The evil 'D' word

Bron

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Oh yeah, one more important point is that it's not always men who are the perpetrators of abuse. Women can be very cruel, emotionally especially, and there are many reasons they can get away with abusing someone physically stronger than them. And worst of all is when the couple faces the authorities, the woman is automatically assumed to be the victim. Very dangerous if you are a man in that situation. Here's a link about this http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm
 
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Zebra1552

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No, I didn't ask if there was sin in divorce, I said that people shouldn't judge 'divorce' as a single entity of sin.

I don't follow where you are coming from in this post - it sounds like your family was better off without your father, but you still hold divorce as a sin?
It goes directly against the will of the Father. Of course it is a sin.

And if you're being hostile to me, don't. I have my own pain regarding divorce. I don't see why society should inflict further pain on people who have already been hurt enough to go through a divorce. That was my OP point.
And I don't see why something being a sin or not a sin would cause further pain unless the circumstances are ignored, which isn't the fault of society but of the individual doing the ignoring.
 
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Zebra1552

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Mat 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him, and to test him they asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?"
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,'
Mat 19:5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
Mat 19:6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."
Mat 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?"
Mat 19:8 He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery."


We've ignored this for far too long, and now that we have a high divorce rate, we have those who would excuse such a thing when the Bible's clear. Divorce is wrong and goes contrary to God's purposes, making it a sin, and Jesus even says that those who remarry, save those who were cheated on, commit adultery if they remarry. Divorce is very serious business, and as has been made clear in this thread, carries a ton of pain any way you slice it. So, you want to talk about pain? What about that pain that would have been avoided by solving the problem and seeking healing? I don't believe people ever reach a point where they cannot be saved.
 
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chris4243

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As someone else said, God is more compassionate than most people. God allowed for divorce because our hearts are hard -- that goes for both partners in a marriage, and you can't single-handedly have a relationship no matter how much you personally want to. If God gives permission for something, how can it then be a sin?
 
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Zebra1552

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As someone else said, God is more compassionate than most people. God allowed for divorce because our hearts are hard -- that goes for both partners in a marriage, and you can't single-handedly have a relationship no matter how much you personally want to. If God gives permission for something, how can it then be a sin?
What is sin?
 
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QuakerOats

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Mat 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him, and to test him they asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?"
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,'
Mat 19:5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
Mat 19:6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."
Mat 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?"
Mat 19:8 He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery."


We've ignored this for far too long, and now that we have a high divorce rate, we have those who would excuse such a thing when the Bible's clear. Divorce is wrong and goes contrary to God's purposes, making it a sin, and Jesus even says that those who remarry, save those who were cheated on, commit adultery if they remarry. Divorce is very serious business, and as has been made clear in this thread, carries a ton of pain any way you slice it. So, you want to talk about pain? What about that pain that would have been avoided by solving the problem and seeking healing? I don't believe people ever reach a point where they cannot be saved.
It's important to remember that Jesus' words were directed to a certain people, in a certain culture. Looking at them today, we can see that they don't account for a variety of scenarios, like spousal abuse, for instance. I know from experience that not all abusive people are willing to seek help or stick to it. I also know that in some cases, they are unable to adequately receive it. With that in mind, I look not to the letter of the law, but to the spirit of it. If I believe that God is love — that he is just and merciful, I cannot believe that he would expect a husband or wife to remain with their abusive spouse, particularly if said spouse does not or cannot change. Again, I speak from experience when I say that sometimes the divorce is the solution, as well as what provides the healing. Personally, I don't believe that divorce in and of itself is a sin. I believe the sin, if any exists, lay in the reason(s) for the divorce.
 
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Zebra1552

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It's important to remember that Jesus' words were directed to a certain people, in a certain culture. Looking at them today, we can see that they don't account for a variety of scenarios, like spousal abuse, for instance. I know from experience that not all abusive people are willing to seek help or stick to it. I also know that in some cases, they are unable to adequately receive it. With that in mind, I look not to the letter of the law, but to the spirit of it. If I believe that God is love — that he is just and merciful, I cannot believe that he would expect a husband or wife to remain with their abusive spouse, particularly if said spouse does not or cannot change. Again, I speak from experience when I say that sometimes the divorce is the solution, as well as what provides the healing. Personally, I don't believe that divorce in and of itself is a sin. I believe the sin, if any exists, lay in the reason(s) for the divorce.
Anything that is not in accordance with God's ideal is sin. We live in a fallen world where everything is tainted by sin. When you combine those two facts, divorce is a sin because it splits up what God joined together as the passage I cited indicates. Most people who are abusive were abusive before people started to notice, there is a pattern.

Divorce, in Jesus' words, is a solution for a situation of unfaithfulness- adultery. Really, to mention abusive spouses isn't much of a challenge to what I'm saying because adultery, in the Greek, also referred to idol worship. I daresay that if you're putting something ahead of your God-ordained marriage, that's idolatry. The only way you can remarry without being an adulterer is to have divorced due to:
G4202
πορνεία
inappropriate contenteia
Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar_10:11,Mar_10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
Part of Speech: noun feminine
 
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Bron:

Thank you for making a point that needs to be made. I'm surprised you have not taken more heat from the diehards who would rather forgive someone for killing their spouse rather than permit divorce. :)
 
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Criada

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