San Diego bishop overrules local parish, approves funeral for owner of prominent....

Rebekka said:

Debating whether or not a guy that none of us knew personally deserves a funeral mass... I think it's in poor taste, none of our business and it does no good. We don't know what God knows.

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I agree...

Michie said:

I think it strange how it seems to be overlooked that the parish was basically set-up.

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my point is that it does not make a big differance one way or the other

Rebekka said:

Debating whether or not a guy that none of us knew personally deserves a funeral mass... I think it's in poor taste, none of our business and it does no good. We don't know what God knows.


Yeah, I know that joke. Jesus could have thrown a stone, too.

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I think we're debating whether the bishop had the right to deny it, if the priest had the right to grant it, etc. according to canon law.

If Jesus had thrown the stone, it wouldn't be nice to blame it on his mother...

But would the Blessed Mother have thrown a stone so heavy that even God could not move?
(Combining a joke with a metaphysical question)

A joke...Jesus had a crowd of pharisees around him and the woman caught in adultery, was drawing with his finger in the dirt, and said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Suddenly a rock came flying in and hit Jesus on the head. He looked up startled as this little Jewish woman elbowed her way through the crowd. Jesus said "Mom! I hate it when you do that!".

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A flaw in the joke...
Mary is not a he without sin

She was a she

I know that. I am using a technicality in the phrase "he who is without sin"

SHE was without sin but she was not a he

Root of Jesse said:

Maybe in your church, but not in mine. We have sacraments that absolve us of sins before we die. It's true that it's God's grace that welcomes us to heaven, but the way you're saying it, nobody goes to heaven.

This man, objectively, seems to have been unrepentant. It is that apparent unrepentance that God will consider. When we go to heaven, the first question God will ask is "Do you love me?" The second question will be "Prove it by your life." Looking back, what will you, and God, see??? If a homosexual man cares more about his sexuality than he does about his Father in heaven, this will show when he goes to his judgement. It's true about the people who skip worshipping God to watch football and drink beer all day Sunday, too. What do you love? If it's God, you do as God says we must do.
There's a story about an old man who loved his country so much that when he died, he had fistfulls of his country when he approached the pearly gates. God told him he must let go to get into heaven, but the man refused. God came back later, and the same thing happened. Finally the child Jesus came out and showed him what He had done for him, and the man understood. To go to heaven, you must love God above all things...

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I was quoting the word of God, who are you quoting ? They have free copies of the Word on the Internet.

Dark Radiance said:

Reread my statement. The phrase, "if there is any question..." would imply the doubt. Moreover, since it was an out-of-town priest who made the decision, a priest who was unfamiliar with the parish as well as the diocese, should have not made this decision without consulting the ordinary of the diocese.

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i think you are wrong here

it should not make a difference what parish or diocese the priest is in

if a man is living with his gay lover then i the Church states he is in perpetual sin and living in scandal

like i stated- if this was an abortionist it would be the same thing

the priest has the right and should be given the dignity of not having to perpetuate sin and scandal by administering at a funeral where he knows the deceased is in hell

this priest is being asked to false teach against the Church for the sake of being nice

BAFRIEND said:

i think you are wrong here

it should not make a difference what parish or diocese the priest is in

if a man is living with his gay lover then i the Church states he is in perpetual sin and living in scandal

like i stated- if this was an abortionist it would be the same thing

the priest has the right and should be given the dignity of not having to perpetuate sin and scandal by administering at a funeral where he knows the deceased is in hell

this priest is being asked to false teach against the Church for the sake of being nice

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Contact the tribunal at your local chancery, then. While I am no canonist, I have taken courses in canon law, and am not a neophyte in such things.
Of course it should make a difference whether or not what parish or diocese the priest is in. Canon law has established a system of checks and balances for a reason. Should a priest who knows no Spanish be allowed to go into Latino parish and demand that the people there only do the liturgy in English? Priests have power to do all sorts of things in their parishes, this is not one of them. Canonical procedure was not followed.

Your analogy with the abortionist is flawed. An abortionist has occurred a latae sententiae excommunication by his or her act (see Canon 1398). Homosexuality does not incur the same penalty.

This particular priest was not necessarily being asked to officiate, or if he was and had a crisis of conscience with regards to it, he would have been well within his rights to ask for another priest to officiate. The priest has caused FAR greater scandal with his actions than if he had allowed it. This priest has no idea at all where the soul of the deceased resides. While the priest is alter Christus, he is not alter Deus. Only God may judge the human soul, not a priest, no matter how self-important he may consider himself.

No the priest is being asked to be compassionate and merciful for the sake of being an appropriate witness for the Christian faith.

My grandfather received a Catholic funeral (I was there). He shouldn't of: he was a lapsed, thrice-divorced, and non-practising Catholic. However, my pastor took pity upon my family and kindly gave him a Catholic funeral. He didn't have to, but he did. Now, I am not saying that all such persons should. Or even that my grandfather should have. Nevertheless, it was a nice gesture; an exception to the rules.

However, if they are public impenitent sinners whose Catholic burial or funeral would come off as the Church giving, even tacitly, a stamp of approval to the person's lifestyle or sin as something that's okay, then yes the priest or the bishop is well within his rights---it'd be even his duty to not give that person or those persons a Catholic funeral.

Do any of us know what comes into the mind of a person as they realise they are dying ?

There is always time for them to repent - even in their last few seconds of lucidity.

Lord have mercy !

Anhelyna that's why I offered no further comment other than a prayer. I can't see the point in arguing over this now.

Anhelyna, I echo your words; that's all we can know truly. We can hope and pray for their souls. However, unless God by singular grace reveals otherwise to us, we simply cannot or will never know.

Your analogy with the abortionist is flawed. An abortionist has occurred a latae sententiae excommunication by his or her act (see Canon 1398). Homosexuality does not incur the same penalty

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any deliberate sex outside marriage is mortal, it is the correct ananalogy