Baptism to be Saved?

GoodMorning2011 · Jun 8, 2011

search "abc to eternal life" on google.

royallighting7 · Jun 10, 2011

Phoebe Ann said:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 5:9

Perhaps the new believer has a scheduled baptism, but is killed in an automobile accident before the time of baptism arrives.

People who say water baptism is necessary for salvation claim there's a "baptism of desire" that the thief on the cross received. I don't believe that. Just as you quoted in John's Gospel, only belief on Christ is what we need.

PROPHECYKID · Jun 11, 2011

royallighting7 said:
People who say water baptism is necessary for salvation claim there's a "baptism of desire" that the thief on the cross received. I don't believe that. Just as you quoted in John's Gospel, only belief on Christ is what we need.

Only what the bible says is what we need what we need. Not what you say is what we need. The bible does say we need to believe. You can quote a few scriptures saying just that. But the reason the bible has 66 books is because all we need to know is not in 1 verse. Everything written in the bible is written for our learning and profitable for doctrine. While John 3:16 which speaks of believe is profitable, it does not mean Mark 16:16 which speaks of belief + Baptism is not profitable. Then added to that James lets us know that just saying we believe is not enough but our works must demonstrate that we believe, for the devils also believe. Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be baptized of water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom. How on earth can we declare that it is not necessary. Does the experience of the thief on the cross mean the bible is a lie, or does it mean that God is just and reasonable and if you never had the chance to have water baptism he would save you based on your faith. We as Christians should go by the bible. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

PROPHECYKID · Jun 11, 2011

Lord Herdsetk said:
What if I drown during baptism and don't make it up out of the water?
What if only my big toe makes it into the water before I can be baptized fully?
What if someone went in the water right before me (its a busy day), contaminating the baptism water?

I think we're being a bit silly. John 3:16-18 spells it out pretty clearly.

And Mark 16:16 is unclear?

royallighting7 · Jun 14, 2011

PROPHECYKID said:
Only what the bible says is what we need what we need. Not what you say is what we need. The bible does say we need to believe. You can quote a few scriptures saying just that. But the reason the bible has 66 books is because all we need to know is not in 1 verse. Everything written in the bible is written for our learning and profitable for doctrine. While John 3:16 which speaks of believe is profitable, it does not mean Mark 16:16 which speaks of belief + Baptism is not profitable. Then added to that James lets us know that just saying we believe is not enough but our works must demonstrate that we believe, for the devils also believe. Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be baptized of water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom. How on earth can we declare that it is not necessary. Does the experience of the thief on the cross mean the bible is a lie, or does it mean that God is just and reasonable and if you never had the chance to have water baptism he would save you based on your faith. We as Christians should go by the bible. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

As a former hardcore atheist, I know how difficult it is the change from a belief that one holds very strongly, even if it's wrong. Too many people wanna hold on the the belief that anything they do or don't do can make them lose their salvation. The thief on the cross shows that water baptism is not necessary to enter "Paradise". Only through Christ can we be saved. Once can't hold different standards for salvation for each person. Christ is the only measure. If the blood of bulls and goats can't save us, how is water going to save us?

Yarddog · Jun 14, 2011

royallighting7 said:
As a former hardcore atheist, I know how difficult it is the change from a belief that one holds very strongly, even if it's wrong. Too many people wanna hold on the the belief that anything they do or don't do can make them lose their salvation. The thief on the cross shows that water baptism is not necessary to enter "Paradise". Only through Christ can we be saved. Once can't hold different standards for salvation for each person. Christ is the only measure. If the blood of bulls and goats can't save us, how is water going to save us?

Water does not save us, it is the faith in Jesus that saves those who are obedient to Jesus. Water baptism is the baptism of repentance. The water is a symbol of the flood washing away sin for those who truly repent through faith. But, Christian baptism is more than the baptism of John.

Jesus called for us to get baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 is quite clear: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever "does not believe" will be condemned.

