Wines Of The Bible

Revelation 14:6-12

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JESUS CHRIST asks us to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39;p) and Scripture says to prove all things:

Quench not the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19

Despise not prophesyings. 1 Thessalonians 5:20

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 Corinthians 14:32

So, since “the scriptures cannot be broken” (John 10:35;p), is given by “inspiration of GOD” (2 Timothy 3:16;p), and we are be like the noble Bereans, “more noble than those in Thessalonica” (Acts 17:11;p) and are to go “line upon line, line upon line” (Isaiah 28:10;p), “rightly dividing the WORD of TRUTH” (2 Timothy 2:15;p) and “no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20;p), being guided by the HOLY SPIRIT, for as GOD says, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD...” (Isaiah 1:18;p).

So when we hear the word of truth (John 17:17) being preached, our hearts will be pricked (Psalms 73:1; Acts 2:37), and the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8).

We cannot neglect, in this study upon "wines" in the scripture without also speaking upon the very subject of health in the scripture and how it also relates to our connection with God in His worship and in our daily lives with each other and our spirituality.

Can food affect those things? If so food, then what also of drink?

So, the Beginning texts upon this to always keep in mind throughout are:

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Corinthians 10:31

And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; Leviticus 10:10

Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God. Leviticus 20:7

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1 Peter 1:15

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly. John 10:10

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. 3 John 1:2

Let us also ask, at the outset, "Is there a dual use for the word "wine" in common langauge and is there such a use in the scriptures?" Let us look.

Word Definition:

"Wine – noun

... the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc.: gooseberry wine; currant wine" [Wine, definition] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wine

"Wine - noun

... something that invigorates or intoxicates ..." [Wine, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wine

What does the word "intoxicate" mean?

Word Definition:

"Intoxicate - transitive verb

1 poison

2 a : to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to the point of enthusiasm or frenzy" [Intoxicate, definition] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intoxicate

Let us also ask a very basic question pertaining to these, "Can a person who is “intoxicated” [“poisons”] by “wine” which is “alcoholic” bring “glory to God” in their drinking?"

What does the alcohol do to a persons health?

It impairs brain activity, slows down reactionary time, attacks kidneys, liver, bloodstream, causing cancer, disease, dizziness, loose morality, causing one to forget, relaxes and/or reduces self-control, etc and is one of the major leading causes of death, abuse and misery in the world. Even the smallest amount begins to break down the immune system of the human body [multiple medical research reports can be cited for these facts if needed].

We should seriously ask ourself, "Does the alcohol bring life or death?"

Alcohol is merely a legalized [group morality] "drug". For those who advocate that a little or moderate use is ok, should also perhaps consider the "health benefits" and results of other such "drugs": nicotine, cannabis, cocaine, etc.
 

Revelation 14:6-12

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Let us look at the words used in scipture for "wine" and other such items:

The English word “wine” is found 231 times in 212 verses in the King James Version:

Genesis 9:21,24, 14:18, 19:32,33,34,35, 27:25,28,37, 49:11,12;

Exodus 29:40;

Leviticus 10:9, 23:13;

Numbers 6:3,20, 15:5,7,10, 18:12, 28:7,14;

Deuteronomy 7:13, 11:14, 12:17, 14:23,26, 16:13, 18:4, 28:39,51, 29:6, 32:33,38, 33:28;

Joshua 9:4,13;

Judges 9:13, 13:4,7,14, 19:19;

1 Samuel 1:14,15,24, 10:3, 16:20, 25:18,37;

2 Samuel 6:19, 13:28, 16:1,2;

2 Kings 18:32;

1 Chronicles 9:29, 12:40, 16:3, 27:27;

2 Chronicles 2:10,15, 11:11, 31:5, 32:28;

Ezra 6:9, 7:22;

Nehemiah 2:1, 5:11,15,18, 10:37,39, 13:5,12,15;

Esther 1:7,10, 5:6, 7:2,7,8;

Job 1:13,18, 32:19;

Psalms 4:7, 60:3, 75:8, 78:65, 104:15;

Proverbs 3:10, 4:17, 9:2,5, 20:1, 21:17, 23:30,31, 31:4,6;

Ecclesiastes 2:3, 9:7, 10:19;

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 1:2,4, 4:10, 5:1, 7:9, 8:2;

Isaiah 1:22, 5:11,12,22, 16:10, 22:13, 24:7,9,11, 27:2, 28:1,7, 29:9, 36:17, 49:26, 51:21, 55:1, 56:12, 62:8, 65:8;

Jeremiah 13:12, 23:9, 25:15, 31:12, 35:2,5,6,8,14, 40:10,12, 48:33, 51:7;

Lamentations 2:12;

Ezekiel 27:18, 44:21;

Daniel 1:5,8,16, 5:1,2,4,23, 10:3;

Hosea 2:8,9,22, 3:1, 4:11, 7:5,14, 9:2,4, 14:7;

Joel 1:5,10, 2:19,24, 3:3,18;

Amos 2:8,12, 5:11, 6:6, 9:13,14;

Micah 2:11, 6:15;

Habakkuk 2:5;

Zephaniah 1:13;

Haggai 1:11, 2:12;

Zechariah 9:15,17, 10:7;

Matthew 9:17;

Mark 2:22, 15:23;

Luke 1:15, 5:37,38,39, 7:33, 10:34;

John 2:3,9,10, 4:46;

Acts 2:13;

Romans 14:21;

Ephesians 5:18;

1 Timothy 3:3,8, 5:23;

Titus 1:7, 2:3;

1 Peter 4:3;

Revelation 6:6, 14:8,10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3,13.

