by how we read it. However, it's effectiveness to change us and bring us closer to Him is highly diminished when read with wrong motives or intentions.

Perhaps I simply misunderstood you. And maybe we are coming to the same conclusion but putting it a different way. What I hear you saying is that when we read the Bible with bad motives, it puts a big stumbling block in our path toward God, a stumbling block that wouldn't exist if we read the Bible with "right" motives. Am I hearing you correctly? I agree with what you are saying, if I'm understanding it right. All I'm saying is that - despite the big stumbling block in our path - God can use His Word to reach our hearts despite the most unlikely of circumstances and attitudes.

probinson said:
Not really.

You said, that we need to "...realize that there is a difference between the Words that were spoken to the Apostles (which became NT Scripture) and that everyday guiding voice people hear from God.". I'm asking you to expound upon what you believe the difference is between God speaking to us today and His Words contained in scripture.

Actually, you did clear up the question for me, so thank you. What I meant is that the Holy Spirit - the same One who is in us - spoke to the Apostles. However, there were certain things the Holy Spirit said to those Apostles that are now recorded as Scripture. There were certainly things the Holy Spirit said to the Apostles (and in the same way, things the Holy Spirit says to us in our own lives) that were not "on par" with the things that were recorded in Scripture. That's what I was getting at.

probinson said:
Huh? Not to go completely off-topic, but how would one look at inappropriate content with "right motives"? This is a really bizarre analogy, IMO.

According to you, it doesn't really matter the motives, nor the intent for why one reads scripture, and God can do anything in spite of what we're doing. Using that same logic, and quoting you with a slight addition, "Whether that is through the Scriptures or through His voice [while reading Playboy] is up to the mercy of God, not us."

Yes, God can reach out to us in spite of what we're doing. My point was that (in a hypothetical sense) if you take two people (one is looking at inappropriate content, the other is reading the Bible with "wrong motives") I think that in the situation God has a better window of opportunity. In other words, a person who reads the Bible - even if it is with bad motives - is on a better path than someone who is not reading the Bible, because there's that window of opportunity. Might that Bible-reader miss everything and never come to know God? Unfortunately, that is a real possibility. I'm not discounting that. I'm just holding out hope that God would speak to such a person through His Word.

K2K · Aug 26, 2011

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks,

Is 1:3 An ox knows its owner, and a donkey its master's manger, but Israel does not know, My people do not understand.

Have we taken a verse about hearing and made it into a verse about reading?

Is 1:10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sdom; Give ear to the instruction of our God.

Does this verse mean that it is possible to get instruction from the Lord God that you can hear, or does the word 'hear' mean 'read'? Do you actually think the verse should be: Read the word of the Lord, you rulers...

Is 28:23 Give ear and hear my voice, Listen and hear my words

Does this verse mean read and study your Bible?

Is 28:14 Therefore, hear the word of the Lord, O scoffers

I hear from One, that I call Lord, I hear words that He speaks like a small voice in my head. I have conversations with Him. I call Him Lord, because I believe He is the Lord. The first words He told me was 'read your Bible'.

I lost a job because I was telling people that it was possible to hear from the Lord. He told me to pray for people there, and miracles occured. One lady was heal from carpal tunnel. Another who had not had her period for 8 months and was seeing a doctor, was healed after I told her to pray to Jesus instead of praying to her dead mom. Another had a child who suffered from nightmares, and that stopped when I prayed for the child. I believe over 30 people in all wear effected by my Lord before I was fired as a retail manager.

My Lord, (the One I hear from) took my spirit out of my body (just a few inches, yet out) and I heard Him ask, "Karl, do you think I can take you anywhere I want?", on the day that I got hired for a new job. There He gave me parables to speak to them, so I wouldn't get fired there. Yet even there I saw Him do wonderous things. I cold disappeared over lunch when I prayed for someone who asked me to pray for her on my lunch. A Jewish lady who had kneee surgery several times and was going in again let me pray in the name of Jesus for her, because I told her that He (My Lord Jesus Christ) had said He would help her. That time the same knee surgery that had fail before, went fine that time. I all, I believe He effected the live of over 20 people there.

Then one day He told me to quit. And He caused a snow storm to happen on me, as a sign, in a place (So Calf) where I had lived ten years and never seen it snow. He had me open a Christian bookstore on the money I had put aside for retirement. And I saw Him (My Lord I hear talk to me) do wonderful things at that store. It would take too long to even try to mention them here, but something wonderful seemed to happen everyday.

So I have come to believe that the One I hear from is the Lord Jesus Christ as mentioned in the Scriptures. When I read the word 'hear' in the Bible, I believe it means 'hear', not read.

Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," and, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive

So I ask given written above; If somone thinks the word of God is only a series of lines orderly layed out in a book, is it because they would not listen to the voice of the Lord?

If so, will they not go stumbling backward, be broken, snared and taken captive by the enemy, because they did not listen to the voice of the Lord?

murjahel · Aug 26, 2011

The Bible are the words of God,
inspired into prophets to write them...

so any verse that tells us to hear
the Word of God means
the written word, and the spoken word...

to speak of the
Bible as 'not the Word of God'
is not a pleasant thing for God to hear...

The Bible an Idol

God is the Truth, not an opinion.

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