do you know that the initial evidence is?
- Thread starter eileen n mccarthy
- Start date
That is certainly true according to Pentacostalism (and glossolia, or speaking in tongues, is for Pentacostalism the first external evidence of the inner one). But for the Anabaptist/Mennonite, the evidence is manifest in the deeds (or fruit) of a person's life.
Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. The one who says I have come to know God and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person. But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him. The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked.
--1 John 2:3-6 NET
Upvote
0
Livingstones2011
Born-Again Christian
When I look at it, Matthew 3 says "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire." I think baptism of the Holy Ghost is when where we are converted that the Holy Ghost shall cover us; but I am not sure. When I was listen to a sermon from my Church, they said that there are 7 baptisms listed in the Bible.
1 is the baptism of water. We see that from the examples of Jesus and his disciples, even from John the Baptist. And that water came be transcribed as physical or the water of life.
2. We also see evidence of the baptism of fire.
3. It is also mentioned about what you said, the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
4. In Romans 6:4, it says that we are buried with him by Him into death.
5. Also note that Acts 19:4 says that we are baptized unto repentance.
6. In 2 Peter says that we are baptized into His resurrection.
I am not sure what the 7th is. But after Monday, I will take notes from the sermon and will respond to your question again. ^^
1 is the baptism of water. We see that from the examples of Jesus and his disciples, even from John the Baptist. And that water came be transcribed as physical or the water of life.
2. We also see evidence of the baptism of fire.
3. It is also mentioned about what you said, the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
4. In Romans 6:4, it says that we are buried with him by Him into death.
5. Also note that Acts 19:4 says that we are baptized unto repentance.
6. In 2 Peter says that we are baptized into His resurrection.
I am not sure what the 7th is. But after Monday, I will take notes from the sermon and will respond to your question again. ^^
Upvote
0
I'd like to make an observation about baptism with fire. Let's look at the text first:
Matt 3
[5] Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
[6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Two catagories came:
1. Those who believed and were baptized, and
2. Those who did not believe and were warned about the wrath to come.
Matt. 3
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
[10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
He made a clear distinction, that their lineage alone was not sufficient to cleanse them from their sin, it had to be a heartfealt repentance that resulted in good fruit. All else would be chopped down and cast into the fire.
Matt. 3
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Three baptisms here:
1. John's baptism which was an outward sign of an inward decision, (not much different than our current N.T. church baptism.
2. Jesus' baptism with the Holy Ghost, which can be understood in the context of the following:
1 Corinthians 12
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
When we believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ, the Spirit of God baptizes us into his body, the church or the bride, whichever you like better...same thing.
The third baptism of Matt. 3
Matt. 3
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Now we see that the baptism with fire is the wrath of God upon all who die in unbelief.
John 3
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John the Baptist was warning them. Basically he was saying this, those you see here being baptized will prove by their good works, that they have believed upon the coming Messiah, you however, are going to have your OWN baptism, and you are not going to like it!
Matt 3
[5] Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
[6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Two catagories came:
1. Those who believed and were baptized, and
2. Those who did not believe and were warned about the wrath to come.
Matt. 3
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
[10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
He made a clear distinction, that their lineage alone was not sufficient to cleanse them from their sin, it had to be a heartfealt repentance that resulted in good fruit. All else would be chopped down and cast into the fire.
Matt. 3
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Three baptisms here:
1. John's baptism which was an outward sign of an inward decision, (not much different than our current N.T. church baptism.
2. Jesus' baptism with the Holy Ghost, which can be understood in the context of the following:
1 Corinthians 12
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
When we believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ, the Spirit of God baptizes us into his body, the church or the bride, whichever you like better...same thing.
The third baptism of Matt. 3
Matt. 3
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Now we see that the baptism with fire is the wrath of God upon all who die in unbelief.
John 3
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John the Baptist was warning them. Basically he was saying this, those you see here being baptized will prove by their good works, that they have believed upon the coming Messiah, you however, are going to have your OWN baptism, and you are not going to like it!
Upvote
0
- Mar 28, 2005
- 21,813
- 10,794
- 76
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Charismatic
- Marital Status
- Married
I believe that the initial evidence that a person has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is faith.
The Scripture says that the just shall live by faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God, and whatever is not of faith is sin. Faith is simply believing what God says in His Word and acting on it.