Now let us also look at the more specific uses of certain words and also of others found in the scripture and afterward we can begin to study these out in more detail.
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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Wine [ Strong's H3196 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: yayin; Hebrew: יַיִן - the common word translated into the English: "wine". "From an unused root meaning to effervesce” 138 times “wine”, 1 times “banqueting”, 1 times “winebibbers” [ + 05433 ]

Genesis 9:21,24, 14:18, 19:32,33,34,35, 27:25, 49:11,12;

Exodus 29:40;

Leviticus 10:9, 23:13;

Numbers 6:3,4,20, 15:5,7,10, 28:14;

Deuteronomy 14:26, 28:39, 29:6, 32:33,38;

Joshua 9:4,13;

Judges 13:4,7,14, 19:19;

1 Samuel 1:14,15,24, 10:3, 16:20, 25:18,37;

2 Samuel 13:28, 16:1,2;

1 Chronicles 9:29, 12:40, 27:27;

2 Chronicles 2:10,15, 11:11;

Nehemiah 2:1, 5:15,18, 13:15;

Esther 1:7,10, 5:6, 7:2,7,8;

Job 1:13,18, 32:19;

Psalms 60:3, 75:8, 78:65, 104:15;

Proverbs 4:17, 9:2,5, 20:1, 21:17, 23:20,30,31, 31:4,6;

Ecclesiastes 2:3, 9:7, 10:19;

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 1:2,4, 2:4, 4:10, 5:1, 7:9, 8:2;

Isaiah 5:11,12,22, 16:10, 22:13, 24:9,11, 28:1,7, 29:9, 51:21, 55:1, 56:12;

Jeremiah 13:12, 23:9, 25:15, 35:2,5,6,8,14, 40:10,12, 48:33, 51:7;

Lamentations 2:12;

Ezekiel 27:18, 44:21;

Daniel 1:5,8,16, 10:3;

Hosea 4:11, 7:5, 9:4, 14:7;

Joel 1:5, 3:3;

Amos 2:8,12, 5:11, 6:6, 9:14;

Micah 2:11, 6:15;

Habakkuk 2:5;

Zephaniah 1:13;

Haggai 2:12;

Zechariah 9:15, 10:7.



Wine [ Strong's H8492 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: tiyrowsh; Hebrew: תִּירוֹשׁ - commonly translated into the English: “wine” [ or New Wine ]. “From H3423 [ yarash יָרַשׁ to seize, dispossess, take possession of, inherit, disinherit, occupy, impoverish, an heir ] in the sense of expulsion” 38 times “wine”. “Wine, fresh or new wine, must, freshly pressed wine”

Genesis 27:28,37;

Numbers 18:12;

Deuteronomy 7:13, 11:14, 12:17, 14:23, 18:4, 28:51, 33:28;

Judges 9:13;

2 Kings 18:32;

2 Chronicles 31:5, 32:28;

Nehemiah 5:11, 10:37,39, 13:5,12;

Psalms 4:7;

Proverbs 3:10;

Isaiah 24:7, 36:17, 62:8, 65:8;

Jeremiah 31:12;

Hosea 2:8,9,22, 4:11, 7:14, 9:2;

Joel 1:10, 2:19,24;

Micah 6:15;

Haggai 1:11;

Zechariah 9:17.



Strong Wine, Strong Drink [ Strong's H7941 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: shekar; Hebrew: שֵׁכָר - commonly translated into the English: "strong drink". “From H7937 [ shakar שָׁכַר to be, or to become drunken, be intoxicated]” 21 times “strong drink”, 1 times “strong wine”, 1 times “drunkard” [could be made from fruit of the vine, grapes, dates, honey, etc.]

Leviticus 10:9;

Numbers 6:3, 28:7;

Deuteronomy 14:26, 29:6;

Judges 13:4,7,14;

1 Samuel 1:15;

Psalms 69:12;

Proverbs 20:1, 31:4,6;

Isaiah 5:11,22, 24:9, 28:7, 29:9, 56:12;

Micah 2:11.



Wine, Winepresses, Press, Fats, Pressfat [ Strong's H3342 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: yeqeb; Hebrew: יֶקֶב - commonly translated into the English: “winepresses”. “From an unused root meaning to excavate” [winevat dug into the earth] 10 times “winepresses”, 2 times “press”, 2 times “fats”, 1 times “pressfat”, 1 times “wine”

Numbers 18:27,30;

Deuteronomy 15:14, 16:13;

Judges 7:25;

2 Kings 6:27;

Job 24:11;

Proverbs 3:10;

Isaiah 5:2, 16:10;

Jeremiah 48:33;

Hosea 9:2;

Joel 2:24, 3:13;

Haggai 2:16;

Zechariah 14:10.



Lees, Dregs [ Strong's H8105 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: shemer; Hebrew: שֶׁמֶר - commonly translated into the English: “Lees”. “From H8104 [ shamar שָׁמַר to keep, guard, observe, give heed]” 4 times “lees”, 1 times “dregs”

Psalms 78:5;

Isaiah 25:6;

Jeremiah 48:11;

Zephaniah 1:12.



Grape, Wine [ Strong's H6025 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: `enab; Hebrew: עֵנָב - commonly translated into the English: “grape”. “From an unused root probably meaning to bear fruit” 18 times “grape”, 1 times “wine”

Genesis 40:10,11, 49:11;

Leviticus 25:5;

Numbers 6:3, 13:20,23;

Deuteronomy 23:24, 32:14,32;

Nehemiah 13:15;

Isaiah 5:2,4;

Jeremiah 8:3;

Hosea 3:1, 9:10;

Amos 9:13.
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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Wine [ Strong's H2562 ]: Aramaic Transliterated: chamar (Aramaic); Aramaic: חֲמַר - commonly translated into the English: “wine”. “Corresponding to H2561 [ chemer חֶמֶר wine, from H2560 chamar to boil, foam, foam up, ferment]” 6 times “wine”

Ezra 6:9, 7:22;

Daniel 5:1,2,4,23.



Wine [ Strong's H2561 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: chemer; Hebrew: חֶמֶר - commonly translated into the English: “wine”. “From H2560 [ chamar חָמַר to boil, foam, foam up, ferment ]” 1 times “pure”, 1 times “wine”

Deuteronomy 32:14;

Isaiah 27:2.



Sweet Wine, New Wine, Juice [ Strong's H6071 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: `aciyc; Hebrew: עָסִיס - commonly translated into the English: “sweet wine, new wine, juice”. “From H6072 [ `acac עָסַס to press, crush, press by treading, tread down or out” 2 times “new wine”, 2 times “sweet wine”, 1 times “juice”

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 8:2;

Isaiah 49:26;

Joel 1:5, 3:18;

Amos 9:13.



Liquor [ Strong's H4952 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: mishrah; Hebrew: מִשְׁרָה - commonly translated into the English: “liquor” [juice]. “From H8281 [ sharah שָׁרָה to let loose, set free ] in the sense of loosening” 1 times “liquor” [juice of steeped grapes]

Numbers 6:3.


Liquor [ Strong's H4197 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: mezeg; Hebrew: מֶזֶג - commonly translated into the English: “liquor” [mixture, mixed wine]. “From an unused root meaning to mingle (water with wine)” 1 times “liquor”

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 7:2.


