Eschatological Realism

MetanoiaHeart said:

Hello

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Are you saying saints can lie or not?

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I don't push my opinions on anyone MetanoiaHeart. I don't think you need my opinion anyway. I will point to scripture though ...
Do saints follow the commandments?

MetanoiaHeart said:

Is this an interpretation you've heard before, and if so can you point me somewhere where I might read more about it?

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Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21

I recommend Deuteronomy. It's tough reading for those of us raised in modern times, but contains the law, struggles of Moses and the Israelites, casting out "evil", and the "Song of Moses".

MetanoiaHeart said:

Do you think that the parable speaks against what the Pope said? (Because that is the whole reason why the parable was brought into the thread in the first place, and I still don't see legitimate connection.)

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LOL ...

I don't have an opinion on that, MetanoiaHeart. Seriously, I don't. Men say many things ... even well-intentioned words are often ill formed, or in questionable context ... just a human failing ... maybe a failing in language ...

Hope this helps a little ...


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NightHawkeye said:

I don't push my opinions on anyone MetanoiaHeart. I don't think you need my opinion anyway. I will point to scripture though ...

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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Do saints follow the commandments?

... Thou shalt not lie.
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Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21

I recommend Deuteronomy. It's tough reading for those of us raised in modern times, but contains the law, struggles of Moses and the Israelites, casting out "evil", and the "Song of Moses".


LOL ...

I don't have an opinion on that, MetanoiaHeart. Seriously, I don't. Men say many things ... even well-intentioned words are often ill formed, or in questionable context ... just a human failing ... maybe a failing in language ...

Hope this helps a little ...


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Okay, thanks. I hear what you're saying.

MetanoiaHeart said:

I don't think the oil is truth because it doesn't make sense for the reasons you just listed. It's not an interpretation that I've heard anywhere else, and I spent a good amount of time yesterday reading various interpretations. (Which has been really interesting, as this is one of my favorite parables. )

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Okay, that is fair enough so as I began to write the question...so, what do you consider the oil to be, I thought....Whirlwind...look it up. This is what I found:

There is the answer. There are two oils, both of pure olive oil, one for light and the other for anointing. The wise virgins are God's anointed...the foolish virgins that don't have oil so their lamps burn always...are not. Therefore the anointing oil can not be shared.

And I also don't think the pope's words have anything to do with the parable because the problem was never that the virgins went out to meet the bridegroom - the problem was that the foolish virgins ran out of oil and had to leave to get more.

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The problem is two-fold. They didn't have oil and they listened to the midnight cry of the bridegroom coming when there will be no cry made. That is deception. Those that go out will spiritually die....

For your interpretation to work, going to get more oil has to equal going out to meet the bridegroom at midnight, and they are two different things. Yes, the virgins need the oil in order to meet the bridegroom, but "going to buy oil" is "going to buy oil", and it is not "meeting the bridegroom". They are not one and the same.

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They are going to buy oil so they can meet a bridegroom coming at midnight.
Those that do, and many shall as they aren't taught that the fake comes first....will be spiritually slain.

1whirlwind said:

Okay, that is fair enough so as I began to write the question...so, what do you consider the oil to be, I thought....Whirlwind...look it up. This is what I found:

Exodus 25:6 Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense,

Oil for light (to show the way), and anointing oil.

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Exodus 27:20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

Here we see the parallel with the virgins/oil/lamp. The wise have their lamps burning. The foolish were without oil that they were commanded to bring...always.


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Exodus 30:22-24 Moreover the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels, And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
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30:25-26 And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil. And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,
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30:30-33 And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto Me throughout your generations. Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you. Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people.
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There is the answer. There are two oils, both of pure olive oil, one for light and the other for anointing. The wise virgins are God's anointed...the foolish virgins that don't have oil so their lamps burn always...are not. Therefore the anointing oil can not be shared.







The problem is two-fold. They didn't have oil and they listened to the midnight cry of the bridegroom coming when there will be no cry made. That is deception. Those that go out will spiritually die....

Exodus 11:4-5 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
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They are going to buy oil so they can meet a bridegroom coming at midnight.

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.



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Those that do, and many shall as they aren't taught that the fake comes first....will be spiritually slain.

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That's a really interesting interpretation, but I still don't quite agree with it. Not that I disagree with everything you're saying; you've definitely given me a lot to think about, and studying this parable has been very worthwhile. Thanks for the conversation.

MetanoiaHeart said:

That's a really interesting interpretation, but I still don't quite agree with it. Not that I disagree with everything you're saying; you've definitely given me a lot to think about, and studying this parable has been very worthwhile. Thanks for the conversation.

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You are most welcome....I too have enjoyed it.



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