Therefore, if a person believes that the Holy Spirit comes into his spirit to dwell there at conversion, then his faith is the evidence that the Holy Spirit really is there. Hebrews tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Therefore faith is the evidence that we are filled with the Holy Spirit and therefore endowed with power for service.
Some people don't have the faith to believe that the Holy Spirit comes in at conversion, so they take a Scriptural step by asking the Lord to fill him with the Spirit, and then because the person who asks, receives, he receives it by faith, and then is able to confess that "I am now filled with the Holy Spirit." The asking and receiving brings him or her into a stronger faith to believe that he or she has received the Holy Spirit.
Then they have the faith to go out and witness for Christ, knowing that the power of the Holy Spirit within them will enable them to speak the Word with boldness and to see the Holy Spirit lift the veil of blindness off unconverted people so they can come to Christ and accept Him as their Saviour.
According the Scripture (as contrasted with the Pentecostal belief), the Holy Spirit's power is for preaching the Gospel to sinners effectively, and not for our self indulgence.
The Scripture says that the just shall live by faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God, and whatever is not of faith is sin. Faith is simply believing what God says in His Word and acting on it.
Therefore, if a person believes that the Holy Spirit comes into his spirit to dwell there at conversion, then his faith is the evidence that the Holy Spirit really is there. Hebrews tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Therefore faith is the evidence that we are filled with the Holy Spirit and therefore endowed with power for service.
Some people don't have the faith to believe that the Holy Spirit comes in at conversion, so they take a Scriptural step by asking the Lord to fill him with the Spirit, and then because the person who asks, receives, he receives it by faith, and then is able to confess that "I am now filled with the Holy Spirit." The asking and receiving brings him or her into a stronger faith to believe that he or she has received the Holy Spirit.
Then they have the faith to go out and witness for Christ, knowing that the power of the Holy Spirit within them will enable them to speak the Word with boldness and to see the Holy Spirit lift the veil of blindness off unconverted people so they can come to Christ and accept Him as their Saviour.
According the Scripture (as contrasted with the Pentecostal belief), the Holy Spirit's power is for preaching the Gospel to sinners effectively, and not for our self indulgence.
Upvote
0
Hello Oscarr greetings,
I agree with your post except for the last part of your post.
"and not for our self indulgence."
Here is my points: John 7:17 If any one desire to practise his will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is of God, or [that] I speak from myself.
v.18 He that speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that has sent him, he is true, and unrighteousness is not in him.
John17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world; [Because Jesus has ordained or sent us we should also seek the glory of Jesus and thy Father as suggested in John 7:18. (emphasis mine)
This were manifested later in 1 Corintians 14:2,& 4 For he that speaks with a tongue does not speak to men but to God: for no one hears; but in spirit he speaks mysteries.
v.4 He that speaks with a tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesies edifies [the] assembly.
This pertain not to common glosollalia which was being practiced today but
with a hidden or secret owrds that the Holy Ghost shall teaches to a believer.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in [the] body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows such [a one] caught up to [the] third heaven.
v.3 And I know such a man, (whether in [the] body or out of the body I know not, God knows
v.4 that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable things said which it is not allowed to man to utter.
And if these things were revealed to us this refer to what John 1:14 and 1 John 1:1-2 we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 John1:-2 That which was from [the] beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life;
v.2 (and the life has been manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us.
Thank you and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio
I agree with your post except for the last part of your post.
"and not for our self indulgence."
Here is my points: John 7:17 If any one desire to practise his will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is of God, or [that] I speak from myself.
v.18 He that speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that has sent him, he is true, and unrighteousness is not in him.
John17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world; [Because Jesus has ordained or sent us we should also seek the glory of Jesus and thy Father as suggested in John 7:18. (emphasis mine)
This were manifested later in 1 Corintians 14:2,& 4 For he that speaks with a tongue does not speak to men but to God: for no one hears; but in spirit he speaks mysteries.
v.4 He that speaks with a tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesies edifies [the] assembly.
This pertain not to common glosollalia which was being practiced today but
with a hidden or secret owrds that the Holy Ghost shall teaches to a believer.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in [the] body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows such [a one] caught up to [the] third heaven.
v.3 And I know such a man, (whether in [the] body or out of the body I know not, God knows
v.4 that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable things said which it is not allowed to man to utter.
And if these things were revealed to us this refer to what John 1:14 and 1 John 1:1-2 we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 John1:-2 That which was from [the] beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life;
v.2 (and the life has been manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us.
Thank you and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio
Upvote
0
Similar threads