Mixed Wine, Drink Offering [ Strong's H4469 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: mamcak; Hebrew: מִמְסָךְ - commonly translated into the English: “mixed wine, drink offering”. “From H4537 [ macak מָסַךְ to mix, mingle, produce by mixing]” 1 times “mixed wine”, 1 times “drink offering”

Proverbs 23:30;

Isaiah 65:11.



Flagon [of wine] [ Strong's H809 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: 'ashiyshah; Hebrew: אֲשִׁישָׁה - commonly translated into the English: “flagon [of wine]” [ actually “dried/moist [raisin] grape cakes, pressed into a form” ]. “From H808 [ 'ashiysh אֲשִׁישׁ with the sense of pressing down, foundation ]” 4 times “flagon”

2 Samuel 6:19;

1 Chronicles 16:3;

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 2:5;

Hosea 3:1.



Wine, Drink, Drunken [ Strong's H5435 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: cobe'; Hebrew: סֹבֶא - commonly translated into the English: “wine, drink, drunken”. “From H5433 [ caba' סָבָא to drink heavily or largely, imbibe]” 1 times “wine”, 1 times “drink”, 1 times “drunken”

Isaiah 1:22;

Hosea 4:18;

Nahum 1:10.



Drunkard, Winebibbers, Fill, Drunken, [variant] [ Strong's H5433 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: caba'; Hebrew: סָבָא - commonly translated into the English: “drunkard, winebibbers, fill, drunken, [variant]”. “A primitive root” 2 times “drunkard”, 1 times “winebibbers”, 1 times “fill”, 1 times “drunken”, 1 times [variant]

Deuteronomy 21:20;

Proverbs 23:30,31;

Isaiah 56:12;

Ezekiel 23:42;

Nahum 1:10.



Spiced [ Strong's H7544 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: reqach; Hebrew: רֶקַח - commonly translated into the English: “spiced”. “From H7543 [ raqach רָקַח to mix, compound ]” 1 times “spiced” wine

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 8:2.


Vinegar [ Strong's H2558 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: chomets; Hebrew: חֹמֶץ- commonly translated into the English: “vinegar”. “From H2556 [ chamets חָמֵץto be leavened, sour ]” 6 times “vinegar”

Numbers 6:3;

Ruth 2:14;

Psalms 69:21;

Proverbs 10:26, 25:20.
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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Gall, Venom, Poison, Hemlock [ Strong's H7219 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: ro'sh; Hebrew: רֹאשׁ - commonly translated into the English: “Gall, Venom, Poison, Hemlock” 9 times “gall”, 1 times “venom”, 1 times “poison”, 1 times “hemlock”

Deuteronomy 29:18, 32:32,33;

Job 20:16;

Psalms 69:21;

Jeremiah 8:14, 9:15, 23:15;

Lamentations 3:5,19;

Hosea 10:4;

Amos 6:12.



Mingle [ Strong's H4537 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: macak; Hebrew: מָסַךְ- commonly translated into the English: “mingle”. “A Primitive root” 5 times “mingle”

Psalms 102:9;

Proverbs 9:2,5;

Isaiah 5:22, 19:14.



Mixture [ Strong's H4538 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: mecek; Hebrew: מֶסֶךְ - commonly translated into the English: “mixture”. “From H4537 [ macak מָסַךְto mix, mingle, produce by mixing ]” 1 times “mixture”

Psalms 75:8.


Drink Offering, Libation, Molten Image, Something Poured Out [ Strong's H5262 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: necek; Hebrew: נֶסֶךְ - commonly translated into the English: “offering”. “From H5258 [ nacak נָסַךְto pour out, pour, offer, cast ]” 59 times “offering”, 4 times “image”, 1 times “cover withal”

Genesis 35:14;

Exodus 29:40,41, 30:9;

Leviticus 23:13,18,37;

Numbers 4:7, 6:15,17, 15:5,7,10,24, 28:7,8,9,10,14,15,24,31, 29:6,11,16,18,19,21,22,24,25,27,28,30,31,33,34,37,38,39;

2 Kings 16:13,15;

1 Chronicles 29:21;

2 Chronicles 29:35;

Psalms 16:4;

Isaiah 41:29, 48:5, 57:6;

Jeremiah 7:18, 10:14, 19:13, 32:29, 44:17,18,19,25, 51:17;

Ezekiel 20:28, 45:17;

Joel 1:9,13, 2:14.



Mixed [ Strong's H4107 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: mahal; Hebrew: מָהַל - commonly translated into the English: “mixed”. Meaning to “circumcise, cut down, weaken”, “A Primitive Root” 1 times “mixed” [wine mixed with water]

Isaiah 1:22.


Honey [ Strong's H1706 ]: Hebrew Transliterated: dĕbash; Hebrew: דְּבַשׁ - commonly translated into the English: “honey”. “From an unused root meaning to be gummy” 52 times “honey”, 1 times “honeycomb” [+03295], 1 times “honeycomb” [+06688]

Genesis 43:11;

Exodus 3:8,17, 13:5, 16:31, 33:3;

Leviticus 2:11, 20:24;

Numbers 13:27, 14:8, 16:13,14;

Deuteronomy 6:3, 8:8, 11:9, 26:9,15, 27:3, 31:20, 32:13;

Joshua 5:6;

Judges 14:8,9,18;

1 Samuel 14:25,26,27,29,43;

2 Samuel 17:29;

1 Kings 14:3;

2 Kings 18:32;

2 Chronicles 31:5;

Job 20:17;

Psalms 19:10, 81:16, 119:103;

Proverbs 16:24, 24:13, 25:16,27;

Song Of Songs [Solomon] 4:11, 5:1;

Isaiah 7:15,22;

Jeremiah 11:5, 32:22, 41:8;

Ezekiel 3:3, 16:13,19, 20:6,15, 27:17.



Wine [ Strong's G3631 ]: Greek Transliterated: oinos; Greek: οἶνος - commonly translated into the English: “wine”. “A primary word or perhaps from H3196 [ yayin יַיִן wine ]” 32 times “wine”, 1 times “winepress” [+ 3125]

Matthew 9:17;

Mark 2:22, 15:23;

Luke 1:15, 5:37,38, 7:33, 10:34;

John 2:3,9,10, 4:46;

Romans 14:21;

Ephesians 5:18;

1 Timothy 3:8, 5:23;

Titus 2:3;

Revelation 6:6, 14:8,10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3,13, 19:15.



