Need help with Heb. 1:4-6

By inheiritance he has his name, I take it meaning that he is YHWH's son, and he can only inheirit something because of that fact. If he were God, how could he inheirit anything?

Begotten, I think this chapter of Hebrews is meant to explain that Jesus is above the angels, so it says: "For to which of the angels did He ever say:" and has "...became your father" or "begotten you" just as an example of why.

again I think is referring to another example, you'll notice that it has "again" in there twice. If you look in a NIV bible it might make this a little more clear:

Hebrews 1: (NIV)
4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father" ? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son" ? 6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him."

My 2 cents..

Hebrews 1 NIV:
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

I was trying to say that those passages <>< was asking about are trying to explain why Jesus is above the angels. If you'll note Hebrews 1:4. It is pretty clear, is it not?! The bible said it, I didn't!
So, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have been below them at one point when he was a mortal dying on the steak/cross! I don't see what that has to do with this topic anyway.

One other thing I'd like to point out is, why would God give us that verse if "we already know that Jesus is above the angels because he's GOD too." That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It would make that series of scriptures pretty usless.

Originally posted by layne
I was trying to say that those passages <>< was asking about are trying to explain why Jesus is above the angels. If you'll note Hebrews 1:4. It is pretty clear, is it not?! The bible said it, I didn't!
So, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have been below them at one point when he was a mortal dying on the steak/cross! I don't see what that has to do with this topic anyway.
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This has everything to do with the topic. Jesus is God but he emptied Himself of the right to act as God as told in Philippians chapter 2. As such he identified with man and that is why he is said to have been created lower than the angels.

One other thing I'd like to point out is, why would God give us that verse if "we already know that Jesus is above the angels because he's GOD too." That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It would make that series of scriptures pretty usless.

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I don't understand what you are trying to say by that statement.
What makes you think the book of Hebrews was written to us specifically?

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews not Gentiles.
The whole reason for the book is to show Christ's superiority to the priests of the Jewish nation.

Originally posted by Apologist

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews not Gentiles.
The whole reason for the book is to show Christ's superiority to the priests of the Jewish nation.

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No way.&nbsp; That's not the 'whole reason'.&nbsp; It was also written to explain the new covenant and the need for it to the Jews.&nbsp; It was written to people who understood the Law of Moses and why it was necessary for Jesus to redeem us back to God.&nbsp; There is a LOT to Hebrews (ex: there is no longer a need to sacrifice because Jesus is the final sacrifice).

have you examined the entire chapter. i find when im struggling with verses, reading the entire context in which the verses are found really aids in understanding.

Originally posted by layne
Hebrews 1 NIV:
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

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Did you just point out that the Bible places the "Last Days" as days that took place 2000 years ago?

Cool!

Originally posted by &lt;&gt;&lt;

by inheritance - How can Jesus inherit anything?
begotten You - When was the Son begotten? Was He begotten more than once?
again - Is there any significance to this word?

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The Jews had the highest opinion of angels and even associated them with God. On their own ground Paul proves to them that Jesus is God, to be worshiped by angels heb 1:6. Read more&nbsp;and you will see what Paul was trying to do.

begotten= Ps2:7. Prophecy fulfilled. Just another trans to help you see.

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

(again)

And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, "Let all the angels of God worship him."

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Originally posted by Blade
The Jews had the highest opinion of angels and even associated them with God. On their own ground Paul proves to them that Jesus is God, to be worshiped by angels heb 1:6. Read more&nbsp;and you will see what Paul was trying to do.

begotten= Ps2:7. Prophecy fulfilled. Just another trans to help you see.

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

(again)

And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, "Let all the angels of God worship him."

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Well what did Paul do?

Sample Hebrews 1:5 (NIV)
For to which of the angels did God ever say, ...

Psalms 2:7-9
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
You will rule them with an iron scepter;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

This refers to the actual Messiah. The Messiah is not an Angel. Therefore the question Paul asks is not a question an answer can be found to.

In contrast Jesus revealed:
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. (Rev. 21:1 NIV)

There Paul simply is overruled by Christ. This passage does not work either way.

Sample 2

Hebrew 1:8 (NIV)
But about the Son he says,
&nbsp;"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
&nbsp; and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

No one spoke about any Son in Psalms 45:6-9

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
from palaces adorned with ivory
the music of the strings makes you glad.
Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.

This is a wedding song. It refers to one King and his God. You may choose to believe this to be otherwise, but in no fashion did Paul prove anything here to a well learned Jew.