Faith is what is necessary for us to be baptized into the body of Christ. That is why John refused to baptize the Pharisees.

Do you have faith?

If you have faith, do you refuse to obey the words of Jesus? Jesus also commanded in Matthew 28:
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."
Do you tell Jesus what is necessary to be saved, or do you obey his direct commands.

Faith leads children of God to obey.

royallighting7 · Jun 14, 2011

Yarddog said:
Water does not save us, it is the faith in Jesus that saves those who are obedient to Jesus. Water baptism is the baptism of repentance. The water is a symbol of the flood washing away sin for those who truly repent through faith. But, Christian baptism is more than the baptism of John.

Jesus called for us to get baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 is quite clear: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever "does not believe" will be condemned.

Faith is what is necessary for us to be baptized into the body of Christ. That is why John refused to baptize the Pharisees.

Do you have faith?

If you have faith, do you refuse to obey the words of Jesus? Jesus also commanded in Matthew 28:
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."
Do you tell Jesus what is necessary to be saved, or do you obey his direct commands.

Faith leads children of God to obey.

Yes, I have faith. Faith will cause us to grow in Christ. We can't grow if we're already perfectly obedient the moment we believe.

Are you saying that if one doesn't get baptized, that means they don't have faith?
Is it that we don't have faith if we don't follow the Law? b/c those were orders given by Yahweh Himself. You can't say that the Law doesn't apply, b/c Jesus didnt abolish the Law. If you miss one step in the Law, that would make you disobedient. If you don't love God with your complete being, you are disobedient. Can any of us honestly say we can love God that much?
It's a growing process.

I'm not understanding the extent of what place you believe baptism has in salvation.

Yarddog · Jun 15, 2011

royallighting7 said:
Yes, I have faith. Faith will cause us to grow in Christ. We can't grow if we're already perfectly obedient the moment we believe.

I agree.

royallighting7 said:
Are you saying that if one doesn't get baptized, that means they don't have faith?

Did I say that? But if one downplays the need for baptism it shows a lack of faith and understanding. Baptism is not just washing with water. One that says that lacks understanding.

royallighting7 said:
Is it that we don't have faith if we don't follow the Law?

Baptism has nothing to do with "the Law", at least with the Law of Moses. It does have something to do with the law of the Spirit.

Paul speaks of the difference between the the laws. The law of Moses is the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.[/FONT]

royallighting7 said:
b/c those were orders given by Yahweh Himself. You can't say that the Law doesn't apply, b/c Jesus didnt abolish the Law. If you miss one step in the Law, that would make you disobedient.

The Law of Moses was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. The Jews showed that obedience to a set of Laws cannot justify us and Jesus came to fulfill those Laws. Those who believe in the saving works of Jesus Christ are now justified through faith, but faith is more than just acknowledging that Jesus is our savior.

Faith is a rebirth of the old person into something new. One who grows and learns to "walk" in the Spirit. One that drinks milk at first and then learns to eat solid food. That is the learning process. Some people come to understand the need for baptism later in their walk but baptism is an important part of our Christian walk.

royallighting7 said:
If you don't love God with your complete being, you are disobedient. Can any of us honestly say we can love God that much?

God's call is now for us to trust him over ourselves. That is difficult for many Christians to fully grasp and they want to hold onto control of their lives. Obedience is letting go of that old way of thinking and embracing the new. The cross.

royallighting7 said:
It's a growing process.

Yes it is.

royallighting7 said:
I'm not understanding the extent of what place you believe baptism has in salvation.

Baptism is what we are called to do by Jesus Christ. It is not just a washing of the body but a renewal of the person. I am not saying that one "cannot" be saved "unless" they have been baptized in the Trinitarian method because one can be "baptized" with the Holy Spirit before receiving the baptism of repentance but we are called to do both.

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit as a teenager, in my bedroom late at night. I did not belong to a Church for over 10 years but grew as a child of God. He revealed many scriptures and I heard his voice, as well. But, I suffered from self pride. I put too much into myself and didn't trust God as I should.