New Wine [ Strong's G1098 ]: Greek Transliterated: gleukos; Greek: γλεῦκος - commonly translated into the English: “new wine” [ sweet wine ]. “Akin to G1099 [ glykys γλυκύς sweet ]” 1 times “new wine”

Acts 2:13.


Vine [of the; Fruit] [ Strong's G288 ]: Greek Transliterated: ampelos; Greek: ἄμπελος - commonly translated into the English: “vine” [ of the; Fruit ]. “From G297 [amphoteroi ἀμφότεροι both] and G257 [halōnἅλων a ground plot or threshing floor]” 9 times “vine”

Matthew 26:29;

Mark 14:25;

Luke 22:18;

John 15:1,4,5;

James 3:12;

Revelation 14:18,19.



Vinegar [ Strong's G3690 ]: Greek Transliterated: oxos; Greek: ὄξος - commonly translated into the English: “vinegar”. “From G3691 [ oxys ὀξύς sharp, swift, quick ]” 7 times “vinegar”

Matthew 27:34,48;

Mark 15:36;

Luke 23:36;

John 19:29,30.



Excess of wine [ Strong's G3632 ]” Greek Transliterated: oinophlygia; Greek: οἰνοφλυγία - commonly translated into the English: “excess of wine”. “From G3631 [oinos οἶνος wine ] and G5397 [ phlyaros φλύαρος persons uttering or doing silly things, babbling ]” 1 times “excess of wine”

1 Peter 4:3.


Given To Wine [ Strong's G3943 ]: Greek Transliterated: paroinos; Greek: πάροινος - commonly translated into the English: “given to wine, drunken”. “From G3844 [ para παρά from, of, at, by, besides, near ] and G3631 [ oinos οἶνος wine ] ” 2 times “given to wine”

1 Timothy 3:3; Titus 1:7.


Winebibber [ Strong's G3630 ]: Greek Transliterated: oinopotēs; Greek οἰνοπότης - commonly translated into the English: “winebibber”. “From G3631 [ oinos οἶνος wine ] and G4095 [ pinō πίνω to drink ]” 2 times “winebibber”

Matthew 11:19;

Luke 7:34.



Have Well Drunk, Be Drunken, Be Made Drunk [ Strong's G3184 ]: Greek Transliterated: methyō; Greek: μεθύω - commonly translated into the English: “Be Drunken, Have well Drunk, Be Made Drunk”. “From G3178 [ methē μέθη intoxication, drunkenness]” 5 times “Be Drunken”, 1 times “Have Well Drunk”, 1 times “Be Made Drunk”

Mathew 24:49;

John 2:10;

Acts 2:15;

1 Corinthians 11:21;

1 Thessalonians 5:7;

Revelation 17:2,6.



Drunkenness [ Strong's G3178 ]: Greek Transliterated: methē; Greek: μέθη - commonly translated into the English: “drunkenness”. “Apparently a root word” 3 times “drunkenness”

Luke 21:34;

Romans 13:13;

Galatians 5:21.
 
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Excessive use of animal products cause heart disease, which is one of the leading causes of death in developed countries, in the same way, excessive use of fermented drink has caused much sickness and financial hardships but you know what, Jesus ate meat and drank wine. Drunkenness and gluttony are sins not eating meat and drinking wine. Remember, food for the stomach and the stomach for food but God will destroy both food and stomach in the end. The issues is not eating meat or drinking wine, but rather, gluttony and drunkenness, which is not determined by having a beer while eating a cheese burger.

Now I know I've asked this question of you several times now with no answer given but maybe you'll answer now since you've identified yourself as an expert on biblical wine.

The wine that a deacon must not drink too much of is that grape juice or fermented wine?
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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The Bible over and over warns against alcoholic content, to stay away from it...

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1

Notice it does not mention quantity here. It merely states the very nature of the thing, that this alcoholic "wine" is,

Wine = mocker
Strong Drink = Raging

And it mentions those who are "deceived" by them are "not wise".

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7

...it "stingeth like an adder", "biteth like a serpent", "poison of dragons", "cruel venom of asps", "mocker", "raging", "wounds without cause", etc... also causing the forgetting of the Commandments and the LAW, and causing wrong judgment...and the Bible says "woe unto them"...

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Isaiah 5:22

For the LORD JESUS CHRIST drank of the "fruit of the vine" [Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18] not ever of the "alcoholic wine" nor "strong drink"...

How shall we know? By the WORD of GOD:

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 1 Corinthians 10:16

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. Isaiah 65:8

All Christians are called to be Kings and Priests, a Royal Priesthood; CHRIST JESUS is HIMSELF the Annointed King of Kings and High Priest over all:

"...an holy priesthood..." (1 Peter 2:5;p)

"...a royal priesthood, an holy nation..." (1 Peter 2:9;p)

"...kings and priests unto God and his Father..." (Revelation 1:6;p)

"...unto our God kings and priests..." (Revelation 5:10;p)

Alcohol is especially not for Kings:

"...not for kings...not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:" (Proverbs 31:4;p)

"Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted." (Proverbs 31:5)

Alcohol is especially not for Priests:

"Do not drink wine nor strong drink..." (Leviticus 10:9) [especially when entered into the Tabernacle work; and we are entered in with Him [Christ Jesus] by Faith, even now into the Most Holy in Heaven, the Anti-typical Day of Atonement]

"...put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;" (Leviticus 10:10)

Our bodies are the Temple of the HOLY SPIRIT. GOD calls us to be Holy as HE is Holy and to make a difference:

"...it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16; See also Leviticus 20:7)

Alcohol is especially not for the pregnant, and not for those to be filled with the Holy Spirit of God and for those given a special mission from God:

And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou [art] barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. Judges 13:3

Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean [thing]: Judges 13:4

The Bible especially reveals the very real and serious dangers of those who are drunkards, constantly imbibbing, unable to cease, a slave to alcohol.

