Why do you think atheists are not Christians?

mulimulix · Jun 18, 2011

Before anything, I just want to let it be known that I did not come up with this question, it is something I saw asked on another website which I thought was a very good question.

So basically, I would like places to be switched (if you will); to ask Christians why they believe atheists or any non-Christians do not believe in Christianity, rather than asking the atheists (i.e. me) themselves.

NvxiaLee · Jun 18, 2011

The primary reason that Atheists are not Christians is because we live in a society that teaches people to be Atheists.

mulimulix · Jun 18, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
The primary reason that Atheists are not Christians is because we live in a society that teaches people to be Atheists.

Explain...?

NvxiaLee · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
Explain...?

If you were raised in Saudi Arabia, you'd be Muslim. Did they teach you to be a Christian in public schools? Does the media teach you to be a Christian? No, they teach you to be Atheists. Maybe not explicitly, but a bright Atheist knows that something can be taught without being explicitly taught.

Even most American Christians are Atheists in their thinking and behavior. Their Christianity is nothing more than fading family tradition. Their churches are social clubs and their services are therapy sessions. It's about them, not God.

mulimulix · Jun 18, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
If you were raised in Saudi Arabia, you'd be Muslim. Did they teach you to be a Christian in public schools? Does the media teach you to be a Christian? No, they teach you to be Atheists. Maybe not explicitly, but a bright Atheist knows that something can be taught without being explicitly taught.

Even most American Christians are Atheists in their thinking and behavior. Their Christianity is nothing more than fading family tradition. Their churches are social clubs and their services are therapy sessions. It's about them, not God.

I don't understand. Are you saying you think the media should teach Christianity?

razeontherock · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
I would like ... to ask Christians why they believe atheists or any non-Christians do not believe in Christianity

I think the reasons are as unique as the individual, but surely there must be some common ground? I have spent much of my time on CF probing this very question, esp when first joining; and there were many more atheists posting here then. (Hmm, that didn't come out right ^_^

but some here no doubt remember some events in that time frame, and that a mass Exodus followed)

I have only found 1 exception to my following statement:

unbelievers have a distorted understanding of Scripture. Yes, this includes "former Christians." Even those that think they served Faithfully for decades. I must comment this has nothing to do with intelligence, as I know of more than 2 who say it was reading the Bible that turned them away from Christianity more than anything else, both were highly capable, and at least one of those displays intelligence far above "the average poster" here.

Other than the one exception to this 'rule,' I have encountered one other unbelieving poster who also displayed (once) a good understanding of one difficult Scriptural issue.

Considering the sample size, I find this to be statistically significant. I will also point out that of the many who claim other reasons like Christians being hateful, criminal, or confusion of Doctrine among various denoms, that upon probing they display ... a distorted understanding of Scripture on the very issues they cite as problematic.

I do not conclude this is a "single issue," but I do propose this is a single solution. IOW, to know Him is to Love Him. This is my experience

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
Before anything, I just want to let it be known that I did not come up with this question, it is something I saw asked on another website which I thought was a very good question.

So basically, I would like places to be switched (if you will); to ask Christians why they believe atheists or any non-Christians do not believe in Christianity, rather than asking the atheists (i.e. me) themselves.

First Christians know to be a Christian, the first step is the belief that God does exist. It is almost an impossible thing to believe there is not a God but some people apparently think they come to this conclusion regardless how illogical it is. The Christian explanation for people not believing in God is that these unbelievers are fools. The Bible teaches these people are so disliked that God sends them strong delusions so that they go ahead and believe lies. In the Bible the prophits and Apostles did not waste time preaching and debating with atheist or individuals who worshiped a different God other than dabar (Hebrew) or logos (Greek).
Many good things can be learned about life from other philosophies of life but only logos, the Christ, can be learned by the Holy Spirit. Really, it is that simple.

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
If you were raised in Saudi Arabia, you'd be Muslim. Did they teach you to be a Christian in public schools? Does the media teach you to be a Christian? No, they teach you to be Atheists. Maybe not explicitly, but a bright Atheist knows that something can be taught without being explicitly taught.

Even most American Christians are Atheists in their thinking and behavior. Their Christianity is nothing more than fading family tradition. Their churches are social clubs and their services are therapy sessions. It's about them, not God.

The idea that most Americans are atheist is very faulty thinking. It is ratioanlly almost impossible to be an atheist and for this reason, there are very few free thinkers who are atheist, with or without a religious background.

razeontherock · Jun 18, 2011

If I might refine the above comment to be a little less inflammatory and a little more accurate:

GadFly said:
The idea that most Americans are atheist is very faulty thinking. It is rationally almost impossible to be a [hard] atheist and for this reason, there are [relatively] very few free thinkers who are [hard, convinced] atheists, with or without a religious background.