I then went through the trials of Job. Afterwards, I asked God what I needed to do to keep from falling back into my prideful ways, he spoke and told me to get baptized and fellowship with other Christians. It was then that, through faith, obeyed his call.

I was 28 at the time and have grown as a child of the Father but I still know that I have so much growing to do.

I don't know if you have been baptized, yet, and I am not telling you to run out there and do it until God lets you know that it is time but baptism is necessary or God would never have told us that it was.

God Bless,
YD

royallighting7 · Jun 20, 2011

Yarddog said:
I agree.

Did I say that? But if one downplays the need for baptism it shows a lack of faith and understanding. Baptism is not just washing with water. One that says that lacks understanding.

I asked you if you said that for clarification on your stance. Dont' take my questions as accusation, just take them as questions. You explained in a later quote though, so thanks.

Paul speaks of the difference between the the laws. The law of Moses is the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.[/FONT]

The Law of Moses was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles. The Jews showed that obedience to a set of Laws cannot justify us and Jesus came to fulfill those Laws. Those who believe in the saving works of Jesus Christ are now justified through faith, but faith is more than just acknowledging that Jesus is our savior.

Faith is a rebirth of the old person into something new. One who grows and learns to "walk" in the Spirit. One that drinks milk at first and then learns to eat solid food. That is the learning process. Some people come to understand the need for baptism later in their walk but baptism is an important part of our Christian walk.

God's call is now for us to trust him over ourselves. That is difficult for many Christians to fully grasp and they want to hold onto control of their lives. Obedience is letting go of that old way of thinking and embracing the new. The cross.

Yes it is.

Baptism is what we are called to do by Jesus Christ. It is not just a washing of the body but a renewal of the person. I am not saying that one "cannot" be saved "unless" they have been baptized in the Trinitarian method because one can be "baptized" with the Holy Spirit before receiving the baptism of repentance but we are called to do both.

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit as a teenager, in my bedroom late at night. I did not belong to a Church for over 10 years but grew as a child of God. He revealed many scriptures and I heard his voice, as well. But, I suffered from self pride. I put too much into myself and didn't trust God as I should.

I then went through the trials of Job. Afterwards, I asked God what I needed to do to keep from falling back into my prideful ways, he spoke and told me to get baptized and fellowship with other Christians. It was then that, through faith, obeyed his call.

I was 28 at the time and have grown as a child of the Father but I still know that I have so much growing to do.

I don't know if you have been baptized, yet, and I am not telling you to run out there and do it until God lets you know that it is time but baptism is necessary or God would never have told us that it was.

God Bless,
YD

Ok, I can agree mostly with what you're saying then. It is an important part of our walk, but not necessary for salvation. I still stay believing that it doesn't "wash" sins away though. Thanks for explaining your stance.
I had been baptised, but that was before I became a Christian.

somethingabouttheName · Jul 5, 2011

I am not Catholic but do believe that baptism is essential to salvation according to the following verses:

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

1 Pet. 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

bbbbbbb · Jul 7, 2011

One thing I always find very curious about those who insist that one is lost unless one is baptized in water is that when I tell them that I have, indeed, been baptized in water they frequently insist to me that my baptism was quite insufficient because I put no faith in it. In fact, they tend to insist that unless you trust your baptism you cannot be saved. Moreover, it is not just any old baptism that will do, but it must be in their denomination. Even the Catholic Church, which is as sacramental as they come, recognizes the baptism of most other denominations as being valid.

So, what do you folks say to the fact the I have believed and have been baptized?

Yarddog · Jul 7, 2011

bbbbbbb said:
So, what do you folks say to the fact the I have believed and have been baptized?

I'd welcome you as a brother either way.

bbbbbbb · Jul 8, 2011

Yarddog said:
I'd welcome you as a brother either way.

Thanks!