Many people say that they can stop when they want, but without Christ we cannot do so [John 15:5], but through Christ Jesus all things [Matthew 19:26; Philippians 4:13] and by Him we can be “overcomers”:

Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: Proverbs 23:20;

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe [a man] with rags. Proverbs 23:21

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? Proverbs 23:29

They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Proverbs 23:30

Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright. Proverbs 23:31

At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Proverbs 23:32

Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Proverbs 23:33

Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. Proverbs 23:34

They have stricken me, [shalt thou say, and] I was not sick; they have beaten me, [and] I felt [it] not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. Proverbs 23:35

In the Bible, they did not have the same preservation methods that we have today regarding anything that was harvested, and pressed and stored [though there were certain historical preservation methods available, but not perfect, hence that which was “new”, "good" and “better” and normally served first [as it was refreshing and revitalizing], and that which was served last, “that which is worse”, beginning to turn].

Jesus makes a parallel of His New Doctrines [the New “wine”] to those clinging to the Older and corrupted [leavened] Doctrines of the Pharisees [Luke 5:39], which were not based upon scripture, but rather on the traditions and teachings of men which were breaking the commandments of God.

Anything [like the grape], once taken from the "vine" [which is where the word "wine" comes from - simply meaning "of the vine"] would begin to rotten, to decay, to ferment after a length or period of time.

The "New Wine" [that which was just taken from harvest or vine] would last several days, possibly weeks, months [depending upon preservation, which they did have] and eventually begin to ferment on its own, so beginning to cause expansion.

This is why it could not be placed into "old bottles", for this process would then burst asunder those older bottles [see Job 32:19; Joshua 9:13], so it had to be placed into "new bottles" [wherein there was strength and room for stretching.] Jesus mentions this very thing [Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37-38].

The "New Wine" was indeed pure juice of the grape [unfermented, unleavened], and as scripture has said of it:

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. Isaiah 65:8

This is how the Bible uses the term "New Wine" [see also Isaiah 16:10, Proverbs 3:10], and further by saying that which is "found in the cluster", pure grape juice, meant for "joy" and "gladness" [Psalms 104:15; Ecclesiastes 9:7, etc].

So, that which is "found in the cluster" (Isaiah 65:8), pure grape juice, is meant for joy and gladness (Zechariah 10:7), such as a wedding (John 2:1-11, 4:46) or feast (Psalms 104:15; Ecclesiastes 9:7, etc).

Thus it is, that this "wine" was the New "wine", the Juice of Harvest, joy and blessing, that Jesus drank of and made and taught:

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Matthew 26:29

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. Mark 14:25

For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. Luke 22:18

It is obvious from scripture that there are two "wines". one of Blessing and another of cursing, one of life and joy, and one of death and sorrow. Let us continue to look further and see...
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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...Now I know I've asked this question of you several times now with no answer given ...

The wine that a deacon must not drink too much of is that grape juice or fermented wine?

Thank you for your continued patience and long-suffering with me Mr. K4C. If you will continue yet still further with me on this subject, we shall indeed look at those very passages, and I hope they will be considered by all in the light of that which is yet to be presented and studied.

Please pray for me as this subject is presented, so that it may be presented in truth and especially this love, the love of Christ Jesus:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:2

If I should present the subject even very accurately in every detail, without love, what shall it profit anyone?

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: 1 Peter 1:22

By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35

K4C, Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. Jude 1:2
 
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k4c

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You leave me longing for an answer to my question.

The words, winebibber and glutton, are the words used to identify the exessive use of food and fermented wine. These are the exaggerated words the pharasees used to accuse Jesus of doing wrong because of His moderate use of fermented wine and eating of meat.

You've spent alot of time pointing out verses that speak of the excessive use of fermented wine so that we can see how wine can become a mocker and a brawler if used in an inappropriate way, thank you for that. Now I ask you, as an honest teacher of the word who is not trying to push a personal or denominational agenda, to put as much effort in presenting the positive verses in the Bible that speak of the moderate use of fermented wine? We'll give you some time since there are many.

Since I will probably never get a straight and simple answer for my first question, let me ask this one. Is a Nazarite ever allowed to drink fermented wine?
 
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Revelation 14:6-12

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Just as it was said of "John The Baptist" [that man who came in the Spirit and Power of Elijah for the 1st Advent of Christ Jesus, there to then is the end anti-type Elijah, who are to proclaim the 2nd Advent of Christ Jesus, those who preach the 3 Angels Messages of Revelation 14:6-12 and soon to come Revelation 18:1-3, etc...] to drink neither wine nor strong drink:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:15

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:16

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Luke 1:17

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Romans 11:2

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 11:5

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. Matthew 17:11

Just as we are to abide in the True Vine, Christ Jesus, God from which all purity, holiness, blessings and goodness comes, and in Him there is only Life, and no corruption, no falseness, no poison:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:4

We are not to be drinkers of any alcohol, but we are instead to be filled with the Holy Spirit [Luke 1:15], and not an unclean spirit, which comes of those who drink of the alcohol, the very sons and "daughter of Belial" [1 Samuel 1:15-16], worshippers of falsehood, of that great religious system of Babylon:

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Revelation 17:4

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Revelation 18:2


We know that the "fruit of the vine", that "cup of blessing" [Deuteronomy 7:13; Isaiah 65:8] which was at the passover meal, was to be unleavened:


Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Exodus 12:19

Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. Exodus 13:7

Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. Exodus 34:25

Christians are to be followers of Jesus Christ and should never drink "fermented wine". The Word of God has plainly warned us to stay away from it in many, many places, even giving us perfect examples of what happens to those who choose to disregard the wise counsel... [a few: Genesis 9:21, 19:32; Leviticus 10:9-11; Isaiah 5:11-12, 19:14, 28:7; Ezekiel 44:23; Psalms 60:3; Proverbs 23:20-21,33, 31:4-5; Hosea 7:5; Habakkuk 2:15; 1 Timothy 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8]

What is the example of Christ Jesus? What of the wedding of Cana, that Jesus attended? What was that wine which He Himself had made?

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: John 2:1

And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. John 2:2

And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. John 2:3

And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. John 2:6

Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. John 2:7

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, John 2:9

And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now. John 2:10

This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him. John 2:11

So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. John 4:46

Are we to suppose that Christ Jesus, made 90-150 gallons of alcohol to consume at a wedding feast, a place of celebration, blessing, rejoicing and joy, and not one of drunkeness, cursing, licentiousness and revelry?

Notice that the event was a Wedding. Now in the Bible, a Wedding was not a place for getting intoxicated, but rather was a joyous celebration and new life together.

This event is a symbol of the very pure Wedding of Christ Jesus to His own Church Bride, in fact the entire Second Advent is in the context of a Wedding.