Also the Jews are forbidden to worship angels or to accept them as gods; otherwise they disobey the first of the Ten Commandments.

Originally posted by &lt;&gt;&lt;
Hebrews 1, NKJV
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
"You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You"?
And again:
"I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son"?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
"Let all the angels of God worship Him."

I would like to receive comments upon the bold words in the passage above. What do those words mean? How shall I understand them?


by inheritance - How can Jesus inherit anything?
begotten You - When was the Son begotten? Was He begotten more than once?
again - Is there any significance to this word?

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How can Jesus inherit anything?

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When was the Son begotten? Was He begotten more than once?

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Jesus is the Son of God and by virtue of this relationship, he inherit's his possition.&nbsp; We should not confuse the issue with our limited, mortal understanding of time.&nbsp; The Bible makes it very clear that Christ was there with God in the beginning.&nbsp; Ex: Jn 1:1.

He was begotten when He was manifested in the flesh in Mary's womb.&nbsp; Just because he was not litteraly born the Son of God until this time, does not mean that he was not the Son of God before.&nbsp; Remember, the trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are eternal.&nbsp; They exist outside of time.

NO angel has ever been "begotten" in this manner...they were all created by God.&nbsp; Christ, on the other hand, always was.&nbsp; Christ was not created and was begotten only once.

The significance in the word "again" in v6.

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

There are coma's in this verse.&nbsp; Read the bold above only.&nbsp; "Again" is stressing what God said the angels were to do.&nbsp; The part not in bold, is giving a time when the bold portion occurred.&nbsp; Read on to vv7 &amp; 8 to understand further.

In v7, we are told that the angels were made to be ministers.

In v8, we are told that "unto the Son (note the big "S") he saith, Thy throne O God, is forever and ever:"&nbsp; Things to notice about this verse:&nbsp; "the" Son.&nbsp; God did not say "a" son.&nbsp; "Thy throne O God"&nbsp; God said that THE SON has a throne and that he is God and His throne is forever".&nbsp; Not also the last two words of v8..."thy kingdom".&nbsp; No angel rules in this way, but Christ does!

Remember too, that Paul is relating to the Hebrews what God said about Jesus.&nbsp; The Hebrews thought that Jesus was just a prophet at best, Paul is telling them that he is more than this.&nbsp; Remember that the Hebrews, although they did not "worship" angels (they are prohibited from worshiping anyone or anything other than God) they held them in highest esteem because they were FROM God.&nbsp; Paul is relating to the Hebrews that God holds Jesus in greater esteem than the angels becaue He is God's son and the angels are God's created servants.

Having established this, he (Paul) begins Ch2 with "Therefore"

Since someone brought it up, lets look as some verses in Heb 2...v7, 8a&nbsp; "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels..." God wrapped him in flesh.&nbsp; The Hebrews saw the angels superior to man because they were spirit and so close to God.&nbsp; "thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the work of thy hands:&nbsp; Thou has put all things in subjection under his feet."&nbsp; Yet being inferior flesh, all things which are created are under him.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should tast death for every man.

Read this verse carefully.&nbsp; Between the two statements in bold, we see WHY "Jesus, crowned with glory and honour" was "made a little lower tan the angels"...to suffer death.&nbsp; Also the end of the verse gives us the why, He (Christ) was made flesh.&nbsp; This was done so that he could die.&nbsp; Angels are imortal and cannot die.&nbsp; God can destroy them, and he will some, at the final judgment.&nbsp; But fleshly man, he dies.&nbsp; If Christ did not become flesh, he could not have bled and died on the cross for to pay our sin-debt.&nbsp; All the OT sacrifices made by the Hebrews pointed to this payment in blood.&nbsp;

Look at Heb 9:8-12 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:&nbsp; Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.&nbsp; But Christ being come an hight priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.&nbsp;

The Hebrew sacrifices had to be repeated (Heb 10 makes this clear), Christ's eternally attoning sacrifice was once for all (eternal).

Heb 9:22-24 (Christ had to bleed and die) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.&nbsp; It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens shoud be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.&nbsp; For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Hebrew high priest had to make a sacrifice of an animal to enter into the holiest of holies within the tabernacle.&nbsp; Christ is both the sacrifice and the high priest.&nbsp; Note too, that the shedding of blood is required in these sacrifices for the remission of sins.&nbsp; Could Christ have shed HIS OWN blood as stated in v12 if he were not flesh?&nbsp; The holiest of holies in His case, is heaven where he makes constant intersession for us with God the Father.&nbsp; (Hebrews 10 amplifies this further...)

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