Improved?

Biker Angel · Jun 18, 2011

I think it is Because Satan has them blinded to Gods truth and maybe the way they were brought up. I was brought up in the church since I was 3 years old so I never didn't know who Jesus is. If someone is not brought up in the church and their parents are not Christians, then I can see them having a problem with the whole God/Christianity thing, although there are some exceptions.

Most Americans have heard the gospel in one form or another but reject it for a number of reasons. Personally I am not in any hurry to try and convince any atheists that there is a God, and trying to argue with them about it is a big waste of time since God has given them over to Satan.

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

razeontherock said:
If I might refine the above comment to be a little less inflammatory and a little more accurate:
Improved?

Well maybe, perhaps but the Bible does teach that the intolerance God has for sin does include doubt that God does exist and that he really does and did mean what he said was truth. There is very little tolerance for unbelief in God. He tolerates and forgives all sins but there is no forgiveness for unbelief.

There is of course that a person can always come to his senses and believen in God and could then be forgiven. I do not intend to take all mercy away from him but he is on dangerous footing. Oops! There he goes, down, down, down.

razeontherock · Jun 18, 2011

Well for an unbeliever to believe, would be repentance right? Part of forgiveness for any sin?

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

razeontherock said:
If I might refine the above comment to be a little less inflammatory and a little more accurate:

Improved?

well, that did not take long. I think the statement is best the way I said it. I am not concerned if the atheist, humanist and liberal is inflamed because of a defense of Christ. These guys surly are not timid when they sow seeds of doubt. These people are not tolerant of Christian beliefs and if they have the gall to come on a Christian forum, they should expect to receive our strongest and best argument against their efforts to create doubt. Christian premises are the most reliable in logic and debate of all premises given in the secular world. How do you think these premises laid down by scriptures and the God of scriptures are less than accurate? I would be interested in your answer. Thanks, however, for your effort to improve my post.

Lokke · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
Before anything, I just want to let it be known that I did not come up with this question, it is something I saw asked on another website which I thought was a very good question.

So basically, I would like places to be switched (if you will); to ask Christians why they believe atheists or any non-Christians do not believe in Christianity, rather than asking the atheists (i.e. me) themselves.

atheists are not Christians becuase they do not have faith that Jesus h e is son of God.

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

razeontherock said:
Well for an unbeliever to believe, would be repentance right? Part of forgiveness for any sin?

Yes, of course, I give him that mercy but to come to Christ one must first believe God does exist. You are not allowed to doubt this fact. That is the reason we do not see many secular scientist, secular humanist, and liberal politicians coming forward to claim Christ as their God and savior. Some do of course, but not many.

The reason for this is that those who can not see God from the cosmological view can not comprehend the ontological view of reality. These are without excuse even though God sends them strong delusions so they would believe a lie. You find this explanation in the first few chapters of the Epistle to the Romans by Paul. Atheist and humanist, one and the same, are not looked at favorably by the scriptures and there seems to be less mercy for their way of thinking than any other way of thinking. For this reason alone, we who believe need to stand firm if for no other reason than to shake them awake to the ontological world of Christ and the logos.

The idea here is that secular thinking, atheist-secular-humanist reasoning, is perverted and not the reasoning of Christ and his followers thinking. We are the ones that have the reasoning process right on the Premise and theirs is off target. Let'm get inflamed. It could save them as their only hope rest in their changing their minds about God.

razeontherock · Jun 18, 2011

GadFly said:
How do you think these premises laid down by scriptures and the God of scriptures are less than accurate? I would be interested in your answer.

Hmmm, I think there may be confusion as to the scope of my attempted improvement upon what you posted. I suggested 2 qualifiers: hard and relatively.

1) "Hard" wrt to atheism would mean the definite belief that there is no God. This is definitely what Scripture speaks to, right? And there are some like that on CF, but most are not. I see most as saying they see no reason to believe, and I've seen many come out and say that they would believe if they saw good reason to.

I find this to be ... reasonable

I'll also point out that many (though surely not all) are quite young and lack the experience you and I have the benefit of. Then there's the aspect of strong and compelling evidence, which G-d began giving me 35 years ago at the age of 11. I have yet to encounter any atheist of any age who has had any such experience.

2) "Relatively" wrt to your comment of there only being few atheists, is helpful IMHO. The sheer raw numbers of atheists are large numbers! Yet as a %, they are few, at least in this Country. So relatively few is more accurate, I think.