Resha Caner · Jul 9, 2011

bbbbbbb said:
One thing I always find very curious about those who insist that one is lost unless one is baptized in water is that when I tell them that I have, indeed, been baptized in water they frequently insist to me that my baptism was quite insufficient because I put no faith in it. In fact, they tend to insist that unless you trust your baptism you cannot be saved. Moreover, it is not just any old baptism that will do, but it must be in their denomination. Even the Catholic Church, which is as sacramental as they come, recognizes the baptism of most other denominations as being valid.

So, what do you folks say to the fact the I have believed and have been baptized?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Are you saying your baptism plays no role, or are you saying that you disagree with other people about what that role is?

grizzlyburr · Jul 25, 2011

if you needed to be baptized to be saved then the guy who died beside Jesus on the cross was lied to by Jesus. Simple question.

CryptoLutheran · Jul 25, 2011

bbbbbbb said:
One thing I always find very curious about those who insist that one is lost unless one is baptized in water is that when I tell them that I have, indeed, been baptized in water they frequently insist to me that my baptism was quite insufficient because I put no faith in it. In fact, they tend to insist that unless you trust your baptism you cannot be saved. Moreover, it is not just any old baptism that will do, but it must be in their denomination. Even the Catholic Church, which is as sacramental as they come, recognizes the baptism of most other denominations as being valid.

So, what do you folks say to the fact the I have believed and have been baptized?

Those sort are turning Baptism into law, which robs the power and mystery of Baptism of it being totally gracious gospel for us.

It's rather clear that since the beginning there have been different acceptable ways to perform Baptism. The earliest method was three-fold immersion, with pouring as an alternative where water was scarce. Pouring overtook immersion in the West as the predominant method, but the East still does a three-fold immersion as was done from antiquity. Single immersion was uncommon in antiquity, but not completely unheard of, and has only become more common in the modern era with the advent of the Anabaptists and their spiritual descendants.

Method is irrelevant, what matters is Baptism itself, where the Word and water come together and by God's gospel promises unites us to His Son and declares us children and heirs of God.

-CryptoLutheran

steve_bakr · Aug 3, 2011

CryptoLutheran said:
Those sort are turning Baptism into law, which robs the power and mystery of Baptism of it being totally gracious gospel for us.

It's rather clear that since the beginning there have been different acceptable ways to perform Baptism. The earliest method was three-fold immersion, with pouring as an alternative where water was scarce. Pouring overtook immersion in the West as the predominant method, but the East still does a three-fold immersion as was done from antiquity. Single immersion was uncommon in antiquity, but not completely unheard of, and has only become more common in the modern era with the advent of the Anabaptists and their spiritual descendants.

Method is irrelevant, what matters is Baptism itself, where the Word and water come together and by God's gospel promises unites us to His Son and declares us children and heirs of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Sometimes the differences lie in whether baptism is believed to be the means of salvation or a symbol or sign of what has already taken place. When I changed from Episcopalian to Evangelical, I was baptised in a different way, but the Catholics accepted my Episcopalian baptism.

John Yurich · Oct 3, 2011

I do not subscribe to the unscriptural doctrine that Baptism saves. I believe Baptism(Infant and Adult) is just a dedication of infants and adults to Jesus.

ViaCrucis · Oct 3, 2011

John Yurich said:
I do not subscribe to the unscriptural doctrine that Baptism saves. I believe Baptism(Infant and Adult) is just a dedication of infants and adults to Jesus.

Except that Scripture is clear about Baptism, it's not a dedication it's an act of God. Going by your chosen icon, perhaps you ought to study your Catechism better.

-CryptoLutheran

pdehart · Oct 4, 2011

This discussion on baptism and salvation has raged on and on and always will. Being raised a Roman Catholic now being a Spirit-filled Christian, going to Bible School and Pastoring for 30 years, the issue comes down to ONE thing and One thing only. Jesus said that the only to be saved is being Born Again, (Jn 3:3). Any discussion about salvation that is not centered on this truth is baseless.

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