WarriorAngel

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;) Tigg. But that's not all.


Dhimmi - Jews and Christians Under Islam

In 622 CE when Muhammad began his systematic conquering of pagan Arab populations and territories in the Arab desserts and peninsulas, he set up a precedent of conversion, death or servitude. Mixing war and religion, he utilized and abrogated relationships with non-Muslims to gain political and eventual territorial gains. A shrewd politician, Muhammad took advantage of non-belligerency pacts to attack and subjugate populations. In 628, after a long siege of Khaybar, lasting a month and a half, the inhabitants surrendered under terms of a treaty known as the dhimma. According to this agreement Muhammad allowed the Jews living there to continue to cultivate the land on the condition that they cede to him half of their produce, but he reserved the right to cancel the agreement and expel them whenever he desired. This became the prototype of all future subjugations. Hence making agreements and then breaking them to gain political gains became a hallmark of Muslim armies.


As the Muslims grew more powerful, their holy wars spread out beyond Arabia. The jihad became a war of conquest subject to a code which was the elimination of infidels. Truces were allowed, but never a lasting peace.
The jihad became a concept that divided the world into two separate groups. One was the dar al harab, the territory of war, and the other was the dar al Islam, the territory of Islam, which was the Muslim land where Islamic law reigns. Jihad is a normal state of being in the dar al harab which will only end with the conversion of the entire world to Islam.
 
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Lady Bug

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WA may be appearing to misjudge some Muslims (I don't know) but as far as her assertions that Islam and Christianity are not compatible, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I agree with Tigg that they do not worship the same God, but this is where I have a problem agreeing with the Church on this. Is this something we're obligated to agree with the Church on?
 
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ivebeenshown

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So anyway - Christianity and Islam are incompatible. Call me mean, call me phobic, call me whatever - but Islam is heresy or the CC is wrong for believing Christ is God.

SO which is it?
Islam is Heresy but I still stand by what the CCC says about Muslims. :hug:

I agree with Tigg that they do not worship the same God, but this is where I have a problem agreeing with the Church on this. Is this something we're obligated to agree with the Church on?
If you believe Fred has eleven fingers and I believe he has ten, only one of us has the correct information, but that doesn't mean we are each thinking of a different Fred!

That being said, no man comes to the Father but by Jesus. That is, there is no salvation outside of Christ.
 
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WarriorAngel

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WA may be appearing to misjudge some Muslims (I don't know) but as far as her assertions that Islam and Christianity are not compatible, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I agree with Tigg that they do not worship the same God, but this is where I have a problem agreeing with the Church on this. Is this something we're obligated to agree with the Church on?
No. It is not a dogmatic or doctrinal teaching. Its an ecumenical statement.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Many ways lead to Gud - and those who find it are blessed!!

Muslims, Hindu, Biddust, otherss know God!

I would think after the many years in CF you would not be teaching and proselytizing.

This is Oneness or Unitarian.
 
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isshinwhat

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I agree with Tigg that they do not worship the same God, but this is where I have a problem agreeing with the Church on this. Is this something we're obligated to agree with the Church on?

The only way I can reconcile it is this: Islam is basically a syncretic Christian heresy, and like the various Protestant heresies, the people responsible for creation of those heresies will have to answer to God for leading men astray. Those who have fallen victim to their false teachings; however, are not necessarily culpable for separation from the Church, outside of which there is no salvation. Obviously the degree to which Islam differs from Catholicism is higher than with most Protestants, and its particular errors leave its followers more prone to specific acts, yet in each case the adherent believes he is following the One God of Abraham. If he follows the path of Jihad is he worshipping the God of Abraham? If he murders his daughter who has been raped because she is now unclean does he follow the God of Abraham? In those cases, I am not nearly so sure. May God forgive us all and have mercy.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Islam is Heresy but I still stand by what the CCC says about Muslims. :hug:

If you believe Fred has eleven fingers and I believe he has ten, only one of us has the correct information, but that doesn't mean we are each thinking of a different Fred!

That being said, no man comes to the Father but by Jesus. That is, there is no salvation outside of Christ.

And we understand the catechism goes on to say:


843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
 
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Tigg

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I believe in One God. Ahhhh best said as follows and take note there is no Allah

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


God bless
 
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S.ilvio

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Carry on the good fight WA. Those who can not see, won't - but you live up to your name. :) God bless.

If WA carries on with racist, posts that are inciting hatred she should be bannedfrom the forum. Is that what you want..?
 
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S.ilvio

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I believe in One God. Ahhhh best said as follows and take note there is no Allah

This quote says so much to the gross ignorance of some American conservatives. Is it that your schools don't educate you or that you simply refuse to hear truth..?
 
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Tigg

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If WA carries on with racist, posts that are inciting hatred she should be bannedfrom the forum. Is that what you want..?

Don't be silly. WA is entitled to her opinion the same as you or I. If ya don't like it don't read it or ignore. You may shut someone out by not replying. Banning - pfttttt.

You czll me ignorant. Conservative, who cares. But should you be banned for calling me ignorant? Nah. I chose to ignore you. Much more effective. ROFLing Take care
 
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