Jesus, called the “Bridegroom” by John the Baptist, comes to see His Betrothed [Church], then goes to “prepare a place” for “her” [He ascends to Heaven], just as the Bridegroom would go back to the Father's house [where there are many Mansions] and build an add-on room [a place in New Jerusalem], and would then after a time “come again” and “receive” “her” unto himself in the Wedding [Jesus Second Advent].

Notice, where it was asked for wine, the wedding had already taken place. Jesus then goes to where there are “six” waterpots of stone which contained “two or three firkins apiece”. That is actually a little less than 9 English Gallons or 40 Litres for each Firkin, est. That is a tremendous amount of “wine”, and if any of that were actually fermented [alcoholic], then Jesus just advocated getting everyone drunk, which of course would be sin.

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to [him], and makest [him] drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! Habakkuk 2:5

Jesus is the pure vine [John 15:5], and so then He is the 7th Jar, that vessel of the pure, which eternally pours forth and from which all blessings flow, and so He pours into the 6 other empty jars. His “doctrine” is Pure and His “Wine” is pure, just as He is "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens" [Hebrews 7:26], unfermented, and fills us, bringing great joy.

For in Scripture, “wine” is a symbol for “doctrine”, and fermented "wine" representing sin, apostacy, corruption, cursing and unfermented [pure juice of the grape] representing joy, life, newness, blessing.

Fermented grape [alcoholic content], represented sin, wickedness, rebellion, and corrupted doctrines:

Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. Jeremiah 51:7

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Revelation 14:8

JESUS also spoke of the corrupt spiritual Leaven [fermentation]:

Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:6

Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:12

And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod. Mark 8:15

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Luke 12:1

… and even by Paul, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:" 1 Corinthians 5:7

Let us continue to look at further examples and texts in/of scripture...
 
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k4c

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Just as it was said of "John The Baptist" [that man who came in the Spirit and Power of Elijah for the 1st Advent of Christ Jesus, there to then is the end anti-type Elijah, who are to proclaim the 2nd Advent of Christ Jesus, those who preach the 3 Angels Messages of Revelation 14:6-12 and soon to come Revelation 18:1-3, etc...] to drink neither wine nor strong drink:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:15

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:16

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Luke 1:17

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Romans 11:2

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 11:5

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. Matthew 17:11

Just as we are to abide in the True Vine, Christ Jesus, God from which all purity, holiness, blessings and goodness comes, and in Him there is only Life, and no corruption, no falseness, no poison:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:4

We are not to be drinkers of any alcohol, but we are instead to be filled with the Holy Spirit [Luke 1:15], and not an unclean spirit, which comes of those who drink of the alcohol, the very sons and "daughter of Belial" [1 Samuel 1:15-16], worshippers of falsehood, of that great religious system of Babylon:

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Revelation 17:4

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Revelation 18:2


We know that the "fruit of the vine", that "cup of blessing" [Deuteronomy 7:13; Isaiah 65:8] which was at the passover meal, was to be unleavened:


Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Exodus 12:19

Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. Exodus 13:7

Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. Exodus 34:25

Christians are to be followers of Jesus Christ and should never drink "fermented wine". The Word of God has plainly warned us to stay away from it in many, many places, even giving us perfect examples of what happens to those who choose to disregard the wise counsel... [a few: Genesis 9:21, 19:32; Leviticus 10:9-11; Isaiah 5:11-12, 19:14, 28:7; Ezekiel 44:23; Psalms 60:3; Proverbs 23:20-21,33, 31:4-5; Hosea 7:5; Habakkuk 2:15; 1 Timothy 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8]

What is the example of Christ Jesus? What of the wedding of Cana, that Jesus attended? What was that wine which He Himself had made?

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: John 2:1

And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. John 2:2

And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. John 2:3

And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. John 2:6

Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. John 2:7

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, John 2:9

And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now. John 2:10

This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him. John 2:11

So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. John 4:46

Are we to suppose that Christ Jesus, made 90-150 gallons of alcohol to consume at a wedding feast, a place of celebration, blessing, rejoicing and joy, and not one of drunkeness, cursing, licentiousness and revelry?

Notice that the event was a Wedding. Now in the Bible, a Wedding was not a place for getting intoxicated, but rather was a joyous celebration and new life together.

This event is a symbol of the very pure Wedding of Christ Jesus to His own Church Bride, in fact the entire Second Advent is in the context of a Wedding.

Jesus, called the “Bridegroom” by John the Baptist, comes to see His Betrothed [Church], then goes to “prepare a place” for “her” [He ascends to Heaven], just as the Bridegroom would go back to the Father's house [where there are many Mansions] and build an add-on room [a place in New Jerusalem], and would then after a time “come again” and “receive” “her” unto himself in the Wedding [Jesus Second Advent].

Notice, where it was asked for wine, the wedding had already taken place. Jesus then goes to where there are “six” waterpots of stone which contained “two or three firkins apiece”. That is actually a little less than 9 English Gallons or 40 Litres for each Firkin, est. That is a tremendous amount of “wine”, and if any of that were actually fermented [alcoholic], then Jesus just advocated getting everyone drunk, which of course would be sin.

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to [him], and makest [him] drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! Habakkuk 2:5

Jesus is the pure vine [John 15:5], and so then He is the 7th Jar, that vessel of the pure, which eternally pours forth and from which all blessings flow, and so He pours into the 6 other empty jars. His “doctrine” is Pure and His “Wine” is pure, just as He is "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens" [Hebrews 7:26], unfermented, and fills us, bringing great joy.

For in Scripture, “wine” is a symbol for “doctrine”, and fermented "wine" representing sin, apostacy, corruption, cursing and unfermented [pure juice of the grape] representing joy, life, newness, blessing.

Fermented grape [alcoholic content], represented sin, wickedness, rebellion, and corrupted doctrines:

Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. Jeremiah 51:7

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Revelation 14:8

JESUS also spoke of the corrupt spiritual Leaven [fermentation]:

Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:6

Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:12

And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod. Mark 8:15

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Luke 12:1

… and even by Paul, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:" 1 Corinthians 5:7

Let us continue to look at further examples and texts in/of scripture...


You must hate my questions. Do they keep you up at night?

You say John the Baptist drank no wine so he should be our example. He didn't eat bread either. What sayeth thou?

Did you know that our example is Jesus, not John the Baptist?

Did you know that there is also a good leaven?

Can you stop reading the Bible through EGW glasses for a minute and start reading all the texts, both positive and negative, regarding wine use in the Bible? You might find that we will agree.
 