3) I don't see how any of this impinges upon any Scriptural premise.

mulimulix · Jun 18, 2011

GadFly said:
The idea that most Americans are atheist is very faulty thinking. It is ratioanlly almost impossible to be an atheist and for this reason, there are very few free thinkers who are atheist, with or without a religious background.

Rationally impossible? Perhaps you haven't heard many atheist arguments...

GadFly said:
well, that did not take long. I think the statement is best the way I said it. I am not concerned if the atheist, humanist and liberal is inflamed because of a defense of Christ. These guys surly are not timid when they sow seeds of doubt. These people are not tolerant of Christian beliefs and if they have the gall to come on a Christian forum, they should expect to receive our strongest and best argument against their efforts to create doubt. Christian premises are the most reliable in logic and debate of all premises given in the secular world. How do you think these premises laid down by scriptures and the God of scriptures are less than accurate? I would be interested in your answer. Thanks, however, for your effort to improve my post.

I agree that if an atheist goes on a Christian Forum, they have a responsibility to listen to the Christian arguments. That would be completely biased not to.

Lokke said:
atheists are not Christians becuase they do not have faith that Jesus h e is son of God.

Taking the literal approach, i guess.

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

razeontherock said:
Hmmm, I think there may be confusion as to the scope of my attempted improvement upon what you posted. I suggested 2 qualifiers: hard and relatively.

1) "Hard" wrt to atheism would mean the definite belief that there is no God. This is definitely what Scripture speaks to, right? And there are some like that on CF, but most are not. I see most as saying they see no reason to believe, and I've seen many come out and say that they would believe if they saw good reason to.

I find this to be ... reasonable I'll also point out that many (though surely not all) are quite young and lack the experience you and I have the benefit of. Then there's the aspect of strong and compelling evidence, which G-d began giving me 35 years ago at the age of 11. I have yet to encounter any atheist of any age who has had any such experience.

2) "Relatively" wrt to your comment of there only being few atheists, is helpful IMHO. The sheer raw numbers of atheists are large numbers! Yet as a %, they are few, at least in this Country. So relatively few is more accurate, I think.

3) I don't see how any of this impinges upon any Scriptural premise.

There is only one definition of God and that definition is so big that the verbal and written definition can not be exhausted. We simply do not have the vocabulary in any language to explain God. In the Bible the term dabar and logos is the word for God and idolatry or building a false image of God is also to miss define God. God is big but he is absolute and the scriptures are not relative. Arguments of relativity do not apply to the logos for he does not change nor does the faith in his existence tolerate any doubt. You must believe that God is and that he rewards those who seek him, period. That is what the scriptures teach. It is a good thing that God requires us to believe in him and have no wavering in this belief. There is room for doubt in many things in religion but not in the substance and evidence of faith. You probably know well the scriptures to which I refer but if you need references, these can easily be provided.

elopez · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
Before anything, I just want to let it be known that I did not come up with this question, it is something I saw asked on another website which I thought was a very good question.

So basically, I would like places to be switched (if you will); to ask Christians why they believe atheists or any non-Christians do not believe in Christianity, rather than asking the atheists (i.e. me) themselves.

I think the atheist's reasoning itself dictates a disbelief in Christianity. Each has their own reason why they find Christianity to be false though I suppose some if not most share a general opinion. It seems to me that the problem of pain and suffering we experience and reconciling it with a loving God is shared by many atheists as to why they do not believe in Christianity.

GadFly · Jun 18, 2011

mulimulix said:
Rationally impossible? Perhaps you haven't heard many atheist arguments...

Click to expand...

The fact is that since I retired in 1991 it has been my hobby to argue with atheist, agnostics, and liberals over the God philosophy. I probably have been banned from more atheist forums that most Christians that have posted on CF. The atheist, humanist, and liberal theologians that post here are of little challenge to an experienced debater who uses the most primary premise in the universe as his premise for reasoning. Man's reasoning is indeed foolish in the eyes of God.

I agree that if an atheist goes on a Christian Forum, they have a responsibility to listen to the Christian arguments. That would be completely biased not to.

Click to expand...

It is true, atheist and liberal theologians really think Christians are stupid and they do underestimate our premise for reasoning. They think they are so smart but when they are confronted with arguments that come directly from the logos these guys are quicly humbled and/or go into a rant and rage. Their logic is without foundation and their reasoning lacks sufficient premises. If a Christian can not defeat the atheist in debate, he needs only to take time to explore the philosophy of Christ. Atheist and humanist have very little defense to offer on a Christian Forum because they are dead in error and facts. To believe otherwise is to show and reveal a weakness in the faith of Christ IMHO. I can do all things through Christ and the simplest of these things is to resist the Devil in debate. Ooops! There he goes in flight again, to hide I think!

Why do you think atheists are not Christians?

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