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You must hate my questions. Do they keep you up at night?

You say John the Baptist drank no wine so he should be our example. He didn't eat bread either. What sayeth thou?

Did you know that our example is Jesus, not John the Baptist?

Did you know that there is also a good leaven?

Can you stop reading the Bible through EGW glasses for a minute and start reading all the texts, both positive and negative, regarding wine use in the Bible? You might find that we will agree.

I wonder if the Baptists had EGW glasses then too.:cool:
 
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k4c

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I wonder if the Baptists had EGW glasses then too.:cool:

It depends on what they want to see. Certain glasses are used and shared by certain people to see certain things while being blinded to other things for personal agendas or to promote something that seems right to them in their own eyes. EGW, Baptists and several other denominations got their glasses because of what they saw going on in their time. If we study the Bible using the Holy Spirit's glasses we would see both the positive and negative verses in the Bible regarding wine use and come to a biblically sound conclusion. Then we, as an individual, can make a personal choice to partake or abstain based on a personal choice, not a false conclusion.

The problem with false doctrines is that they form the glasses we wear and cause us to avoid verses that refute the false doctrine. We know this is happening when we see them refusing to answer questions that use the verses that their glasses won't let them see and accept. You really have to take off all glasses that are not of the Holy Spirit and we know they are not of the Holy Spirit because they can't see the verses or answer the questions that lead to the truth.
 
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OntheDL

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It depends on what they want to see. Certain glasses are used and shared by certain people to see certain things while being blinded to other things for personal agendas or to promote something that seems right to them in their own eyes. EGW, Baptists and several other denominations got their glasses because of what they saw going on in their time. If we study the Bible using the Holy Spirit's glasses we would see both the positive and negative verses in the Bible regarding wine use and come to a biblically sound conclusion. Then we, as an individual, can make a personal choice to partake or abstain based on a personal choice, not a false conclusion.
Why can't different group of people come to the same conclusion based on interpreting the scriptures and not by using coloured glasses. How do you know you are not seeing things through coloured glasses?

The problem with false doctrines is that they form the glasses we wear and cause us to avoid verses that refute the false doctrine. We know this is happening when we see them refusing to answer questions that use the verses that their glasses won't let them see and accept. You really have to take off all glasses that are not of the Holy Spirit and we know they are not of the Holy Spirit because they can't see the verses or answer the questions that lead to the truth.
We have already been through this many times. When answers were given to the few verses you brought up, you simply ignored them.

You call yourself an adventist and yet you think we have false doctrines. If I find false doctrines in Adventism I would leave the Adventist church because there has always been a remnant group in every epoch according to the bible. It's really sad for you because you have no where to go.
 
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k4c

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OntheDL;Why can't different group of people come to the same conclusion based on interpreting the scriptures and not by using coloured glasses. How do you know you are not seeing things through coloured glasses?

My glasses have been colored by the leading of God's Spirit in light of the context of a verse.

We have already been through this many times. When answers were given to the few verses you brought up, you simply ignored them.

Let me ask you.

Is the wine that a deacon must not drink much of fermented wine or grape juice?

Can a Nazarite drink fermented wine?

You call yourself an adventist and yet you think we have false doctrines. If I find false doctrines in Adventism I would leave the Adventist church because there has always been a remnant group in every epoch according to the bible.

Do you believe EGW was infallible?

Do you believe the SDA had every doctrine correct from day one?

Fermented wine at the Lord's supper?

1 Corinthians 11:20 When you meet together, you are not really interested in the Lord’s Supper.

The Lord's supper was not meant to feed you, but rather, it was meant for fellowship but they were coming in and eating all the food before everyone else leaving only the fermeneted wine to drink resulting in them getting drunk.

1 Corinthians 11:21-22 For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk. What? Don’t you have your own homes for eating and drinking?

Food and wine at the Lord's Supper was meant for fellowship purpose but since they devoured the food they ruined the spirit of fellowship. Not only that, the people who got no food had only wine to drink. As a result of having no food in their stomach, they got drunk pretty easy. I guess this was a miracle because who can get drunk on grape juice?:doh:

It's really sad for you because you have no where to go.

It's not sad for me and I'm not looking to go anywhere because there is so much work to do right here among God's people.

You may not realize this but I'm not the only one within the SDA that sees these things. Some are speaking up, such as myself, while others are still too afraid. It's all in God's time. Besides, not drinking fermented wine is a good thing it's just understanding why you don't drink it is where we need to grow more.
 
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OntheDL

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My glasses have been colored by the leading of God's Spirit in light of the context of a verse.

Let me ask you.

Is the wine that a deacon must not drink much of fermented wine or grape juice?
You should read the context (before and after) rather than just one verse. Paul admonished the elders not to drink and 'likewise' meaning by the same logic for the deacons. Paul was in no way permitting the deacons to drink.

Can a Nazarite drink fermented wine?
Nazarites were not only forbidden to drink alcohol, they were also not allowed to eat dried grapes. God had Nazarites' mind off of the spoils of the world.

Do you believe EGW was infallible?
How long have you called yourself a SDA? Where have you read that EGW was infallible? The spirit of prophecy is not Ellen White. The spirit of prophecy is Jesus Christ. Be careful who you are rejecting.

Do you believe the SDA had every doctrine correct from day one?
The SDAs? Their Millerite pioneers had incomplete concepts. But the Seventh-day Adventists do not have errors in their doctrines after the formulation.

Fermented wine at the Lord's supper?
1 Corinthians 11:20 When you meet together, you are not really interested in the Lord’s Supper.

The Lord's supper was not meant to feed you, but rather, it was meant for fellowship but they were coming in and eating all the food before everyone else leaving only the fermeneted wine to drink resulting in them getting drunk.

1 Corinthians 11:21-22 For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk. What? Don’t you have your own homes for eating and drinking?

Food and wine at the Lord's Supper was meant for fellowship purpose but since they devoured the food they ruined the spirit of fellowship. Not only that, the people who got no food had only wine to drink. As a result of having no food in their stomach, they got drunk pretty easy. I guess this was a miracle because who can get drunk on grape juice?:doh:
This is a clear example of proof text on your part. You are looking for things through coloured glasses that you could not see Paul was saying 'this is not to eat the Lord's supper (vs20)'. 'For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper (vs21)'. The context actually shows The Corinthians were eating and drinking not for the glory of God.

The Lord's Supper replaced the Passover. The Passover took place in what's called the the Passover week. The Passover week consists the Passover and the days of the Feast of the unleavened bread. During that week, the yeast/leaven is removed from the Jewish household. They eat unleavened bread and drink unfermented wine. Because they represent the uncorrupted body and blood of Jesus after crucifixion and before the Day of First Fruits which represents his resurrection. How can there be fermentation and corruption in the body and blood of Jesus?

It's not sad for me and I'm not looking to go anywhere because there is so much work to do right here among God's people.

You may not realize this but I'm not the only one within the SDA that sees these things. Some are speaking up, such as myself, while others are still too afraid. It's all in God's time. Besides, not drinking fermented wine is a good thing it's just understanding why you don't drink it is where we need to grow more.
Actually you are very late to the game. JH Kellogg, AT Jones, EJ Waggoner and Dudley Canwright from the beginning attacked Adventist doctrine. Then Desmond Ford continued in Canwright's path. They attacked the core, the fundamental beliefs of Adventism unlike the petty things you have been repeating.

I said it's sad for you because you do not believe in God's promise that He had and has preserved a remnant group that possesses the pure faith free from error and deception.
 
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k4c

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OntheDL;You should read the context (before and after) rather than just one verse. Paul admonished the elders not to drink and 'likewise' meaning by the same logic for the deacons. Paul was in no way permitting the deacons to drink.

Do you think I just post with doing my study first? The verses before say the same thing.

1 Timothy 3:3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money.

1 Timothy 3:8 In the same way, deacons must be well respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers or dishonest with money.

Nazarites were not only forbidden to drink alcohol, they were also not allowed to eat dried grapes. God had Nazarites' mind off of the spoils of the world.

Number 6:20 'Then the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. It is holy for the priest, together with the breast offered by waving and the thigh offered by lifting up; and afterward the Nazirite may drink wine.'

How long have you called yourself a SDA? Where have you read that EGW was infallible? The spirit of prophecy is not Ellen White.

Who said I read it anywhere. I get the sense of it from people who refuse to see what the Bible is really saying over what EGW has said as though what she has said is infallible.

The spirit of prophecy is Jesus Christ. Be careful who you are rejecting.

The Pope also says he has the Spirit of Christ and he changed the Sabbath day. I guess I really have to lean on the Bible to get the truth, not the words of men or women.

The SDAs? Their Millerite pioneers had incomplete concepts. But the Seventh-day Adventists do not have errors in their doctrines after the formulation.

Really now!!!

This is a clear example of proof text on your part. You are looking for things through coloured glasses that you could not see Paul was saying 'this is not to eat the Lord's supper (vs20)'. 'For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper (vs21)'. The context actually shows The Corinthians were eating and drinking not for the glory of God.

The Lord's Supper replaced the Passover. The Passover took place in what's called the the Passover week. The Passover week consists the Passover and the days of the Feast of the unleavened bread. During that week, the yeast/leaven is removed from the Jewish household. They eat unleavened bread and drink unfermented wine. Because they represent the uncorrupted body and blood of Jesus after crucifixion and before the Day of First Fruits which represents his resurrection. How can there be fermentation and corruption in the body and blood of Jesus?

If I were looking to formulate a doctrine on how to eat a fellowship supper I point out the words that you pointed out but if I were trying to see if fermented wine was used at a fellowship supper I would point out the verses that I pointed out. And the verses that I pointed out said they got drunk from wine at the fellowship...period.

Actually you are very late to the game. JH Kellogg, AT Jones, EJ Waggoner and Dudley Canwright from the beginning attacked Adventist doctrine. Then Desmond Ford continued in Canwright's path. They attacked the core, the fundamental beliefs of Adventism unlike the petty things you have been repeating.

How can you, as an Adventist, say sound biblical truth is petty...shame on you.

I said it's sad for you because you do not believe in God's promise that He had and has preserved a remnant group that possesses the pure faith free from error and deception.

Really now!!!
 
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Do you think I just post with doing my study first? The verses before say the same thing.

1 Timothy 3:3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money.

1 Timothy 3:8 In the same way, deacons must be well respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers or dishonest with money.
Didn't you say you prefer NKJV? Now you quote from NLT because it fits your belief better?

KJV and even NKJV tell a different story, don't they?

KJV 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

NKJV 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

Number 6:20 'Then the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. It is holy for the priest, together with the breast offered by waving and the thigh offered by lifting up; and afterward the Nazirite may drink wine.'

Who said I read it anywhere. I get the sense of it from people who refuse to see what the Bible is really saying over what EGW has said as though what she has said is infallible.

The Pope also says he has the Spirit of Christ and he changed the Sabbath day. I guess I really have to lean on the Bible to get the truth, not the words of men or women.

Really now!!!

If I were looking to formulate a doctrine on how to eat a fellowship supper I point out the words that you pointed out but if I were trying to see if fermented wine was used at a fellowship supper I would point out the verses that I pointed out. And the verses that I pointed out said they got drunk from wine at the fellowship...period.

Really now!!!

Again, what you are doing is text proving: taking text out of context to fit your agenda.

You quoted Number 6:20 to show the Nazarites 'may drink wine'. But in the context it was a part of the sacrificial ceremony to eat the sacrifice and drink the drink offering (grape juice) to mark the completion of the Nazarite vow while you totally ignored a few verses early it forbids the Nazarites to drink alcohol.

Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Furthermore the use of alcohol is strictly forbidden inside of the sanctuary on the penalty of death.

Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

The burnt offerings were by-law accompanied by drink offerings: unfermented grape juice.
How can you, as an Adventist, say sound biblical truth is petty...shame on you.

It's petty because you have been on CF for how long? Almost 10 years, and as far as I can remember since I joined in 05/06, you have been posting the same type of posts. You have never grown to the weightier matter of our faith: the core, fundamental beliefs.

Sound biblical truth is established by what the bible teaches as a while, not by text-proving the way you manipulate the text. The bible does not endorse alcohol consumption and it can not contradict itself. In the OT, God condemns the use of alcohol and warns against the evil nature of alcohol: calling it bites like a serpent, stings like an adder and makes you think and do perverse things, calling whosoever drink strong drink is not wise, admonishing anyone from drinking strong drink and pronouncing it a curse to drink strong drink.

How do you reconcile these teachings with your interpretation of the few verses you quoted?
 
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